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aa Battery's Race To 0.8v How Much Interest Is There?

MarkCZ

Well-known member
Here is the deal.
The other day I started what I would call a real world aa Alkaline Only battery drain test. The goal was to use a FIXED known load wired into a 1 slot aa battery holder with leads.
I used a 10watt 4.7ohm resistor for the load for each.
I checked the voltages out of the pack, then again under the load at startup. I started a stop watch as soon as the battery was inserted and then I just wait and monitor the voltage
until it drains to 0.8v (under load) and then I chart the results.
I have limited data so far but I do have some test results charted, and I still have at lest three different brands of batteries on hand to test, thing is the batteries are getting expensive.
So, my question is this, how much interest are there here for a battery race to 0.8 volts?

Below is my simple setup. Its also setup to test aaa's.
Mark
DSC06934.JPG
 
Last edited:
Julio, is this test used to figure out which brand batteries hold up under a load the best? If that's the goal then it would let people know which batteries are best to buy for their detectors.
 
still looking 52 said:
Julio, is this test used to figure out which brand batteries hold up under a load the best? If that's the goal then it would let people know which batteries are best to buy for their detectors.

Well, yea, how long does brand X take to drain to 0.8v, right now I have two generic brands that took about 8.5 hours to drain to 0.8v and the Ray-O-Vac High Energy took 10hrs & 28minutes
which surprised me a little.
I started out with a 8.8ohm resistor but the test was taking near 20hrs per battery, so I started over with the 4.7ohm load.
So, next is the Energizer MAX, I should be able to get it on the drainer tomorrow.
I have a Family Dollar Homeline that's about to finish up in just a little bit its been draining for 7hrs & 44minutes and its @ .931 volts
So, I've been going this the battery race to 0.8
I'm also open for suggestions about the battery comparisons too?
The chart will include weight, length, and diameter. It will list price per cell on the bulk batteries that I bought.

Mark
 
Yes!!! That will be "news you can use" as our local city council person likes to say. Look forward to your results!!
 
GA1dad said:
Yes!!! That will be "news you can use" as our local city council person likes to say. Look forward to your results!!

Thanks, I was going to do the test to some degree with or without any forum interest. But with some interest here I'll try to keep up with specific details.
This happened to me today, I put a BRAND NEW out of a 4 pack Energizer MAX in the drainer and I had to leave and do some work so I took my set stop watch with me
figuring it would last at lest 8hrs even the cheap generic batteries I've tested went 8hrs. Well I rushed home with the stop watch showing 7hrs & 53minutes and the
battery was DEAD! So, I checked the date on them and they are labeled 12-2029.
So, I set up another one and I'll have to be sure and be around to check it at lest the 5 hour point.
I'll get the chart posted in the next few days.
Mark
 
1.. Here on the Metal detecting forum we are interested in how long a AA power-up a detector. If we used just ONE detector and shared it with 10 people, the same detector and coil, we could ask for their 'run-time; and ask them to monitor it. However, we would get 10 different answers. Some close but some might be longer or shorter than 'average.' Why? Because:

• Some wowuld use full Sensitivity and others might use little or moderate settings.

• Of the 10 people we could also have different Discrimination settings and that could effect the battery use and drain.

• They would be hunting different sites and engaging a few targets here and there for less drain, or they could be hunting a very trashy site and getting frequent hits on multiple targets, thus, different drain on the battery.

• Additionally, they wouldn't hunt until battery exhaustion with a fresh battery. Some would put in a 30 minute to 2 hour hunt and someone else would make a day-long hunt out of the time. Different battery drain and different periods for them to 'restore' a bit.


2.. Another consideration is that detectors take more than just 1 AA battery and we also know that we could check any battery pack when a detector is perhaps half-way through a set and, if we measured each battery individually, we'd likely notice some a little weaker and some a little stronger than what they all might 'average.'


