A Personal issue with the Etrac. Solution?

[Kevin B.]

Well, I got permission to hunt the yard of another old home. I get to the house this morning. Get geared up. Turn Etrac on and noise cancel. I use the Etrac coin pattern. I have my other settings at basically where I have seen posted here. Well....I make a few steps and there deosn't seem to be a NULLING issue. GREAT!!! I said to myself. Maybe I can hunt for silver without the nulling thing. First signal: 1-30.....12-34.....a goodie...likely a Minie Ball (bullet). This is going to get interesting. I mover forward and the blasted nulling starts. I say to myself: NOT AGAIN!!!!! Time for the XP Deus (it's charging now). I tried two tone ferrous but there is enough trqash in the ground to keep me from properly IDing silver, if there is any. I ordered a 5 inch Sunray coil from Bart at Bigboyshobbies. I am hoping that will help matters.
My beef with the Etrac is that it doesn't change ID numbers fast enough. I guess I will have to slow WAY down. But I swing it one way and its one number, swing it back, and its another number......that is if the number changes. Please understand that I am in training mode. I have been needing a DEEP coin getter and the Etrac has not let me down.....as long as there is no nulling. I use the Quickmask open screen sometimes and the sounds really come alive. A forum friend is also sending me a Sunray x8 coil to try. These old homes have silver at them. I (like everone else probably) wish that i could hunt in coin mode in all these yards . Maybe it's the big 11 inch Pro Coil seeing too much ground at once. But I will conquer this problem at add silver to my silver jar. The Etrac already found me two mercs in one hole. And a deep Indian Head that i doubt seriiously that my Deus would see. Anyway. I just needed a shoulder to bawl on. Bawling complete. Will go back to that home now.........after I dry my eyes. (laughing through my tears)

 

[ryanchappell]

I thought you meant there was something wrong with your machine and it was nulling when it shouldn't be. It is suppose to be nulling constantly when you are in a nail ridden site with the 11" pro-coil. It will also find good targets while it is nulling, if you swing really slow, 4-8 seconds per swing, assuming that you have a good pattern on. Don't try TTF while starting out, and probably go to a kinder site, and just hunt clad to get used to the machine. Sounds like you have learned that the VDI can be way behind. I often have to swing back over a tone and watch the VDI, or even pull the coil up and away from the high tone for it to even register. I hear the CTX is faster.

 

[Bell-Two]

Good advice with TTF you need to slow swing down, make sure fast on is activated, located in your expert settings. When you get a high tone narrow swing down to isolate the high tone, turn on the 90 degree and do it again. Even with pro coil you can isolate good stuff this way, a smaller coil will help but technique is important too. If you set up your TTF using the relic mode as your base make sure you set your tone response to normal, as the basic Relic mode will have you in smooth, set this under your Audio.

 

[DiggerODirt]

The E-Trac was meant to be swung MUCH slower than other detectors...Because of the filtering employed in the E-Trac, it cannot process targets as fast as some other detectors...You will be amazed at how much you can find in a 10'10' area if you grid and go "low and slow"...I have not fully mastered TTF and I am still earning the E-Trac myself...It can help if you are in an area with tons of iron trash.

HH,

 

[Big Boys Hobbies]

Yes Kevin, when the E-Trac goes into a nul slow WAY WAY down. You will get it and be speaking the language in no time brotha!

 

[EtracTom-AdirondacksNY]

Set it to Trash High and Ground Difficult. Even if it nulls it will still hit on the coins. Trash High setting lets the detector ring in on a good target and ignore the bad target next to or near the good one that is blacked out on your screen which is the nulling area. If you go Trash Normal later it will hit on the bad or bigger target be it good or bad.

Yes a smaller coil will also help in an extremely trashy spot as you stated the bigger coil sees more ground and targets under it so a small coil can sniff out a goodie or two that the larger coil might miss. But as you clean out an area of targets with the stock coil that reduces that effect I would say but ya never know till you try it out.

