William1221
Member
Is it true you can swing the sovereign faster in all metal then in discrimination mode ? Is the depth of detection better in one mode than the other ?
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All metal swing
- Thread starter William1221
- Start date
Critterhunter
New member
You can swing it faster in Silent Search, or at least that's what Minelab says. Not sure about All Metal but yea probably you can swing faster in that mode since it's not running it through discrimination circuits. Never tested that. I tend to swing faster than most Sovereign owners, somewhere near a medium sweep speed is what I'd call it. But I pay attention to any slight change or null in threshold, and will stop and then slow down over that spot to see if something is there. If something is there I'll do fast/tight wiggles over it or shorter 3 to 6 inch medium speed or slower sweeps to investigate it. Figuring out wiggles or short sweeps as well as slow to fast speeds for this is very important along with coil placement. Different sites want different investigation methods. More often than not a 3 to 6" constant short sweeping at about a medium to maybe faster speed gives the best ID. Other times it's got to be real slow, and other times a very tight/fast wiggle will produce best ID. Don't assume a junk signal is just that until you've figured all the above out and investigated the target with various placements of the coil (walk it up and down the target doing the above methods). If you don't check out each and every null or "junk" signal this way you'll never start popping the real deep coins at the outer fringes.
William1221
Member
Critterhunter thank you for your reply According to the manual there are 3 types of nulls , first is a null then no change in threshold ,should be dug , then the null and the threshold goes up a in sound, last is the null that is followed by threshold going down in tone. I dig the first 2 should I be digging the ones that have a low threshold?
Critterhunter
New member
I've never read that. You say you found it in the GT manual? Can you be more descriptive in what they say, and I'll try to chime in when that's done.
I investigate most target nulls because sometimes it has to do with my sweep speed on a deep target. If I can't pull up a signal out of the null when going back over the target slow or with the tip of the coil or with the wiggle I move on. Has anyone here actually dug a good target at depth that would only produce a null where there was only a threshold change? I've tried it on the beach but so far it's been iron of some sort or hot rocks.
William1221
Member
page 16 of the manual third paragraph from the bottom starting with the word Also , read the note on the bottom of the page it talks about a "blanked signal but the threshold does not change. thanks
the GT may signal a little past the target but it will signal. You really only have to swing slow if targets are deep or if there is trash.... and most places with good targets also have plenty trash.... so you have to swing slower... but I have not found that you have to crawl along as slow as I once thought, perhaps I was already a slow swinger and misunderstood what people meant by slow.
J
J
adam in cal
New member
The threshhold disapears or ''Nulls'' for several reasons, as we all know it ''nulls'' over an iron nail... The Term Null is really a bogus thing! , when the signal from the coil is interruped the threshold vanishes, obvious on a shallow target because the threshold vanishes and is replaced with a high or low tone depending on the target in question...On a deep coin the threshold will also vanish or nearly vanish but the coin being deep, while interruping the signal it is not strong enough to make the sov give a real audible signal.. it rather just makes the threshold vanish ..a nail will do the same exact thing........Listen to the ''pitch'' of the threshold when it comes back ,that is the key (it has been for me )....some very deep silver coins barley make the threshold rise ,it doesnt quite disapear but slightly rises in pitch...then when you try to pinpoint it seems as though may be falsing...I dont personally have any use for hunting in all metal but certian sites lend themselves better to the ''reverse discrimination'' technique
Neil
Well-known member
crazyman said:
I have many times over the years, usually its a coin, thats if Im understanding you correctly. Mostly Ive not been able to pick up the target again by just going back over the same spot, Ive had to rechange the pitch by whatever means and then try and locate the threshold change again. change pitch by swinging the coil over a boot, scoop, whatever, just get a different pitch to recheck the spot. once thats done, I will balance the coil near the threshold change by moving it next to it and keeping it stationary a few seconds then slowly sweep over it and relocate it better. to wide of a swing may not bring back the target again so super short sweeps are key in relocating, at least thats my experience, and this is beach hunting.
to comment on the sov null: null is just the loss of threshold on a disced out target, as the detector reads it, so a deep read may not be accurate. people often equate the null to just a reaction to iron but this of course is not true. the sovs disc at 0 setting is biased to a degree against iron, both in an out of iron mask. you cannot drop it down in disc like an etrac or explorer to accept iron, so you will always null more with the sov. its time consuming to investigate them constantly, but worth it if its a productive spot. especially with gold being so valuable now
depth messes with ID on all detectors Ive ever used.
