Better depth in discriminate mode observation

[Dig D]

This is more of a suggestion and question to the engineers at Fisher.
I've noticed that my F70 looses depth at any discrimination setting above zero. I have a dime buried at 7 inches which isn't detected when disc is above zero.. When I set disc to zero, the dime comes in perfectly clear and ID's perfectly. So i'm assuming the discrimination is done on what I call the input side by applying filters to the received signal before the processor analyzes the signal. With disc at zero, i'm assuming that no filtering is taking place on the input side, seeing the full shape and strength of the signal, therefore the increased depth and positive ID.

My suggestion is, to discriminate on the output side. In other words, operate at zero disc and simply "mute" any ID from the display and mute any audible tone that falls in the range of any of the disc settings set by the user.

I envision two types of discriminate modes. Normal discriminate which discriminates the usual way and Mute discriminate, which mutes any audible or visual from being output to the user that were disced out, but internally actually sets disc at zero. I suppose that could be what boost mode is on the F75, but if it's not, maybe this would let it get even deeper.


Just my observations and thoughts, hope it makes sense to someone.
Thanks

 

[pvtcook]

Dig D this could be how the Deus operates. I'm not sure. You can run 0 disc and simply mute out ferrous tones. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Steve O]

The cz mutes the tones and losses no depth in disc.

 

[Coin Rescue Inc]

I wonder if this is how the tune setting N1 works. The display shows iron numbers but the iron grunt is muted

 

[REVIER]

Man, I don't know for sure but there might be a problem with your unit...or your garden.
My F70 easily goes beyond that depth in disc.
I never hunt at 0 disc, if I am not in all metal I have my disc set between 4 and 23 depending on how much trash I want to deal with.
In disc past 0 I have gotten solid signals on targets at the 8-10" level with the thresh in negative numbers using the standard elliptical coil.
When I mount the 11"DD coil using similar settings I can now hit the 12" mark with reliable tones and pretty decent screen info in my great soil here in Kansas.
I can get further with that coil up to a so far measured 15" on targets in the wild by disregarding the screen and relying on tones only.

Last year at my club's annual hunt festivities a member who did great with an AT Pro went through the trouble of planting a garden with dimes placed at 2" increments from 2" to 12" all measured...and remember this was freshly turned soil.
I had the F70 in disc at 4, -2 on the thresh, sense was between 85 and 90 and I was in 4h tones with the 11" DD mounted.
He watched me swing over each target and when I reached the 12" target I didn't have my headphones plugged in so he heard the solid, stable repeating high tone I got on every swing over this thing.
Within the next few weeks he purchased a brand new F75 because of what he saw and heard that day.

Your particular soil conditions might have something to do with the vast differences in our results, but I don't know your soil type so I can't be sure.
If you do indeed do have decent soil in my experience using my F70 and 3 different coils something sounds way off on your results and experience.

 

[chuck ky]

so the cz mutes the tone but you still get a meter reading. i never noticed that when i used the cz-5 but i didn't look at the meter until i got a tone. thanks

 

[Steve O]

Chuck, the needle starts off in iron. When iron is disced out it doesn't move. Oh crap. I was testing this too early for a Sunday and woke the Misses.She came stomping down the hall way and said "WTH hon!" I said "you can hear that"?......my headphones are in the truck..... I wanted to max out the disc and run a nickle to see if the needle moves, if I remember, it pegs out with no tones... I'll have to do it later.

 

[mudpuppy]

Glad you jumped in on this post Revier with some real world F70 settings and experience..I didnt want to respond in like fashion to risk being accused as a liar...which as you all know, I generally am, no offense taken if we are talking about fishing or Life in general...but NOT when it comes to this F70 metal monster topic...!

The F70 with a 11"dd on the end of the stick, set up with a 4 disc, slight - thresh, multi tones of your choosing, mid to moderately high sens, whipped like a slingblade, will NOT miss a gosh darn silver thing or clad coin in the top 8"...

I know, I know, Dig D..its hard to believe...drop a q on the ground and see for yourself...