3.. I have detectors powered by 2-AA's, 4-AA's and 8-AA's and it would be best to use a minimum of 2 'Tests' per 'set' of batteries. The AA alkaline battery has grown in popularity and I have at least 18 flashlights, of different brands and power levels [size=small](drain levels)[/size] here in my home, my vehicle, detecting gear tote, etc.. Some get used periodically and some just stand-their-post where I have them in case there is a power outage and they need to be used. I check them ALL periodically, but use the change from Standard Time to Daylight Savings and then back again to double-check them all. I look at their brightness and performance and then I inspect their batteries and test them ... individually ... and if they are starting to get weak I replace the whole set with brand new batteries.


Back in the late '80s, when I worked for Compass Electronics, I had the time and opportunity to set up a test device just for the purpose of checking battery life. Used a design to hold a search coil in the device and turn it on to make a sweeping motion, back-and-forth, with the coil positioned about 4" above some test objects. An iron nail was used, a copper penny and a nickel [size=small](referring, naturally, to US coins)[/size]. That made the test samples the same, at the same distance from the coil and all search coils would be 'swept' across the targets at about a 4" distance.

All detectors would have a set of headphones plugged it, which is how most detectors are used, plus it eliminated the louder noise we could hear. The headphones were adjusted for full volume.

The detectors were adjusted for the highest Sensitivity level and the absolute Minimum Disc. level.

Thus, all batteries I tested were done using a metal detector set up at high Sensitivity and the lowest Disc. being worked continuously over three sample targets, one being ferrous,

In testing batteries, I started with fresh batteries, and didn't monitor the individual battery to a measured Voltage, but instead used them hard, without stop, until the detector [size=small](thus the batteries)[/size] simply quit and it shut down. I would then remove the batteries at the time the detector stopped working and measured each battery. I made note of the total continuous 'run-time' from start-to-stop. Also, since I didn't have a set-up to test each individual battery during the testing process, once the detector died I would measure each battery and note the Voltage level.

I would 'Test' each brand of battery twice, and then 'average' all of the data.

Start-to-quit operating time, Divided by 2, for running the test twice, to get an 'average' of the particular battery brand and model and expected time of serviceable operation. Let's say the detector was powered by 8-AA batteries of Brand R and it ran for 44 hours. Divide that by the number of batteries [size=small](:geek:[/size] and we see each battery 'averaged' 5½ hours of run-time. But if a different battery, Brand N also ran it for 60 hours with just 8-AA batteries, then those batteries 'averaged' 7½ hours of run-time per battery.

Then you can compare the 'averaged' 'Run-Time' of the different battery brands, and from that also figure in the cost for those individual batteries.

I know that back then, 31 years ago, I tested some off-brand Heavy Duty batteries that out-lasted and cost less then the worst 'popular-brand' Alkaline and that was Ray-O-Vac. Those used to be the worst and, to this day, I still don't buy that brand. Today we have a ot of often-used Alkaline batteries that provide very good service life and can be very affordable as well. I have also found a less-known brand battery with comparable life at a lower cost which are often made by a major battery manufacturer.

The benefit of that testing I did is that it wasn't putting an artificial load on the batteries, but was an actual test using a metal detector and coil, with comparable settings, and operated continuously over test targets and that made the battery use more comparable. And with even more brands and models made today than back then that operate on AA batteries, you could run 2-tests for each brand and model detector, then compare not just the battery efficiency per battery, but also compare the operating efficiency of different makes and models of detectors.

Just some thoughts, and I considered doing this kind of test this winter but would need to buy a camera and stopwatch/clock to be able to look and see the time it was when the detector shut-down as the battery supply died.

Monte
 
Monte said:
1.. Here on the Metal detecting forum we are interested in how long a AA power-up a detector. If we used just ONE detector and shared it with 10 people, the same detector and coil, we could ask for their 'run-time; and ask them to monitor it. However, we would get 10 different answers. Some close but some might be longer or shorter than 'average.' Why? Because:

• Some wowuld use full Sensitivity and others might use little or moderate settings.

• Of the 10 people we could also have different Discrimination settings and that could effect the battery use and drain.

• They would be hunting different sites and engaging a few targets here and there for less drain, or they could be hunting a very trashy site and getting frequent hits on multiple targets, thus, different drain on the battery.

