Brevard County Florida planning on banning

[Ray S ECenFL]

Today I was approached by a Brevard County grounds keeper and told I could not metal detect in the park. I asked why and why was it not posted on the rules sign at the entrance to the park. He said he did not know why and that the signs will soon be replaced with ones that state NO METAL DETECTING.

I said it was probably a knee jerk reaction to someone who did not use proper recovery methods. Kind of like pulling someone over for speeding and banning all drivers because they might speed one day. Or pulling someone over for speeding and issuing a ticket to all drivers for one persons failure to stay within the speed limit.

The grounds keeper agreed to let me detect the tot lot and the grassy parking areas. I explained to him that I did not dig holes. I use a probe and pop the item out of the ground, leaving little to no trace of disturbance.

The day is coming that ALL Brevard County Parks will be off limits to the hobby. A sad day, especially for me, since my primary hunting areas are the parks.

Ray S ECenFL

 

[Smudge]

Ray, I hate to tell you this, but its already happened. Brevard County has banned metal detecting in its parks, except for the beaches.

I'm sure you know the reason: because of the price of silver and gold a bunch of fly-by-nighters are snatching up detectors without a thought about etiquette, and have started leaving big holes.

So the parks said, no more detecting.

It's starting to happen over here in Orlando too.

A handful of people are destroying this hobby for all us.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

smudge, do you know for a fact this is the reason for this Florida location? Because all too often, when we md'rs ask some gardener or cop who is booting us, "but why?", they will often say "because of holes". But I'm not so sure that in these cases, there is really always some incident(s) they have in mind. Rather, it is often the easy answer, to deflect the md'r from asking any more questions. I think the persons telling us these things is merely looking at US (right there at the time they are booting us), seeing our probe or leshe or whatever, and just saying "holes". Then the dejected md'r is left to assume "durn all those past md'rs who left holes". When in fact, there may never have been such incidents. It's just a convenient thing for them to say as rationale to boot you. Perhaps he saw other md'rs in the past, and made his mental assumptions with them too, when in fact never actually seeing any scars or marks as a result. The simple fact of seeing someone "dig", they will make the knee-jerk reaction "holes", and simply tell the next person they see that there were holes left, when in fact, maybe there never were any.

For example, I have heard of someone actually researching it through his city, to the highest he could go, to find verification of this. When it was all said and done, no one could ever remember seeing any holes, marks, scars, etc...... That won't stop an irritated busy-body from saying this though, I betcha. I mean, in his mind, you *might* leave holes, so when he says "holes", and you ask "you mean others left holes?", he's probably just gonna say "yeah, so scram".

There might be some exceptions to this, but my hunch is, even without any holes left un-filled, there are going to be bootings simply because they make this assumption, period, with no actual holes in the past.

 

[Roscue2]

I've been thinking the same thing for a while now too Terry. I have never understood why these big companies have never really attempted to protest the bannings. Is it that they don't think it will become a problem to their business for another hundred years or what?

 

[Smudge]

smudge, do you know for a fact this is the reason for this Florida location? Because all too often, when we md'rs ask some gardener or cop who is booting us, "but why?", they will often say "because of holes". But I'm not so sure that in these cases, there is really always some incident(s) they have in mind. Rather, it is often the easy answer, to deflect the md'r from asking any more questions. I think the persons telling us these things is merely looking at US (right there at the time they are booting us), seeing our probe or leshe or whatever, and just saying "holes". Then the dejected md'r is left to assume "durn all those past md'rs who left holes". When in fact, there may never have been such incidents. It's just a convenient thing for them to say as rationale to boot you. Perhaps he saw other md'rs in the past, and made his mental assumptions with them too, when in fact never actually seeing any scars or marks as a result. The simple fact of seeing someone "dig", they will make the knee-jerk reaction "holes", and simply tell the next person they see that there were holes left, when in fact, maybe there never were any.

For example, I have heard of someone actually researching it through his city, to the highest he could go, to find verification of this. When it was all said and done, no one could ever remember seeing any holes, marks, scars, etc...... That won't stop an irritated busy-body from saying this though, I betcha. I mean, in his mind, you *might* leave holes, so when he says "holes", and you ask "you mean others left holes?", he's probably just gonna say "yeah, so scram".