Theres more afoot here than the primary settings...I dont understand or care about the tech behind the performance characteristics.....all I know is you try to go too coil slow, like general purpose ML slow search, and you will miss the signal....You really whip that 11" coil, and the deeper pings show up, even with what can be considered 'sub par and shallow' settings...unbelievable in fact...its a balance between coil speed and comfortable settings is all I can attribute it to..

I have indeed hit some super deep targets, and have not run my 70 rig over 75 sens ever....I cannot imagine any other rig out there that is as fast or light or deep..it seems to be physically and kinetically impossible to try to go any faster. There probably is a 'quicker' recovery unit out there, but dang, you would have to be one fast hole digger to prove the point in a real world setting... Hitting a deep target, getting a firm audio ID, and digging it quickly are two different issues..screw the visual TID, whip this F70 with reckless abandon like an old school wheat chopper sling blade and key your ears in on the tones....a guy is flat worn out in a few hours deployed as such...For an F70 with the 11"dd, a 'century day' ends at noon...

Mud

 

[MarkCZ]

Well, let me ask you this how long has that dime been buried?
I've got several coin gardens on my property and I had one 6" three coin garden that after two years I gave up on and dug it up! I find coins at six inches in the wild fairly often, but in discrimination the coins in the 6" garden were just GONE!

I've got another 8" coin garden that is like three years old now, the coins I choose for the garden were,
an 1800's US large cent (flea market find for $4.00)
An Indian Cent,
and a Ben Franklin Half dollar.

The large cent is good now,
The Indian Cent is good.
I got concerned about that Silver half and I dug it up a little over a year ago and replaced it with a Clad Kennedy half, and instead of the 8" depth I planted it at 7". Its been over a year now and the half is still not detectable in discrimination mode! (A half at 7")

I've got 6" nickels that were buried three years ago that are now detectable, but at a much high conductive range than nickels should be, the 6" ones hit around the Zinc penny range. I planted a couple of 7" nickels (Two years old now) and they are not detectable)

Coin gardens are strange and I don't have a clue to why the act like they do??? Down to the 4" range they seem fine, much beyond that and they just get strange! (Whites Electronic claims that the ground matrix is disturbed when planting coins)
I would NEVER plant another coin garden beyond the 6" to 7" range, period!
I would like to redo mine and plant them differently than I've done in the past, My brother Ron had an idea that if your were to did the hole and slip the coin in at the bottom but into the soil beside the hole and push it over a inch or so that the dirt above the coin would not be disturbed, then fill in the hole. Just maybe they would season better.

My Brother Ron planted a 7" coin of some sort, tred to get his earlier F75 to hit it and the coin was GONE! so he takes his Tejon at the time and BANG it hit it find, but a week or so later neither detector would hit the coin.

I did redo a six inch three coin garden and before I planted it I use my 1266 in all metal to clear the bed area and that was over a year ago, some detectors I have set HOT with very low discrimination will chirp on maybe a coin or two but nothing that if you were hunting you would stop and dig.

Maybe deeper coin gardens in sandy soil would work better, but for me coin gardens beyond 4"-5" are just worthless, I'll take air test any day over a 7" planted coin garden, unless some other way of getting them in the ground could give them a normal reaction to a metal detector.

Mark

 

[NE Digger]

you probably experiencing a form of silent masking. And I don't care what anyone says, adding disc will affect depth/performance in any machine. You might not hear it. You might not see it, but its there. Now, nothing is linear when it comes to the F machines due to the software tweaks, so it had to tell whats "really" going on behind the curtain unless your one of the software engineers that designed them, general accepted wisdom is, adding disc affects depth. Now I know that the F75 adds sens as disc increases (at least in certain segments) to try to compensate a bit, but the effect is still there. The thing you are seeing is simply because your running essentially in an all metal disc mode when you go to 0 disc, and eliminating any silent masking possible. I see that exact same thing here all the time

 

[nalc472]

Using AM lets me listen to every signal. I have found a few items so far that were mixed with iron.
I could see the number jump a little back and forth and pull out the wheat from the chaff.

 

[togg77]

MarkCz--good thing you dug up your silver half-----Brother Ron luvs dem big silver and I wouldn't want you shooting in the dark towards your coin garden because you hear some critter scratchin' around.