Bryce, would you record some souns of your deep coins?

[Erik in NJ]

Guv, you madcap....

That's pretty funny cause Grumpyoldman and I also had a bet for a silver Barber half that you would have at least 5 grammatical errors in your next post.....of course I was long and he was short, so it looks like we both made out tonight ! See, no need to go out digging those messy holes! No disinformation here - I never lie (or was that - I always lie?)

Just ya Guv.....I got a pretty thick skin - I just can't resist a good debate (at least when I can't get out detecting)

 

[Guvner]

Knock yourselves out around here Erik... I'll put up the Raptor Shovel... You put up all of the confusing sounds...

I just find it amazing that a guy who wants help throws in that Bryce is keeping things to himself... Not a very good way to get help. At least he could have researched it a little before he said something like that.. Next thing you know he'll want Bryce to dig his hole and supply the shovel..

Anyway.. You all have a good night. Looks like high winds and storms for tomorrow around here...

G..

 

[Erik in NJ]

n/t

 

[niterider_58]

HAY GUVNER THAT RAPTOR SHOVEL WOULD OF CAME IN HANDY TODAY AFTER FINDING OUT THE PARK I WAS AT HAD NO RESTROOMS LUCKILY I STILL HAD THE HOLE OPEN WHERE I JUST PULLED OUT A 36 MERC SO I TURNED AND FILLED IT BACK UP AND HOLLARD AT BRYCE AND SAID DON'T DIG ANY IRON HITS UP HERE.....TRUST ME JUST LET THEM GO....TODAY IRON GRUNTS ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND

 

[Guvner]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwEIkXMfL1E[/video]

 

[Hotcz70]

NO he DIDN'T do what he said...and more importantly I WOULDN'T hunt with him if he did...but man that was FUNNY
Now you see why I call him the Yeti.

 

[se stan]

just find it amazing that a guy who wants help throws in that Bryce is keeping things to himself... Not a very good way to get help. At least he could have researched it a little before he said something like that.. Next thing you know he'll want Bryce to dig his hole and supply the shovel..

let me tell you something guvner why do you keep saying i directed that comment on bryce.i know that man means well and gives out info the best he can..
it wasnt directed at him because he reponds and helps people here on a daily basis.

 

[Hotcz70]

Stan...just let this go. I felt it was directed at me in some way too. I responded to you and said "a little more digging...and a little less typing".

No harm..no foul.

Guvner is my friend...and had my back...just as I would have had his...so he responded and said what he said to you.

Your response said you were sorry for making everyone mad.

You didn't make everyone mad...you made me mad...as I felt it was directed at me.

Anyway...no harm...no foul. Let's just drop it and get back to what this forum is all about...fun ...friends...and learning.

 

[grumpyolman]

Guvner...I am, surprised at the tone of your comments directed to Erik. I think I have observed you banning folks from the forum who have posted similar toned comments.
Reading all of this again I think I know what has caused this to happen and, I hope, how to calm the waters. It has to do with learning and the frustration from two different camps not maybe knowing about learning. Folks learn visually, auditorily, or kinesthetically, and usally some combination of all three. People are most effective learners when they can experience all three modes. That's part of the popularity with Power Point as researchers have told us how much more is retained if the visual is included with the auditory.
The application here is people have asked for information about how to learn what the 'iffy' sounds are they should dig. You and Bryce, and many others who have that knowledge, have tried to explain it on a typed page. It's hard to read and to learn what someone hears. It's harder to try to explain that. One can explain loud or soft, or high or low, but the "round silver tone" is never going to be explained adequately on a written page. It has to be heard.
Here's where the frustration pops into the equation. You and Bryce know what the sound it. Stan SE, myself and a ton of other want to know that sound is and ask for it. You are ready to share that, and tons of other knowledge you have (and I'm not discounting the help from other Top Guns) but the only way to share it currently is on the typed page. You can't explain that sound. You can try! And both camps have. Eventually all get frustrated. Then one camp claims the other is not generous with their information and then that camp is angered because they are discounted as not being hepful, while they really want to be, and the forum becomes unproductive and moderately hostile.
Trial and error learning is primitive. That's the equivalent of digging more and typing less. Why do detectors come with written instructions with pictures and in most cases as DVD? If trial and error was the only way to learn they'd just send it in a box and tell you to go out and play with it and eventually you would learn it. Doesn't makes sense does it?
The only way to truly hear what a particular sound is. is to HEAR it. The only way to know what the color red is, is to SEE it. The only way to know what sandpaper feels like is to FEEL it. For you and the other Top Guns and for Erik to help me know what that sound is, if you choose to, you should produce a DVD that shows you hunting while listening to what the machine is saying, and have you explain what it is that is happening. To Dig or Not to Dig. That is the Question!! Granted we can do trial and error like you and Bryce had to do and dig, dig, dig! But a more effective way of learning that and teaching that is in the mode that Erik is trying to do. .Regards...Jim