As stated swing smaller and slower and it won't miss much if at all and come at it from different dirrections to in an area to clean it out good.

 

[Kevin B.]

Awesome feedback. I read all he replies. Yes, I saw that the Audio went from Normal to Smooth (i don't care for the smooth audio at all). I am especially happy to hear that the Etrac continues to detect even though nulling is occuring. I was losing confidence with the nulling thing, but since reading the replies, I have it back. And thanks for the tips on how to set up the machine in difficult ground. I mean...MOST ground is difficult if it is going to contain old silver, ain't it? I mean....trashy. To a more or less degree. I've got some cleaner sites that i can hunt. I have pounded them with other detectors, but none that is as deep on coins (from my own experimenting in my test garden). The Etrac is a power hound. I had given up on it when I bought my first one. I was a newbie at detecting. My first Etrac was my third machine. My first was an ACE250. Second was an AT Pro. I didn't have the AT Pro a week before I bought the Etrac. I just couldn't resist how sweet those woodwind type sounds were. I appreciate everyones feedback.
I have one more question.....for now. Do most of y'all stick with the 11 inch Pro Coil??? I mean, if I can contiue hunting even if it's nulling, I can still work out those front yards and it sure is easier with an 11 inch coil than it is with a 5.5 inch coil. Happy Hunting!!!!! And Merry Christmas

 

[Digging w gus]

Take the etrac outside and burn it.

 

[ryanchappell]

Awesome feedback. I read all he replies. Yes, I saw that the Audio went from Normal to Smooth (i don't care for the smooth audio at all). I am especially happy to hear that the Etrac continues to detect even though nulling is occuring. I was losing confidence with the nulling thing, but since reading the replies, I have it back. And thanks for the tips on how to set up the machine in difficult ground. I mean...MOST ground is difficult if it is going to contain old silver, ain't it? I mean....trashy. To a more or less degree. I've got some cleaner sites that i can hunt. I have pounded them with other detectors, but none that is as deep on coins (from my own experimenting in my test garden). The Etrac is a power hound. I had given up on it when I bought my first one. I was a newbie at detecting. My first Etrac was my third machine. My first was an ACE250. Second was an AT Pro. I didn't have the AT Pro a week before I bought the Etrac. I just couldn't resist how sweet those woodwind type sounds were. I appreciate everyones feedback.
I have one more question.....for now. Do most of y'all stick with the 11 inch Pro Coil??? I mean, if I can contiue hunting even if it's nulling, I can still work out those front yards and it sure is easier with an 11 inch coil than it is with a 5.5 inch coil. Happy Hunting!!!!! And Merry Christmas

I leave the 8x6 SEF on 95% of the time, the other 5% I am too stubborn to stop detecting and put it back on when I realize I need to, but then again our soil is so bad that most of the silver coins I find average 3 inches in depth, so I am only missing coverage and not depth from the pro-coil, and the sites tend to be so junky that I don't need that.

 

[utahshovelhead]

Make no mistake about it...the e trac in many or most situations will not hit the same vdi numbers on every swing that passes over the same target WHEN THEY ARE DEEP. Do not expect it to read just like they say in the VDI guides. Instead swing the coil many times and look at the overall reading. For example; if I get a high pitch on one swing one direction and not on the next I i will;

1. check the depth if it's deep.....you need to zone in and pay close attention.
2. swing over the target multiple times looking to see if you get the same high pitch and close to the same numbers on 30 or 40 % of your swings. IF the target is really deep then I may only get two high pitch sounds and no matching VDIs but close a good part of the swings.
3. switch to quick mask and re check for a more pronounced average of numbers and sound.
4. go to pinpoint and check the depth again. does the target dial in as a small silver or coin size?

You learn to do all this in just a few seconds instinctively. BUT if you are where good old coins exist then it is the key to getting them out of trash ridden sites. I doubt many other detectors can do this as well at depth.