William1221
Member
According to the manual Adam is correct, I have given the page and other info in a previous post. Does anyone check the signal if the threshold nulls and then lowers? I know this is suppose to be a ferrous signal but we r talking deep here. The reason I was inquiring about the all metal swing is that I am a beach hunter and cover a lot of ground swinging faster would be to my advantage. I believe Critter is correct , when using all metal the machine does not have to go thru all the processing information that is has to in discrim.
Critterhunter
New member
I seem to remember somebody (Tony?) who was using Shaun's amp relate that when he's tested deep coins with the amp off they might only null, but when he switched the amp on the coin would sound off properly. I would assume that would then mean that a very deep coin that the machine can still "see" yet is past being "fringe" might only make the threshold null. From my experience the coin doesn't even have to be all that deep if the ground has some level of higher mineralization. In that case two things can cause the null- Too fast OR SLOW of a sweep speed, or too high OR LOW of sensitivity. I keep hammering away at this but at least for me in my higher mineral sites even if the machine is stable at a real high sensitivity setting it will overload or choke on the ground minerals and null the coin out in certain situations. As said, going too fast or even super slow can often cause this as well. It all depends on the conditions at that site and your sensitivity setting as to how fast or slow you need to go to get best ID. I'm finding with the 12x10 it wants sensitivity via my buried dime test higher than typical settings for the stock 10" coil or 15x12, yet this setting is still a good bit lower than what is max stability for the machine. I'm sure in low mineral sites max stable sensitivity will also be where the buried dime test wants it.
I don't normally dig a null. Instead I do either fast/tight wiggles or more often I find that short 3 to 6" slow sweeps seems to derive best ID/audio for me. The lower the sensitivity the fast it normally wants and tight wiggle, the higher the sensitivity the slower it wants and wider short sweeps instead. If I can't produce some form of "iffy" coin signal from the target doing all the above then I move on when land hunting. Often too the target will only sound off if I crawl the coil to one exact spot. Some times this ends up with the target being directly under the coil, but more often than not for whatever reason (probably minerals or trash) I find that the tip of the coil is the best part to use to try to pull good IDs out of targets. If I go over it with the center of the coil it will null more often than not, and I'm talking about targets that did indeed turn out to be deep coins. Not exclusive to the SEF coils either, the stock 10" coil also prefers the tip or tail for some reason when I'm trying to get a deep null to sound off. It doesn't have to have trash around it either. Not sure why that is.
Some of the deep coins I've dug (mainly wheats, since I've of course dug more of those than silvers at worked out spots) will only sound off from one direction and say with the tip. The target might be a total null or a very bad signal from other directions, yet you'll know by just how perfect the response is that one way that it's got to be a coin. It's too perfect most of the time to be iron or other trash causing a false coin hit.
The hard part on many of these deepies is pinpointing them. Often discriminate is the only one that will work. Other times PP mode is the only one that will sound off in the same spot from two directions. And still yet other times I can only PP it from one direction. When two directions are telling you the target is in two different places then I go by the direction that gives the best ID. Don't assume it's got to be iron if it's PPing in PP mode in a different spot than what discrimination says. Yes, often iron will do that, but I've found deep coins do this as well some times. I more go by just how good the audio/ID is from the one direction and dig those even if it's a complete null or trash signal from others. Once I find that I'm digging it and do not concern myself with if PP mode tells me it's not in the same place and could be iron. More often than not it turns out to be a coin. I'd say I dig more deep one way coins by using the audio/VDI as my deciding factor than I do iron now that I've learned that. The perfect coin ID one way is often a very tight spot and the coil must be kept at a specific speed and place and with the right amount of wiggle or short sweeping. When you do that you'll see if it's a perfect 10 in terms of audio/ID versus iron or other junk. Also, watch the negative numbers. Coins will hit the basement here and there but there is a pattern to it and they normally will start steadily climbing again in a less random fashion than iron. Iron will hit negative numbers more and has less ryme or reason to it's climb most of the time. I've been fine tuning the above methods more lately and am amazed at how little iron I'm digging while I'm digging a good bit of deep coins (mostly wheats since they are more numerous).
Do not rely on PP to tell you if it's dig worthy. If it sounds great and perfect one way then ignore that and PP it in whatever way possible. I often mix PP mode and discriminate mode to compare where I should dig. Some times I have to PP in discriminate from one direction but then use PP mode in the other because it's nulling or bad all over the place in discriminate from the other. My main choir or problem to tackle on real deep coins is not getting fooled by iron any more, it's figuring out exactly where I need to dig the plug when they are giving me issues from different directions. The tip of the coil is the key, as well as comparing discriminate to PP mode.