• Additionally, they wouldn't hunt until battery exhaustion with a fresh battery. Some would put in a 30 minute to 2 hour hunt and someone else would make a day-long hunt out of the time. Different battery drain and different periods for them to 'restore' a bit.


2.. Another consideration is that detectors take more than just 1 AA battery and we also know that we could check any battery pack when a detector is perhaps half-way through a set and, if we measured each battery individually, we'd likely notice some a little weaker and some a little stronger than what they all might 'average.'


3.. I have detectors powered by 2-AA's, 4-AA's and 8-AA's and it would be best to use a minimum of 2 'Tests' per 'set' of batteries. The AA alkaline battery has grown in popularity and I have at least 18 flashlights, of different brands and power levels [size=small](drain levels)[/size] here in my home, my vehicle, detecting gear tote, etc.. Some get used periodically and some just stand-their-post where I have them in case there is a power outage and they need to be used. I check them ALL periodically, but use the change from Standard Time to Daylight Savings and then back again to double-check them all. I look at their brightness and performance and then I inspect their batteries and test them ... individually ... and if they are starting to get weak I replace the whole set with brand new batteries.


Back in the late '80s, when I worked for Compass Electronics, I had the time and opportunity to set up a test device just for the purpose of checking battery life. Used a design to hold a search coil in the device and turn it on to make a sweeping motion, back-and-forth, with the coil positioned about 4" above some test objects. An iron nail was used, a copper penny and a nickel [size=small](referring, naturally, to US coins)[/size]. That made the test samples the same, at the same distance from the coil and all search coils would be 'swept' across the targets at about a 4" distance.

All detectors would have a set of headphones plugged it, which is how most detectors are used, plus it eliminated the louder noise we could hear. The headphones were adjusted for full volume.

The detectors were adjusted for the highest Sensitivity level and the absolute Minimum Disc. level.

Thus, all batteries I tested were done using a metal detector set up at high Sensitivity and the lowest Disc. being worked continuously over three sample targets, one being ferrous,

In testing batteries, I started with fresh batteries, and didn't monitor the individual battery to a measured Voltage, but instead used them hard, without stop, until the detector [size=small](thus the batteries)[/size] simply quit and it shut down. I would then remove the batteries at the time the detector stopped working and measured each battery. I made note of the total continuous 'run-time' from start-to-stop. Also, since I didn't have a set-up to test each individual battery during the testing process, once the detector died I would measure each battery and note the Voltage level.

I would 'Test' each brand of battery twice, and then 'average' all of the data.

Start-to-quit operating time, Divided by 2, for running the test twice, to get an 'average' of the particular battery brand and model and expected time of serviceable operation. Let's say the detector was powered by 8-AA batteries of Brand R and it ran for 44 hours. Divide that by the number of batteries [size=small](:geek:[/size] and we see each battery 'averaged' 5½ hours of run-time. But if a different battery, Brand N also ran it for 60 hours with just 8-AA batteries, then those batteries 'averaged' 7½ hours of run-time per battery.

Then you can compare the 'averaged' 'Run-Time' of the different battery brands, and from that also figure in the cost for those individual batteries.

I know that back then, 31 years ago, I tested some off-brand Heavy Duty batteries that out-lasted and cost less then the worst 'popular-brand' Alkaline and that was Ray-O-Vac. Those used to be the worst and, to this day, I still don't buy that brand. Today we have a ot of often-used Alkaline batteries that provide very good service life and can be very affordable as well. I have also found a less-known brand battery with comparable life at a lower cost which are often made by a major battery manufacturer.

The benefit of that testing I did is that it wasn't putting an artificial load on the batteries, but was an actual test using a metal detector and coil, with comparable settings, and operated continuously over test targets and that made the battery use more comparable. And with even more brands and models made today than back then that operate on AA batteries, you could run 2-tests for each brand and model detector, then compare not just the battery efficiency per battery, but also compare the operating efficiency of different makes and models of detectors.

Just some thoughts, and I considered doing this kind of test this winter but would need to buy a camera and stopwatch/clock to be able to look and see the time it was when the detector shut-down as the battery supply died.