There might be some exceptions to this, but my hunch is, even without any holes left un-filled, there are going to be bootings simply because they make this assumption, period, with no actual holes in the past.

No Tom, it really is the holes. Believe me. I've seen them. They're running us off the parks because they see as vandals. They don't necessarily have to dig up every park, just a couple, to justify banning it everywhere. The logic is, if they've torn up park A, B, & C, why wait until they hit D?

Brevard County (which is the Cocoa/Melbourne area) has banned detecting at their parks. The signs are already up in most of them. Orange County (Orlando) is starting to require individual permits that are park specific. My metal detecting club is trying to arrange for one permit to hunt all parks in the county, but that hasn't happened yet.

It's really getting bad out there Tom. I know California, the regulation capital of the universe, has got to be pretty bad too.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Roscue, you're wrong about the metal detector manufacturers not "doing something" (or ...... trying anyhow). What do you think the FMDAC was formed for back in the early 1980s? For this express purpose. And the founders had no problem getting the manufacturers "on board" with this lobbying solidarity organization, because as you point out, it was in their best interest.

Now, as to whether or not that organization has been succesful and running around the country and challenging things down to the county levels, is another issue. It's not as easy as it sounds. Our hobbyist #'s are just not numerous enough for the FMDAC to raise the kind of capitol to do anything more than take on bigger state-level issues. They simply can not go down to county and city level issues, and run around the country with a team of lawyers doing this kind of thing. Unlike the NRA, which has 100's of thousands of members (because gun buffs are much more numerous), metal detecting is a small niche hobby. There's simply not the numbers needed to be generate the payola to hire lobbyist lawyers like the NRA does.

So it's not that "something hasn't been done", or that the manufacturers don't care, etc.... It's that their hands are understandibly tied, with the resources available to them.

 

[Hobo lobo]

What do you expect? All these people posting their finds. pics of gold rings and chains etc. If I was a noob and saw that, I too would rush out out and buy a detector and big shovel.

 

[dewcon4414]

It doesnt help that WE continue complaining about our inability to cover holes and discuss the damage some do either. These type of posts get picked up by those who think THEY are the only people who should be digging relics and such. Much like Tom says.... its also easier to just say no to detecting. IF the FMDAC doesnt start addressing some the county issues they will just be another organizational figure head taking our money. If they truly are interested in the direction this hobby is going they need to make some press. There are a lot more people out there with detectors... thats good for business so if business wants this continued interest they need to grow and get an affective campaign in place to reply to some of the reasons we are loosing hunting locations. Its getting impossible for a small group to even find a location they can go to.... and to me thats the fun to this hobby.... comparing finds, trash talk, and just have a great day out with friends.

Dew

 

[finnfoto]

I recently read a post that stated. the two biggest selling items this year are Lottery tickets and METAL DETECTORS. Shocking, with the way this economy is. It makes sense

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

The squirrels do more damage than I do, wonder if the squirrels will be banned next?

Really puts a damper on things for me. Just thinking of all the money I have invested in equiment and can not hunt the parks. The beaches ovrer this way get hunted to death as it is and I can only assume that the folks who are run out of the parks will end up on the beach.

Had planned on buying a new detector in the near future but now it is not going to happen.

I am not a very happy camper at the moment.

Ray S ECenFL

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

If anyone would like to express an opinion to the Brevard County Board of Commissioners, feel free:

I plan on contacting them to find out some additional information such as if it is really true, what the ordinance number is, the reason for the ban, etc...

There are quite a few folks in Brevard County that swing a detector as well as lots of folks on the various forums that may be interested in expressing an opinion to the commissioners. I do not plan on sitting idly by while this is happening. The squirrels do more damage to the grass than I do. If someone damages the park, then yes, they should be fined, banned or whatever, but not ban everyone from all the parks for the mistakes of a few.

 

[dahut]

Today I was approached by a Brevard County grounds keeper and told I could not metal detect in the park. I asked why and why was it not posted on the rules sign at the entrance to the park. He said he did not know why and that the signs will soon be replaced with ones that state NO METAL DETECTING.