My point being is that the signal will not always be clear VDI numbers. The high pitch or tone is the predominant indicator for me and then I try to analyze the VDI and depth feel for a good decision. If you start digging too much trash then look for more consistent sounds and VDI say 50-60% and adjust to you feel comfortable success at that site.

In some instances if I get a high pitch just twice out of 8 swings, I will dig some dirt off the top just to check it again or will just dig it up to see. I only do that in a site where the digging is easy but the rewards are high. obviously not in a nice lawn.

Good luck.
PS u may want to put some stuff in a test and mess with your machine over it just to see.

 

[moonshine]

use your ears first, eventually you wont even bother looking at the numbers so much. use your ears use your ears use your ears. you want to hear a nice repeatable high tone for silver. it doesnt really matter what the numbers say.

you have to keep your trash setting to high and ground difficult or it will affect your discrimination. it will affect the etrac sounding off on silver (or any coins really) when iron is present. thats in the manual.

you need more experience to develop trust in the etrac. give it time. it takes a while. if you think nulling is bad, wait till you open up your screen and get a lot of falsing. that is a real challenge.

you might want to just slightly "open up" your discrimination pattern. perhaps just black out everything that has a CO of 20 and higher, and leave everything else open. nulling will be replaced with readings, and you will still be discriminating out (nulling) iron.

nulling is your discrimination working. you paid a lot of money for a good detector that discriminates and thats just the way it works. give it time.

i only own one coil, the stock coil.

 

[Kevin B.]

I just had it in my head that if the Etrac was nulling and there was no threshold, that the coil was dead to any other signals. So, I am gathering from y'all that even when the trheshhold is silent and I pass over, say, a mercury dime, I will STILL get a signal? Well, y'all have went to lengt6hs to answr that question and I appreciate it. I see no reason to switch from my big coil for the moment. I will contiue to swing real slow even though the machine is on a constant null (in some parts of the yard).

 

[ryanchappell]

I just had it in my head that if the Etrac was nulling and there was no threshold, that the coil was dead to any other signals. So, I am gathering from y'all that even when the threshold is silent and I pass over, say, a mercury dime, I will STILL get a signal?

Not always, but you still have a good chance of detecting the dime while the machine is nulling. The VDI may be off as well, and subsequent passes may lock in that VDI. Don't bet your life that you can find a MS 63 1916D Merc tossed in loose dirt with scattered nails, you might find it or you might not, but that is infinitely better than detecting nothing once the machine nulls.

I see no reason to switch from my big coil for the moment.

If you are in a site that nulls constantly you will benefit significantly from using a coil smaller than the 11" Stock DD coil. Again you are trading off depth, that is why I like the 8x6.

 

[Kevin B.]

I notice that while I keep swinging with the Etrac and their is NO threshold hum (nulling), I DO keep getting signals. But I just can't HELP but feel that the capabilities of the Etrac is impaired while it's nulling. But I need more time behind the Etrac. I have a 8inch Sunray coming tomorrow, on loan from a fine forum friend. I have a 5 inch Sunray here that I bought. Now,,,,,that rascal air tests amazingly well for a 5 inch coil. But depth is definitely impaired, like you said Ryan. And depth is the very reason that I need/want an Etrac. But with the 11 inch coil, one must be selective about sites. I have a lot of sites that I have hit with other detectors, where the iron is no thick. And it's on old historical district lots. I am starting to think of many places where the 11 inch coil can be used. Or even a wider one.
Is there a wider DD coil out there that is popular with Etrac-ists???? I would imagine that depth would be enhanced. Still loving my Etrac. Gonna take her out tomorrow for some swinging.

 

[Johnnyanglo]

Nulling implies iron and iron implies possible masking of non-ferrous desirable targets. While the iron is DISC's out and produces no audio it does zero the threshold. But if a non-ferrous target is being masked it is possible by attacking slowly from various angles to get the target to respond. If you dialed in too much Sens then you may get a false high-tone chirp from the nail, which is usually obvious as a non-ferrous is usually repeatable tones.