Monte

Thanks Monte for your post!

Lots of valid thoughts to consider,
At this point I'm thinking the battery's life under a load and compared to others under the exact same load and how longs it takes to reach a measured point of drain is what it is, I mean if a person ran HOTTER settings all the test batteries would have shorter operation time.
My first test I was using an 8.8ohm resistor and batteries like the AllMax lasted 19 hours, then I retested them under the 4.7ohm load and they lasted 8hrs and 43min. and the same went for two other batteries, that is to say half the test time.
Right now in my test thus far the Ray-O-Vac High Energy did the best @ 10hrs and 28min. (but I've only just started the test)
And right now the second Energizer MAX crapped out @ 5hrs and 18min That's worthless! I don't think I can find flea market garbage battery that wouldn't make that mark.
If I get enough forum interest I will probably expand the test and probably repeat the test for a bit of a average and maybe even get setup to test 9 volt batteries.

And I'm like you with the Ray-O-Vac batteries, in the past they were the bottom of the heap battery, and that's why I was surprised (SHOCKED) when it was still above 0.900v at 9 hours!!
Tomorrow I'm going to test an "EBL" Professional Care Battery and after that I'll probably post the chart of what I've tested so far.
I can't believe a Family Dollar Homeline lasted 3hrs longer than the Energizer MAX did, I was certain it would do at LEST as good as the Ray-O-Vac.
I will have to test a Duracell COPPER TOP, my plan was for the Energizer Bunny and the Duracell to be the SCORE cards for the standard.
Will see where this goes, One Bite At A Time.
Thanks again!
Mark
 
And their manufacturing specs were not strict: I had one detector that loaded like a flashlight, and the batteries were too oversized to drop in.
(And these were new from the store, not some sitting around I had in storage.)
One other thing: alkalines can be recharged with new technology chargers (though manufacturers may state this voids warranty.) But do NOT take them
after doing this and put them immediately in a detector: place them in a plastic container for a few days to see if they leak-often they do-and it can be a disaster.
 
Ed Moody//K & B Slocum Books out of Pasadena Texas was my distributor from the '70's until he moved on to others.
(Famed arty projectile hunter Tom Dickey was supplied Whites under an exclusive contract that also stated no mention or photos of other detector brands,
and a close personal friend of Ed's. Some how he got a photo of Tom, with a Compass and used it in a magazine article....and Ken White Sr. almost dropped Tom over it.
Some of the old timers still joke about it, but Tom never did.) :rofl:
One thing on batteries: make, model and type of detector make a big difference too. My Super Pro was a off resonance very high drain unit that used a (2) 9-volt battery that was a little over 2X
the size of a regular 9-volt, and cost 10X as much-and had to be bought at an electronics supply store. A regular 9-volt would work...for maybe an hour (compare that to a Shadow)
so going that route mean having a box full on hand, and a screwdriver to remove the back plate....so I always used the specified type.
Silence search really saves on batteries too.
 
still looking 52 said:
Guys, you Are amazing! My brain would explode if I tried doing the stuff you guys do.

I'm trying to find at lest a couple of more 4.7ohm (exactly) resistors so I can test more than just one battery a day (I've got another stop watch coming today, its listed as out for delivery) , I mean 6 to 10 hours is really a battery a day, I did get help EARLY this morning
and put an EBL on the drainer, and then went back to bed, I felt like the wife when she gets up early on Thanksgiving to get the turkey in the oven.
The "EBL" has been draining now for 6hrs and 45min. and its at 1.020v so its already beat the wrapper off the Bunny batteries!!

Mark
 
vlad said:
And their manufacturing specs were not strict: I had one detector that loaded like a flashlight, and the batteries were too oversized to drop in.
(And these were new from the store, not some sitting around I had in storage.)
One other thing: alkalines can be recharged with new technology chargers (though manufacturers may state this voids warranty.) But do NOT take them
after doing this and put them immediately in a detector: place them in a plastic container for a few days to see if they leak-often they do-and it can be a disaster.