I said it was probably a knee jerk reaction to someone who did not use proper recovery methods. Kind of like pulling someone over for speeding and banning all drivers because they might speed one day. Or pulling someone over for speeding and issuing a ticket to all drivers for one persons failure to stay within the speed limit.

The grounds keeper agreed to let me detect the tot lot and the grassy parking areas. I explained to him that I did not dig holes. I use a probe and pop the item out of the ground, leaving little to no trace of disturbance.

The day is coming that ALL Brevard County Parks will be off limits to the hobby. A sad day, especially for me, since my primary hunting areas are the parks.

Ray S ECenFL

Its coming all over. The worst thing that ever happened to the hobby was the mass marketing of detectors.

It has happened where I live, so I've seen it. It is usually because of property damage and/or irresponsible recovery. I've been told about hobbyists who leave holes and trash, and steal parks property when they leave. It was recognized that I was not one of them, but I was lumped in with them by association,

You can try approaching the parks or city council, but it is my experience that's futile once it has gone this far. They don't serve detectorists and THEIR singular recreation, but rather cater to the larger group of *regular* folks. If you would be like normal people and just play Frisbee Golf, softball, or engage in some other 'normal' activity, well... then they got something for you. As a detectorist, however, you are a looter and parasite, draining the resources of the benevolent parks people.
That sounds harsh, but I've heard it.

In the best case, the Parks Department may institute a permitting system, where they take another tax from you in exchange for the privilege to detect. Never mind that you already pay taxes. But I can see them rejecting that, based on the damage angle. I was told that still might not offer enough control, which is what municipal leaders are most concerned with. All it takes is a few complaints from folks with cellphones and you are out.

Fighting it is worth it, if you win. It's a tough fight though, if we're to be honest. The FMDAC is essentially useless, too, from my experience. So you go it alone if there is no club or organized group working together. Even if there is, they are often not motivated or prepared enough to go to bat on the matter. Im calling my Parks Director again next week, to have a chat with him about the permits.

I'm sorry to hear this - it is inevitable as more and more detectorists hit the grass in cities across the land.

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

I contacted the Brevard County Commissioners and asked about the ban on metal detecting and if it was true and if it was I asked for the ordinance number that it fell under.

Today I received a phone call from the Parks and Recreation Director. He asked me a few question concerning who told me that metal detecting was not permitted and wanted to know the name of the park I was at when it happened. I told him that on two different occasions in the same park, two different grounds maintenance employees told me that I could not detect in the park because it was not permitted. The second time it happened ( yes I went back after being told the first time) I asked why it was not mentioned on the rules sign at the entrance to the park. The employee told me that the signs were in the process of being changed and that all the parks would have these signs.

The director told me that only the north end of the county has No Metal Detecting signs posted and that these signs were put up without authorization. There is no ordinance prohibiting metal detecting in the parks and that it is permitted. He did express some concern about folks digging in the sports fields because some time ago someone ruptured a sprinkler line while digging with a shovel. ( go figure). That is why the parks at the north end of the county posted the signs.

He intends to look into the matter and find out who is telling the employees that detecting is not permitted.

So that is the rest of the story.

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

Last weekend I was approached by a Brevard County grounds keeper and told I could not metal detect in the park. I asked why and why was it not posted on the rules sign at the entrance to the park. He said he did not know why and that the signs will soon be replaced with ones that state NO METAL DETECTING.

I said it was probably a knee jerk reaction to someone who did not use proper recovery methods. Kind of like pulling someone over for speeding and banning all drivers because they might speed one day. Or pulling someone over for speeding and issuing a ticket to all drivers for one persons failure to stay within the speed limit.

The grounds keeper agreed to let me detect the tot lot and the grassy parking areas. I explained to him that I did not dig holes. I use a probe and pop the item out of the ground, leaving little to no trace of disturbance.

The day is coming that ALL Brevard County Parks will be off limits to the hobby. A sad day, especially for me, since my primary hunting areas are the parks.

I do not think all MDers should be banned because a few folks do not know how to properly retrieve a target and damage the grass. Not very happy about this situation and I plan on contacting the Brevard County Commissioners to find out more about this.

