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At what depth does your "good tone" become an "iffy tone"?

Steve(OR)

New member
Of course, many factors come into play here (local soil variations, nearby trash, etc.) - but generally speaking, all factors being the same, what is your average, maximum depth for a good, solid tone?

Also, to narrow this down additionally - I'm referring to relatively small, conductive targets (i.e. coins/rings), not deep, large iron targets.

Thanks!

SCM
 
From my short experience I would guess around 7-8" is starts... Maybe earlier or later. Just a guess.
 
Like you said, a lot matters on teh ground conditions and what coil your using.. In perfect ground I have gotten Large cents at 14-15 inches.. and they were quiet but pretty solid hits, at least enough to make you know something was there.. iffy in iron and iffy in clean are really two different sounds... but on the average trash free ground I would say with correct setting that a dime will drop to iffy in the 8 to 10 inch range. just depends on how you define iffy I guess, I have checked others iffy signals they weren't sure of and to me they were no brainers, a definite dig.. add in trash and or bad ground and that will drop to around 7 inches or even less... my guesses above are stock coil, wide open iron mask and ferrous audio, gain at 7.. I really thing the ferrous audio helps on the deeper ones
 
Jim upstate NY said:
just depends on how you define iffy I guess, I have checked others iffy signals they weren't sure of and to me they were no brainers, a definite dig..

Perhaps the initial question should have been:

What's the difference between an "iffy" tone and a "good" tone? Well, I think it's easy to define a good tone - anyone with an Explorer (in this case) and some coins/rings/etc. can quickly learn what a "good" tone sounds like.

However, when this tone degrades, due to the many factors already mentioned...
  • ...how does one know if this tone is good or bad?
  • ...what are the characteristics of a positive iffy tone - "... a definite dig" as you say?

I think this is the most important skill to have with the Explorer, as the shallow goodies are becoming fewer and farther between every day.

Any enlightenment is certainly appreciated - as are the previous responses from Jim upstate NY, Eu_citzen and Weasel_Loader

SCM
 
For me, the iffy signal is the one that bounces back and forth from right to left along the top edge of the screen. I use Conduct sounds, so it all sounds the same but the of course I have to watch the cursor. My deep Barbers and Mercs were almost all bouncing along the top. I have hear of people digging deep silver with the cursor staying on the top left half of the screen. I usually pass those up as in the past they have been in fact iron and not silver.

Basically, I just look for a good repeatable signal and as long as it bounces at least to the right half of the top screen, then I'll dig it.:biggrin:
 
1. ...how does one know if this tone is good or bad?

Most of the time I look if it is repeatable from at least one angle with similar results (tones)
I have found a few silver coins that only sounded good from one angle so I dig them!

Actually I just go by sound, if it gives I sound I dig it. Yeah thats right I dig all none ferrous. As long as I can stand it then I go for high pitched tones only when I'm tired. Both weak and strong high pitched tones of course.



2. ...what are the characteristics of a positive iffy tone - "... a definite dig" as you say?

I actually look where on the screen it jumps to mostly, either the lower or the higher parts of the screen.. Depending on how tired I am (see answer above) I'll dig all iffy's. When tired I only go for those which come up mostly in the higher part of the screen.
(right part of the screen, I don't dig iron on the beach where I mostly hunt, selected coins & Jewelry)

I use an EX II so there isn't no confusion about that.

Good Hunting!
Eu
 
I dig mostly from sound then i check those with the size of the target and depth. There is a lot of times you can eliminate those deep targets just on depth and size. Even in Ferr, iron will sometimes have that silver sound without doing several checks... like removing some soil.
 
Thanks for all that responded - helped me narrow down what I was really in search of, but clumsily asked for in this thread. :rage:

After some serious use of the "Search" feature this morning, here's what I was looking for:

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?19,232964,233284#msg-233284

Reposting here for your convienence:

Charles (Upstate NY) said:
Go deep...

The depth at which the target ID starts jumping around will vary depending on the site conditions and is normal. While the ID may jump around at least you get something on the deeper targets.

Mineralization, iron, and trash aside moist soil is generally better than bone dry or sopping wet soil. Sopping wet soil can be worse than bone dry soil if rusty nails are plentiful.

Here's a deep target tip...lets say a target at a given site 5 inches deep gives you a rock solid ID, 100% coin response. At 7 inches deep the ID begins jumping around, 80% coin response and 20% other. At 9 inches deep things are getting iffy, 50% coin response and 50% other. At 11 inches deep it sounds like crap, 20% coin response and 80% other or worse.