My chart is going to include the battery's,
Weight,
Length,
Diameter,
and I'm willing to include any other information in the chart that anyone see's a need for.

Mark
 
vlad said:
And their manufacturing specs were not strict: I had one detector that loaded like a flashlight, and the batteries were too oversized to drop in.
(And these were new from the store, not some sitting around I had in storage.)
One other thing: alkalines can be recharged with new technology chargers (though manufacturers may state this voids warranty.) But do NOT take them
after doing this and put them immediately in a detector: place them in a plastic container for a few days to see if they leak-often they do-and it can be a disaster.

Your right about recharging Alkalines and I have a charger that does, its called Re-Nuit BUT! my brother Ron was actually doing that but some would charge and some
wouldn't, and then he had some with a good date that he recharged and they leaked and the detector had to have the battery contacts replaced. Not to long after that I bought
him some of the Tenergy rechargeable's and a little smart charger for his birthday and after that he gave up on recharging standard batteries.

Mark
 
As someone pointed out, and I have found myself, some batteries fit more snugly then many others even to the point of not letting a battery door close. Therefore, I think you have the right idea Mark to measure the length and diameter of each battery. I don't think battery weight is an issue. It's more important to know whether it's going to fit or not fit.

The next thing to consider is to be fair and get an average operating time to report. You could take one brand and model battery that is wimpy and have the testing look bad. And it can work the other way, wear something like a rail vac battery happens to do well. In order to get a good average, I think you need to test at least three or up to five batteries that are all the same brand and style.

I know that's going to take some time on your part, and if everybody wants to have some useful results then I think they should be patient while you run these tests and then compile the results. It's possible to have one brand of battery that could give you a big spread in runtime if you measure 3 different batteries. And yet another brand you could test three batteries and they would all have very close, very consistent run times.

So I think it would be wise to test at least three batteries of each brand, and then show the run time for each battery and then the average run time for all three. Far more useful information.

I have a lot of batteries because I watch for a sale or if I happen to come across as sale and I can buy up some Alkaline very cheap, whatever run time I get will be very satisfactory for what I paid. Of course I also have some of the more popular brands that we all like to use or at least have heard of. I do know that none of what I have are energizer's or Rayovac.

I have a tote in My Den that has my extra batteries, hundreds, and extra flashlights that are new. If you would like to do a test of batteries, and and figure out individual run time and then the average run time, let me know and email me your mailing address. I would gladly send you 4 batteries from each brand that I have on hand.

I'd have to get in my tote and look but I probably have six different brands right now, and I will post the name of the brand batteries I have that I will send to you to test. Of course that's if you're up to testing four batteries of each brand.

Then you can take a look at what I'm sending you, see what you have in the way of four batteries of each, and perhaps some other Forum followers would be glad to provide for each of some different batteries that you and I don't have now. Just test a good assortment of batteries, which is at least something to do during the winter. It's mostly Cabin Fever season for me.

So if you're interested in doing a more extensive tests using four batteries of each brand, to provide that individual and averaged information. I can pull some brand new batteries out of my tote and get them in the mail to you Monday morning.

Just a thought and, like I said before, I'm interested in seeing how the different brands of batteries will perform.

Monte
 
China counterfeits detectors, batteries too.
I've see bulk Duracell that said Made in USA on the box; but inside was a piece of paper that said Made in China.
https://i.stack.imgur.com/el1Upl.jpg
And depending on the "metal detector" (I use that term loosely) :poke:
the brand and type of "battree" is of no consequence.
A friend, acquired.... an Electroscope, and after being left on for 1 year, hitting battery test showed an almost full charge. It never did point to the several pounds of silver a few feet away.
(This is one of the early pioneers of detecting that has published a significant number of detector tests/general articles and even had a column or two
in some magazines, now in his 80's.) :heh:
 
Here is how my chart is shaping up for now!
 
vlad said:
China counterfeits detectors, batteries too.
I've see bulk Duracell that said Made in USA on the box; but inside was a piece of paper that said Made in China.
https://i.stack.imgur.com/el1Upl.jpg

Okay, this tip will most likely fall into play with the TOP NAME BRANDS. Thanks!
Just a little bit ago I went to LOWE's and picked up another package of 8 Energizer MAX AA's (the others I got from Family Dollar)
like the others I bought they're dated WAY out there 12-2029 BUT! the ones from Family Dollar were made in Poland, the ones from LOWE's
are made in the USA. Everything else about the battery and the packages is the same, even the little details.
I've got one of the ones I got from LOWE's on the drainer right now. These cost $.93 a cell, add tax and round off a few pennies and these are $1.00 a piece!!!!!
 
