Fishnmaine
Active member
White's V3i Upgrade Notice
Here is a run-down of all the facts regarding the new V3i and the software upgrade. Sorry for the delay in posting this, but we were trying to get our distributors and dealers up to speed before posting public information. Many dealers get annoyed when their customers know more about the latest from White's than they do, and all this hit the forums about 2 weeks before we were ready.
What is V3i?
V3i is a follow-on model to V3, much in the same way we went from 6000 to 6000 Series 2, or Eagle to Eagle 2. V3 has been discontinued. The primary changes in V3i are:
- Support for Foreign languages (i -> international)
- On-board Quick Reference system
- Stereo mix-mode audio
- Polar analysis plot
- Prospecting analysis scan
- Single frequency salt tracking
- Several other minor improvements
It is true that we have discontinued the wireless data transfer and removed the recommended gain. See the explanation below.
V3i product information should be posted on the White's web site before the end of the day tomorrow (4/2
.
Can I upgrade my V3?
Yes, upgrades are free for any V3 originally purchased on/after Nov. 1, 2009. Upgrades are $100 for units purchased prior to Nov. 1. All upgrades also incur a $25 return shipping fee.
How do I get the upgrade?
Upgrades will be handled by the factory, plus several remote locations including our UK division. This information will be posted on our web site and updated regularly. Before shipping a unit for the upgrade, you should call first to get an estimated turn time. Springtime typically has our service centers busy with out-of-the-closet repairs so it may be best to wait to avoid delays.
Is there a deadline to get the upgrade?
Practically, no, there's no predetermined deadline. Realistically, don't expect to still be able to upgrade in 2020. But if you want to wait until hunting season is over, or wait to see what the user feedback is like, that's fine.
Why can't you send me the software so I can upgrade it myself?
When the V3 was first being drawn up (long before I came aboard), the concept of software upgrades was rejected. So, unfortunately, an easy method for user software upgrades (USB port) was not designed into the hardware. Special programming equipment is needed, and therefore the unit has to be sent in.
What if I don't want the upgrade, or don't like the policy of being able to inexpensively upgrade my detector?
Pretend like this never happened, and go enjoy your V3!
What if I want to update my detector to 1.3 instead of V3i?
We can still do this, but only at the factory.
Will there be any more upgrades for V3?
Don't know. Someone recently posted:
I read a post from Carl saying another upgrade won't be happening. Highly unlikely, as in "not at all."
Actually, the question was concerning another upgrade in 6 months. The odds of an upgrade in 6 months is right up there with jbow winning the lottery. That's not to say that there will never ever be another V3 upgrade, or that jbow won't actually win the lottery. But right now, we don't have plans for another upgrade.
Are there any hardware upgrades?
Sort of. V3 pod screws have a bad habit of stripping out, so we redesigned the plastic with metal inserts and machine screws. All V3i upgrades include a replacement pod shell whether needed or not, which includes a new keypad and screen film. If needed, we will also install a new set of headphone pads which are more durable. These are not the reason for November cut-off; we are eating the cost of all this and not asking our customers to pay an extra dime, as it should be. In fact, we have been doing this already on other V3 returns.
So why Nov. 1?
I originally argued that the upgrade should be free for post-Jan-1 buyers and a tiered pricing up to $199 for everyone else. Corky overruled and made it $100 and Nov 1. And the cutoff date actually has reason; it's when we rolled new secondary processor software into production, meaning that post-Nov-1 upgrades are much easier to do.
Why not make it free for everyone?
We have bills to pay, and developing software ain't free. Generally, PC software upgrades work the same way. The difference with V3 -- and I admit it's a rather painful difference -- is that you have to send it in for the upgrade. I wish it were otherwise. So does our service dept.
What do I need to send in?
We definitely need the main control unit and the wireless headphones (if you own them). We do not need the coil unless you want it checked out.
Is the upgrade worth it?
If you're on the fence, then wait and see what other users think of the features, and decide later. There is no hurry.
Will White's continue with a software upgrade policy for future detectors?