The question of the day is, what is this "other"? Where does "other" ID and more importantly do you have "other" discriminated out? Absent any rusty nails or trash other = ground mineralization. Mix 8 parts ground mineralization with 2 parts deep coin and what do you get? A bouncing cursor that hangs mostly over in the iron area of the screen with an occasional bounce towards the coin area. Sometimes you don't even get that, the worst of the worst stay in the iron area around iron mask -14 range. How many people have dug a crappy signal that sounded mostly like iron, recover a coin then sweep the hole with the probe and big coil and find there was no iron nearby? I have many times.

This behavior seems to hold true across a wide range of soil types, only the depth at which targets start to get iffy varies. In some parts of the US things get iffy at only 6 inches, in other parts of the country they can get a solid ID at 12. Most of the sites I hunt things get iffy starting around 8 inches for a small cent sized target.

So if you are hunting deep targets in the iffy detecting range running little or no iron discrimination can help. Nulls are sticky and stretchy, the machine doesn't like to let go of a null. If the weak coin signal is being pulled over to the iron side of the screen and the machine is nulling how will you hear the coin?. Nearby iron only makes matters worse. Conductive tones is of course counterproductive to this type of deep hunting. Iron sounds high, so do the coins and the cursor is bouncing all over the place. That doesn't give you much information to go on. With ferrous tones what you hear is the 20% high coin tones peeking and fluting through the low 80% iron tones. I mean lacking a target ID all you really have to go on is the tones, the pitch and shape of the signal as you sweep it.

I'll let some more air out of the digital screen approach, worn silver dimes can ID down in the indian head range and worse. Half dimes and 3 cent pieces also ID lower on the screen. Indian head cents can ID all over the dang place depending on how corroded they are. Even the mighty barber half dollar can get yanked well off its mark by a rusty crown cap directly overhead. The worse silver coin I dug was a worn smooth half reale which the cursor locked on steady to around iron mask -14 and stayed there. Yet I was hearing mostly a high silver tone in ferrous (another vote for ferrous over conductive)which freaked me out a little as I thought at the time that should not happen. That only goes to show you that tones rule and do not always agree with where the cursor is landing.

Lastly, I know it can be frustrating not finding deep coins when you think they are down there. But if coins are down there deep there will also be trash items down there, lead toys, junk rings, brass shell casings, and the like. I highly recommend that you go out and forget all about what the target is and just concentrate on how deep it is. Hunt using your depth meter. If you get a deep target at the depth you think an old coin should be, if its not a nail dig it up. A couple hunts like this can really expand your understanding of the machine.

Charles

Thanks again and HH (... and Happy Thanksgiving as well).

SCM
 
Charles and I hunt and set-up alike..since the begining with my new eplorer...I found the forum and relized I was heading in the right direction with this new toy...I have read his stuff after using the explorer for a few years and relized I must be doing something right....lots of good reading....and tips....
 
Agreed, mattockman... in fact, my first setup was using what Charles suggested on his site. The only real change I've made from it was increasing the Gain (a la JamesND and Bryce and others).

I think I got pretty good at IDing target tones up to about 6-7 inches. But nothing of real value any deeper... which makes one wonder:
  • ...am I not recognizing and/or rejecting deeper target tones
  • ...if there are just no deep targets where I'm hunting

... somewhat of any annoying conundrum when you're still learning this Explorer beast.

Anyway, thanks for the advice - and everyone else as well. Most appreciated... :thumbup:

SCM
 
Steve(OR) said:
Agreed, mattockman... in fact, my first setup was using what Charles suggested on his site. The only real change I've made from it was increasing the Gain (a la JamesND and Bryce and others).

I think I got pretty good at IDing target tones up to about 6-7 inches. But nothing of real value any deeper... which makes one wonder:
  • ...am I not recognizing and/or rejecting deeper target tones
  • ...if there are just no deep targets where I'm hunting

... somewhat of any annoying conundrum when you're still learning this Explorer beast.

Anyway, thanks for the advice - and everyone else as well. Most appreciated... :thumbup:

SCM
Where is Charle's site?
Dman
 
That site has a lot of good info to learn the Explorer. The only question I have is this quote,

"With experience you can tell the difference between a silver dime that is half worn flat and one that is not. Or a Mercury dime from a Barber dime."

How on earth can one make that determination when some copper memorials have at times ID'd as silver? A Mercury dime and Barber dime have the same physical makeup, so I just don't see how IDing the two apart can be possible. After close to one year, I'm still learning how to be proficient with my Explorer and I know there are plenty out there with tons of experience. Hopefully some other experienced Explorer users can chime in with their thoughts on this ability to ID a Merc from a Barber or IDing worn silvers from ones that are not. :thumbup:
 
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