Also, I'm more than willing to post pictures of things along the way that if for anyone that's needs more information, or just to SEE something.
If these NEW batch of batteries from a different source don't do ANY BETTER than the others these are NOT going to be on my shopping list for sure!
And NOWHERE on these batteries or the packages is the name Eveready?? When did they stop with that brand name on the bunny batteries?
 
Looking things up online you find some other places Eveready are made is China, India, UK, and "other places" (unspecified.)
I cannot find out if Eveready still owns Energizer.
(Its stated online some companies sold off certain lines to other companies too. It seems there is an effort to obfuscate who owns what and where manufactured, too.)
I buy Japanese brand alkaline batteries here-they are cheaper than US brands, and the same batteries in the US are about 3X the price.
(I get about 3 days off Eveready Heavy Duty and they are as much as the Japanese Brands--not a good choice.)
 
Monte said:
As someone pointed out, and I have found myself, some batteries fit more snugly then many others even to the point of not letting a battery door close. Therefore, I think you have the right idea Mark to measure the length and diameter of each battery. I don't think battery weight is an issue. It's more important to know whether it's going to fit or not fit.

The next thing to consider is to be fair and get an average operating time to report. You could take one brand and model battery that is wimpy and have the testing look bad. And it can work the other way, wear something like a rail vac battery happens to do well. In order to get a good average, I think you need to test at least three or up to five batteries that are all the same brand and style.

I know that's going to take some time on your part, and if everybody wants to have some useful results then I think they should be patient while you run these tests and then compile the results. It's possible to have one brand of battery that could give you a big spread in runtime if you measure 3 different batteries. And yet another brand you could test three batteries and they would all have very close, very consistent run times.

So I think it would be wise to test at least three batteries of each brand, and then show the run time for each battery and then the average run time for all three. Far more useful information.

I have a lot of batteries because I watch for a sale or if I happen to come across as sale and I can buy up some Alkaline very cheap, whatever run time I get will be very satisfactory for what I paid. Of course I also have some of the more popular brands that we all like to use or at least have heard of. I do know that none of what I have are energizer's or Rayovac.

Okay Monte, I've now got enough battery holders and enough 4.7ohm resistor to be able to setup four batteries at a time. So, I'll kick this over to a PM and give you my list of brands I have on hand and then if you want you can mail me one I don't have.


I have a tote in My Den that has my extra batteries, hundreds, and extra flashlights that are new. If you would like to do a test of batteries, and and figure out individual run time and then the average run time, let me know and email me your mailing address. I would gladly send you 4 batteries from each brand that I have on hand.

I'd have to get in my tote and look but I probably have six different brands right now, and I will post the name of the brand batteries I have that I will send to you to test. Of course that's if you're up to testing four batteries of each brand.

Then you can take a look at what I'm sending you, see what you have in the way of four batteries of each, and perhaps some other Forum followers would be glad to provide for each of some different batteries that you and I don't have now. Just test a good assortment of batteries, which is at least something to do during the winter. It's mostly Cabin Fever season for me.

So if you're interested in doing a more extensive tests using four batteries of each brand, to provide that individual and averaged information. I can pull some brand new batteries out of my tote and get them in the mail to you Monday morning.

Just a thought and, like I said before, I'm interested in seeing how the different brands of batteries will perform.

Monte

Okay Monte, I've now got enough battery holders and enough 4.7ohm resistor to be able to setup four batteries at a time. So, I'll kick this over to a PM and give you my list of brands I have on hand and then if you want you can mail me ones I don't have.

Thanks Again
 
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