Carl's opinion: I believe that software upgrades make sense, at least for our top-end model. It protects value. Releasing a V3i without offering the upgrade would severely devalue V3, making a 98%-just-as-good V3 a bargain on the used market, as we've seen happen with certain competing detectors. This would hurt not only V3 owners but also White's ability to sell V3i. And really tick people off. Plus, considering the price point of V3, offering the upgrade was simply The Right Thing To Do. Whether we continue doing this in the future may depend on how this one goes.
Recommended Gain
V3 offered a recommended gain in the Sensitivity screen. Unfortunately, it was often overly conservative and the gain could easily be run higher without problem. Additionally, it became a method of testing loops which also wasn't necessarily a good indicator of loop quality, and many loops were returned to the factory which were perfectly good.
We've removed the recommended gain, and users should simply set the gain as high as they can and maintain stable operation. This is the same as any other detector.
Wireless Data Transfer & Dongle
Much ado has been made over this issue. When we released V3 I had intended to produce a dongle that would allow transfer of programs to/from a PC, and said so when someone mentioned this idea. In fact, I personally took this on, got the initial hardware working, and started on the software. Other priorities forced me to hand it over to another engineer, who got it mostly working.
However, we've run into two issues with this. One is that the transfer is slow and unreliable. Unless conditions are near-ideal, packets are dropped and, because the design of the RF module makes handshaking difficult, the whole transfer has to start completely over. Second, the release of V3i introduces a different program data structure that creates compatibility issues between machines. Dealing with this requires a lot more programming effort, both in V3/V3i firmware and in the PC software.
Unfortunately, we are a small company with a small engineering dept, and I have to make choices as to where our resources are spent. I decided that wireless data transfer was eating up too much time and not only halted the dongle but also dropped the feature from V3i. I know this has angered some people and I expected that. But given the choice between a troublesome feature that we probably won't continue using on future models, and some new developments that could fundamentally advance metal detecting, my choice was easy.
But I've learned a lesson from this: don't breathe a word about potential developments! Too many people hang their hats on it. So, I promise to keep everyone in the dark from now on.
Here is a run-down of all the facts regarding the new V3i and the software upgrade. Sorry for the delay in posting this, but we were trying to get our distributors and dealers up to speed before posting public information. Many dealers get annoyed when their customers know more about the latest from White's than they do, and all this hit the forums about 2 weeks before we were ready.
What is V3i?
V3i is a follow-on model to V3, much in the same way we went from 6000 to 6000 Series 2, or Eagle to Eagle 2. V3 has been discontinued. The primary changes in V3i are:
- Support for Foreign languages (i -> international)
- On-board Quick Reference system
- Stereo mix-mode audio
- Polar analysis plot
- Prospecting analysis scan
- Single frequency salt tracking
- Several other minor improvements
It is true that we have discontinued the wireless data transfer and removed the recommended gain. See the explanation below.
V3i product information should be posted on the White's web site before the end of the day tomorrow (4/2
.Can I upgrade my V3?
Yes, upgrades are free for any V3 originally purchased on/after Nov. 1, 2009. Upgrades are $100 for units purchased prior to Nov. 1. All upgrades also incur a $25 return shipping fee.
How do I get the upgrade?
Upgrades will be handled by the factory, plus several remote locations including our UK division. This information will be posted on our web site and updated regularly. Before shipping a unit for the upgrade, you should call first to get an estimated turn time. Springtime typically has our service centers busy with out-of-the-closet repairs so it may be best to wait to avoid delays.
Is there a deadline to get the upgrade?
Practically, no, there's no predetermined deadline. Realistically, don't expect to still be able to upgrade in 2020. But if you want to wait until hunting season is over, or wait to see what the user feedback is like, that's fine.
Why can't you send me the software so I can upgrade it myself?
When the V3 was first being drawn up (long before I came aboard), the concept of software upgrades was rejected. So, unfortunately, an easy method for user software upgrades (USB port) was not designed into the hardware. Special programming equipment is needed, and therefore the unit has to be sent in.
What if I don't want the upgrade, or don't like the policy of being able to inexpensively upgrade my detector?
Pretend like this never happened, and go enjoy your V3!
What if I want to update my detector to 1.3 instead of V3i?
We can still do this, but only at the factory.