I plan on going down fighting. :headbang:

On Sunday, I wrote an email to the Brevard County Commissioners and told them about my experience at the local park. This happened on two separate occasions with two different grounds maintenance employees. I asked if it was true that metal detecting was going to be banned at all the Brevard County Parks and it was just a matter of getting the signs changed. I requested the ordinance that specifically prohibited metal detecting for my own information.

On Monday, today, I received a call from the Parks and Recreation Director and he wanted to know who told me that I could not detect in the park and wanted to know what park in occurred in. I went into detail about the two incidents. They both happened at the same park. I was told the detecting in the parks is permitted and that he intend to look into why the grounds maintenance people are telling people that it is not permitted. The Parks Manager was also present during the conversation and he is concerned also.

So it appears that the parks employees were misinformed by someone and whoever that someone is will be hearing from the Parks and Recreation upper management.

There is some concern over someone who damaged a sprinkler system while digging in a sports field with a shovel to retrieve a target. Other than that there is no plans on banning detecting in the Brevard Couty Parks. I was misinfomred by the misinformed parks employees.

HH

Ray S ECenFL

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ray, as I said in an earlier reply to this, your situation here is not un-typical: Someone comes up (even a supposed authority like a cop, gardener, ranger, etc...) and says "scram". The dejected md'r says "why?". And the "authority" says "because it's not allowed", blah blah blah. Heck, they can even cite colorful reasons about some other supposed person before you who left holes (but in reality, is just the deflection answer they give you, because it's already their pre-conceived notion). And they may say signs are forth-coming, or ANY number of other things to fit your objections.

But JUST AS YOUR EXPERIENCE HERE now shows, often-time, it's just one person having a bad day, or a cop who was duty-bound to respond to miss-busy-body across the street who called, or ..... who knows?

Luckily, you got someone in city hall to say it simply "wasn't so". What *could* have happened, was some superior researches the matter, and instead of saying that some underling was mistaken, will instead have images in their minds of geeks with shovels, and merely press home the "no". In that case, the md'r who sought solidarity, petitioned, etc... might have gotten a rule written (essentially) where none existed before. Fortunately in your case, this didn't happen.

Postscript: in your other post, you say:

"He intends to look into the matter and find out who is telling the employees that detecting is not permitted."

Hopefully after conferring with this other person, his opinion remains un-changed. Otherwise you might have a case where your efforts to over-ride someone in the field, backfire and bring even more un-wanted attention.

 

[dahut]

Last weekend I was approached by a Brevard County grounds keeper and told I could not metal detect in the park. L

When I read of all this I sent a message to the parks director of Brevard County. I told them of all the GOOD we do and the reasons why a ban was not needed and could even be harmful.
I guess maybe it wasn't needed. Oh, well. I needed the practice.

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

The squirrels do more damage than I do, wonder if the squirrels will be banned next?

Really puts a damper on things for me. Just thinking of all the money I have invested in equiment and can not hunt the parks. The beaches ovrer this way get hunted to death as it is and I can only assume that the folks who are run out of the parks will end up on the beach.

Had planned on buying a new detector in the near future but now it is not going to happen.

I am not a very happy camper at the moment.

Ray S ECenFL

This is from the UPDATE at the begining of this thread.... So you no longer have to contact the Brevard County Commissioners or the Parks department.... Thanks to everyone who wrote or called.....

I contacted the Brevard County Commissioners and asked about the ban on metal detecting and if it was true and if it was I asked for the ordinance number that it fell under.

Today I received a phone call from the Parks and Recreation Director. He asked me a few question concerning who told me that metal detecting was not permitted and wanted to know the name of the park I was at when it happened. I told him that on two different occasions in the same park, two different grounds maintenance employees told me that I could not detect in the park because it was not permitted. The second time it happened ( yes I went back after being told the first time) I asked why it was not mentioned on the rules sign at the entrance to the park. The employee told me that the signs were in the process of being changed and that all the parks would have these signs.

The director told me that only the north end of the county has No Metal Detecting signs posted and that these signs were put up without authorization. There is no ordinance prohibiting metal detecting in the parks and that it is permitted. He did express some concern about folks digging in the sports fields because some time ago someone ruptured a sprinkler line while digging with a shovel. ( go figure). That is why the parks at the north end of the county posted the signs.

He intends to look into the matter and find out who is telling the employees that detecting is not permitted.

So that is the rest of the story.