 

[Hotcz70]

I know everyone has probably already read my similar post on this before...but I have a reason I am not willing to do so...and will not.

There are already 100's of youtub videos out there that have the sounds everyone is looking for.

The fact of the matter is that there is NO way for me or any other experienced hunter to train your ears to pick through those sounds people are walking over.

If there was...I wouldn't be digging 10 pieces of iron on somedays to find just one keeper.

Those "sounds" everyone wants to hear are aready there ...and they have already been recorded. There is no shortcut to learning these signals...it comes with experience...many hours in the field...and many junk targets.

It gets frustrating to me that many people can't accept that...and keep insisting a recorded signal will help then learn quicker...when in fact they are already hearing it everyday but choose to walk over it.

I have been asked many times before...and it just wouldn't be feasable for others to hear what I hear. I wish I could help more....but the only way is to explain it because the sound really can't be duplicated...no matter what anyone else says.

Unless you have the exact same machine....the exact same settings....the exact same coil....the exact same ground conditions...the exact same moisture content...and are using the exact same headphones....you will not hear the tone or warble that I hear.

Even if a splitter was used...it would not be passing through my headphones...and the person would not necessarily interperet the sound as I do...hence the experience.

Even if a person was to hear the exact same sound as me with all the variables taken out of play by cloning everything I stated...that doesn't mean he or she would make the choice to dig it.

I have seen responses about headphones not making a difference as to what I or someone else hears and interperet. I guarantee you that couldn't be further from being correct IMHO.

I absolutely can not hunt without my sunray pro gold headphones.

Are they the most expensive?...I don't think so.

Are they the best?...I don't know.

Do I get one cent or free headphones from Ralph...NO.

Do they make silver give the sweet sound I have trained my ears to listen for?...ABSOLUTELY.

If someone makes a CD of sounds they hear...great....but IMHO it just wouldn't do much... because of all the variables I mentioned above.

I have come to this conclusion from 1000's of hours of actual in field experimenting over targets...and by letting everyone with me listen through my headphones and machine...as well as them running there machine over that same target.

In each and every instance that person has looked me right in the face and said.."that's not what I'm hearing through my machine"

This is because of exactly what I stated about the variables.

Sure some of them heard it on their machine...and if they couldn't.. I messed with their settings until their machine at least made a signal.

Even the ones that heard it fairly well said "I probably wouldn't have dug it"

Who am I speaking of...well....experienced hunters such as Guvner...DrBob in MO....niterider_58..."cousin Mike"...deeponedge...silverfix...and the list goes on.

All of what everyone want to hear just simply comes with experience..and that's all there is to it.

A CD of someone elses' sounds will not help each individual learn and master what they can only gain from actual hunt time.

Actually getting to hunt with an experienced hunter...and being called over to listen through his headphones can be a valuable learning tool...but only to a certain extent. They still have to learn and master their own sound coming through their machine.....their headphones...and in the end...are still responsible for making the final decision to dig or not.

No one person has the "secret sound"..and again...a lot of good videos with the sounds you are asking about are already out there.

Now with all that being said...if somebody wants to make a CD and thinks it will help others...I'm truly happy for them... and hope it helps them.