Will there be any more upgrades for V3?
Don't know. Someone recently posted:
I read a post from Carl saying another upgrade won't be happening. Highly unlikely, as in "not at all."
Actually, the question was concerning another upgrade in 6 months. The odds of an upgrade in 6 months is right up there with jbow winning the lottery. That's not to say that there will never ever be another V3 upgrade, or that jbow won't actually win the lottery. But right now, we don't have plans for another upgrade.
Are there any hardware upgrades?
Sort of. V3 pod screws have a bad habit of stripping out, so we redesigned the plastic with metal inserts and machine screws. All V3i upgrades include a replacement pod shell whether needed or not, which includes a new keypad and screen film. If needed, we will also install a new set of headphone pads which are more durable. These are not the reason for November cut-off; we are eating the cost of all this and not asking our customers to pay an extra dime, as it should be. In fact, we have been doing this already on other V3 returns.
So why Nov. 1?
I originally argued that the upgrade should be free for post-Jan-1 buyers and a tiered pricing up to $199 for everyone else. Corky overruled and made it $100 and Nov 1. And the cutoff date actually has reason; it's when we rolled new secondary processor software into production, meaning that post-Nov-1 upgrades are much easier to do.
Why not make it free for everyone?
We have bills to pay, and developing software ain't free. Generally, PC software upgrades work the same way. The difference with V3 -- and I admit it's a rather painful difference -- is that you have to send it in for the upgrade. I wish it were otherwise. So does our service dept.
What do I need to send in?
We definitely need the main control unit and the wireless headphones (if you own them). We do not need the coil unless you want it checked out.
Is the upgrade worth it?
If you're on the fence, then wait and see what other users think of the features, and decide later. There is no hurry.
Will White's continue with a software upgrade policy for future detectors?
Carl's opinion: I believe that software upgrades make sense, at least for our top-end model. It protects value. Releasing a V3i without offering the upgrade would severely devalue V3, making a 98%-just-as-good V3 a bargain on the used market, as we've seen happen with certain competing detectors. This would hurt not only V3 owners but also White's ability to sell V3i. And really tick people off. Plus, considering the price point of V3, offering the upgrade was simply The Right Thing To Do. Whether we continue doing this in the future may depend on how this one goes.
Recommended Gain
V3 offered a recommended gain in the Sensitivity screen. Unfortunately, it was often overly conservative and the gain could easily be run higher without problem. Additionally, it became a method of testing loops which also wasn't necessarily a good indicator of loop quality, and many loops were returned to the factory which were perfectly good.
We've removed the recommended gain, and users should simply set the gain as high as they can and maintain stable operation. This is the same as any other detector.
Wireless Data Transfer & Dongle
Much ado has been made over this issue. When we released V3 I had intended to produce a dongle that would allow transfer of programs to/from a PC, and said so when someone mentioned this idea. In fact, I personally took this on, got the initial hardware working, and started on the software. Other priorities forced me to hand it over to another engineer, who got it mostly working.
However, we've run into two issues with this. One is that the transfer is slow and unreliable. Unless conditions are near-ideal, packets are dropped and, because the design of the RF module makes handshaking difficult, the whole transfer has to start completely over. Second, the release of V3i introduces a different program data structure that creates compatibility issues between machines. Dealing with this requires a lot more programming effort, both in V3/V3i firmware and in the PC software.
Unfortunately, we are a small company with a small engineering dept, and I have to make choices as to where our resources are spent. I decided that wireless data transfer was eating up too much time and not only halted the dongle but also dropped the feature from V3i. I know this has angered some people and I expected that. But given the choice between a troublesome feature that we probably won't continue using on future models, and some new developments that could fundamentally advance metal detecting, my choice was easy.
But I've learned a lesson from this: don't breathe a word about potential developments! Too many people hang their hats on it. So, I promise to keep everyone in the dark from now on.
Hey all, I thought this was all put to bed about is it right or wrong about the upgrade and cut off date and the price. Theres nothing going to change the descission whites made. I would really like these forums on the web to get back to the way they were before the v3i thing!! That was when we all posted finds and helped each other with detecting issues and questions etc. I just want us all to get along once more