I don't normally dig a null. Instead I do either fast/tight wiggles or more often I find that short 3 to 6" slow sweeps seems to derive best ID/audio for me. The lower the sensitivity the fast it normally wants and tight wiggle, the higher the sensitivity the slower it wants and wider short sweeps instead. If I can't produce some form of "iffy" coin signal from the target doing all the above then I move on when land hunting. Often too the target will only sound off if I crawl the coil to one exact spot. Some times this ends up with the target being directly under the coil, but more often than not for whatever reason (probably minerals or trash) I find that the tip of the coil is the best part to use to try to pull good IDs out of targets. If I go over it with the center of the coil it will null more often than not, and I'm talking about targets that did indeed turn out to be deep coins. Not exclusive to the SEF coils either, the stock 10" coil also prefers the tip or tail for some reason when I'm trying to get a deep null to sound off. It doesn't have to have trash around it either. Not sure why that is.
Some of the deep coins I've dug (mainly wheats, since I've of course dug more of those than silvers at worked out spots) will only sound off from one direction and say with the tip. The target might be a total null or a very bad signal from other directions, yet you'll know by just how perfect the response is that one way that it's got to be a coin. It's too perfect most of the time to be iron or other trash causing a false coin hit.
The hard part on many of these deepies is pinpointing them. Often discriminate is the only one that will work. Other times PP mode is the only one that will sound off in the same spot from two directions. And still yet other times I can only PP it from one direction. When two directions are telling you the target is in two different places then I go by the direction that gives the best ID. Don't assume it's got to be iron if it's PPing in PP mode in a different spot than what discrimination says. Yes, often iron will do that, but I've found deep coins do this as well some times. I more go by just how good the audio/ID is from the one direction and dig those even if it's a complete null or trash signal from others. Once I find that I'm digging it and do not concern myself with if PP mode tells me it's not in the same place and could be iron. More often than not it turns out to be a coin. I'd say I dig more deep one way coins by using the audio/VDI as my deciding factor than I do iron now that I've learned that. The perfect coin ID one way is often a very tight spot and the coil must be kept at a specific speed and place and with the right amount of wiggle or short sweeping. When you do that you'll see if it's a perfect 10 in terms of audio/ID versus iron or other junk. Also, watch the negative numbers. Coins will hit the basement here and there but there is a pattern to it and they normally will start steadily climbing again in a less random fashion than iron. Iron will hit negative numbers more and has less ryme or reason to it's climb most of the time. I've been fine tuning the above methods more lately and am amazed at how little iron I'm digging while I'm digging a good bit of deep coins (mostly wheats since they are more numerous).
Do not rely on PP to tell you if it's dig worthy. If it sounds great and perfect one way then ignore that and PP it in whatever way possible. I often mix PP mode and discriminate mode to compare where I should dig. Some times I have to PP in discriminate from one direction but then use PP mode in the other because it's nulling or bad all over the place in discriminate from the other. My main choir or problem to tackle on real deep coins is not getting fooled by iron any more, it's figuring out exactly where I need to dig the plug when they are giving me issues from different directions. The tip of the coil is the key, as well as comparing discriminate to PP mode.
I never realized this either... my ground keeps the Sov in null a LOT. I have been trying your advice of running the sens at around 2:30 but I still null a lot. I am going to lower it a little more or run "AUTO" and swing slower to try and keep a null and try checking some of these nulls that are not random but either don't change the tone or only slightly raise it... I wonder, and I bet, on a deepie that just nulls, it might begin to rise with a small sens increase and a wiggle BUT it is only a guess...
http://www.minelab.com/__files/f/4062/4901-0051-1.1%20Inst%20Manual%20Sovereign%20GT%20website.pdf
Note: If a target signal seems to have "blanked", but the threshold hasn
http://www.minelab.com/__files/f/4062/4901-0051-1.1%20Inst%20Manual%20Sovereign%20GT%20website.pdf
Note: If a target signal seems to have "blanked", but the threshold hasn
I will work with this some, especially the one way hits. Mine have all turned out to be cut square nails, they always sound and read like a coin and they will not double beep, at least not at this particular site... I always dig them though becuse I just can't leave them alone... I will try the tip of the coil. I will raise and lower sens. I will try faster and slower swing speeds to see if I can get any more clues to the target being a cut sq nail instead of a coin... then again, i'll still dig because even if it double beeps and is a tight signature like a 1" cut sq nail... I will of course wonder if it is a coin on edge, laff.
J
J