But, to be fair, the E-Trac is superior at getting the silver and ignoring the iron mostly due to the very low op freq - very dead to iron and yet very sens to silver. The ability to unmask is largely for that reason. Also, the detector doesn't null and also not null at the same time. Rather sequentially it will null and then report an audio - which may sound blended when it is two separate reports in quick succession.

The moral of the story - if you get nulls the iron may be masking something - slow down and investigate.

 

[AbsconditusArgentum]

Johnny,

You state nulling implies iron. With all due respect, doesn't nulling imply a discriminated target? So, does your statement above still hold? That is when in a null over a mixture of discriminated trash, will the silver break through as we'll? I have set myself up with the open pattern you recently posted on dank for TTF and look forward to putting it through the paces. I only have a couple hundred hours on the Etrac and have just recently been using TTF in the iron, though not with that particular pattern. Mostly open quick mask. TTF has proven to me that nickels really do exist. I soon will pick up a quicker unit for the iron, but I really want to test the Etrac thoroughly as well. Thanks for all of your informative posts on both of the forums!

Pete

 

[Johnnyanglo]

Nulling implies iron only in that it has driven the audio into a ferrous zone that, as you stated, is usually DISC'd out. In an open QuickMask screen there is no nulling and the iron will sound. Yet there is masking - you'd never know a coin was there thanks to the iron's stronger response.

If there is a non-ferrous target amongst the iron it is likely the iron has down-averaged the tone into a low ferrous grunt or null (DISC'd area). It is the iron that is responsible, so the only way to get the non-ferrous is to attack from various angles and see if there is a high chirp trying to break free out of the low grunts and nulling. Nulling is just a signal that you are in DISC'd iron and you better change your tactic or you'll just get nulls and miss whatever else might be there. When I hear that null I quickly attack the nulled center trying to tweak out something - if there is no joy, I move on.

With iron nails there is another problem, the sharp bends and points on nails will give a high chirp mimicking a non-ferrous target. You can't dig every wild high chirp so the best you can do is dig the signal that is repeatable, at least as you rotate around the target it should sound again even if it is intermittent. And yes, you are going to lose depth in iron. And yes you do need to go somewhat slower and use smaller coils to try and isolate that occasional high chirp amongst the iron.

There is a gravely mixed dirt parking lot in a park I was hunting that was chock full of rusty nail and some coins. Those nails were sounding off constantly - jumping out of null and into null and driving the TID wild.But by lowering the sensitivity some and going slowly from different angles the non-ferrous would occasionally pop through. You knew it was non-ferrous because it had a slightly less truncated high sound in TTF and would repeat from different angles better. I'm sure lots of non-ferrous was missed - masked by the ferrous, but it made for good practice and after an hour there it made the less dense iron sites seem like kids play, much more manageable after hunting such a horribly contaminated area. Listen to the audio intently (it is tiring) and when you hear something that is not quite the same tonal length as the machine gun iron chirps - dig it. Non-ferrous will be the tone that does not sound the same as all the other iron signals (hard to describe but it will be slightly different and the TID will usually jump differently too).

 

[ryanchappell]

I notice that while I keep swinging with the Etrac and their is NO threshold hum (nulling), I DO keep getting signals. But I just can't HELP but feel that the capabilities of the Etrac is impaired while it's nulling.

You are going to miss some good targets while it is nulling, but you will hear some as well. The E-Trac does this better than any other detector. Also the machine nulls on all discriminated targets. I have heard that the Compadre will find silver coins near the surface in junk that the etrac will not. It is always good to go back over a site with a different coil and a different detector. I would also suggest to go back at a cooler time of the year when the soil is soaked to its maximum.

But depth is definitely impaired, like you said Ryan. And depth is the very reason that I need/want an Etrac.

You think that you got the etrac for depth. You really got it because of separation. You got it because people are finding so much silver with it, and the reason is separation. ("See Trough")

Is there a wider DD coil out there that is popular with Etrac-ists????

Yes, by far the SEF 8x6 is that coil. G4E and several others use that coil a lot!