Fellers'...please don't respond to this and turn it into questions.....a debate...etc

My point to this post was just to let everyone know why I choose not to...and my reasoning behind it.

I'm always open to help others...but have made my stand on this issue...and stated my reasons to the best of my ability.

We have all stated out opinions..thoughts...wishes...etc. Let's just let this thread move on down now.

Thanks to everyone for reading....and I hope we are all still friends here

 

[se stan]

n/t

 

[Guvner]

You act like I run around here banning people all the time. I don't. I hardly ever ban anyone unless they just become an absolute pain in the rear. Your trying to sell this nonsense about sounds really makes great reading but the truth of the matter is that I for one have all kinds of problems getting out hunting as seldom as I do. I've heard the sounds and know what to listen for. It doesn't help me one bit when I haven't hunted in 6 months. I've dug plenty of ghost holes when I first get back to hunting. After a while I learn to move around the target from different angles constantly listening. After several for sure targets that are empty holes I can tell the sounds are so slightly different that unless you're hunting every day you're likely to make plenty of mistakes unless you're out detecting plenty. Ask Bryce about how long it takes to even get used to a new coil. Each one is different and may even be different on each machine. That's why we both think that it's a bit naive to think recording sounds is going to help in what most of us are actually detecting in. To be honest about it if we were detecting in clean parks it would be very easy. But in the real world the only targets left are problem targets that are so close to junk as to not give a clear audio signal causing them to be missed by 40 plus years of detectors. Why would you think a sound that kind of target would make is going to do anything but confuse a newbie who doesn't want to dig any junk. And you and Erik think that this can be shown on a tinny speaker off the computer. Nonsense.

As far as Erik goes I've talked to him on the phone before but I get more complaints about him in private emails then you can believe. He likes to get in on most every subject and can be quite the prolific poster at times. Some people don't like him trashing things and I get to hear about it. I do wish he'd be more judicious with his posting. Other then that he's a great guy from what I can tell. On the other hand he could be the "anti-Christ"...

G..

 

[Erik in NJ]

I will be using high-end linear PCM recording technology to be able to reproduce the dry output of the Explorer in better than CD quality! Of course to get optimal audio you would not play it over the PC speaker but through the same headset that you detect with just plugged into your PC or CD/DVD/BD player. I think it will be quite good actually to be able to pick out the most subtle of sounds -- hopefully in a different league than your average YouTube video.

Why Guvner does this mean we're not friends anymore? You know Guv, if I thought you weren't my friend... I just don't think I could bear it!

 

[wade tx]

n/t

 

[Guvner]

I have two guns, one for each of ya...

G..

 

[Erik in NJ]

n/t

 

[mj-air23]

Ditto Bryce!! Well said........

 

[Erik in NJ]

Very nice rig and great video on the Beach forum -- very inspiring. What sort of helmet do you mount the cam to and how do you ensure that it's recording the right part of the ground? Do you just keep your eyes on what you are trying to film? Thanks.

 

[Chris/MA]

To some degree, a recording of sounds would be useful. But only in a very general way to show the user what various iffy signals *generally* sound like. This is only 10% of the battle, the other 90% is going out and digging.

Bryce is right, you're not going to get the same fidelity and response with the same machine, different headphones, no headphones etc. And a lot of things just depend on the ground conditions, how much trash, settings, etc.

His signals wouldn't probably even sound the same as what I'm used to, since he hunts with conductive tones, and I hunt with ferrous tones. He hunts with some iron mask, I hunt with none at all, wide open screen.

I tried his settings the other day (though I think I didn't change the tones to conductive), and ended up switching back to no iron mask. Just because I'm so used to hearing the iron that it's disconcerting not to.

I think generally speaking:
If you hunt in conductive and use iron mask, you want to investigate those little high pitched chirps that just barely break through the iron mask. Some of them are going to be nails, others will be something nice along with a nail, others will be neither of the above.

If you hunt in ferrous and don't use any iron mask, pay attention to the signals that sound like a mix between iron and a high tone. Often times they are a ferrous (nail) target and a non-ferrous (coin, etc) in the same hole. Plan to dig a lot of nails.

 

[Elton]

n/t