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Can a detector erase a signal?

BigTony

Well-known member
Now makes me wonder if this is why I find stuff Jeff missed and vice versa? Im more apt now to simply dig if I get any signal regardless if repeatable or not. IF, I can pinpoint it then maybe I can get close enough to get direction once in, it only takes a minute to dig and cover back up!
If your with a hunting partner, I suggest to allow him to try that target. Or come back to it afterwards. Everyone’s results will vary
 

still looking 52

Well-known member
If I can't get at least a two way signal plus a depth reading I pass on those come and go signals, there's only so much time in your day to hunt and by digging every signal you'll be wasting a lot of time.
Another good thing about having a hunting buddy is you can get a second opinion on a target, that's always helpful.
 

BigTony

Well-known member
If I can't get at least a two way signal plus a depth reading I pass on those come and go signals, there's only so much time in your day to hunt and by digging every signal you'll be wasting a lot of time.
Another good thing about having a hunting buddy is you can get a second opinion on a target, that's always helpful.
This is different situation where you get the signal and it’s good but for some reason you keep
scanning it, then you dig and it disappears.
I agree with you about about two way and depth.
 

Monte

Well-known member
Can a detector erase a signal? NO. It can't 'erase' anything.

A detector might produce a dig-worthy signal if a target is swept one direction and not on a reverse sweep. That might be caused by the orientation and the ground environment, a nearby rock or intense "mineral body", and most often by a nearby masking trash target.

Of course we hope for a more ideal condition where we get a good signal if it is swept in each direction from left and from right.

And YES, there are times we get a good response or two, but on repeat sweeps the target signal weakens or even vanishes. Why?

Several reasons possible such as not a direct sweep over the target. A weaker deep signal and the ground mineral environment. And really the 'unknown' with regard to Ground Balance.

How? It could be 'off' a little or it changed a little. What causes the change? More detectors than most folks realize rely on a GB for the Disc. mode that relies on Tracking or is a fixed or preset GB internally in circuitry that might shift (track) just a little from reading the ground on repeated sweeps.

Even models with Ground Grab / Fast Grab or Manual GB often have that adjustment for the All Metal mode or Pinpoint function, but it doesn't carry over fully for the Disc. mode. Maybe a little within a defined range, or fully, but generally not at all or not a full-range adjustment in the Disc. mode.

What to do? Simple:

Do not make multiple sweeps over a good target.

One or two decent hits just quickly Pinpoint and recover the target.

Monte
 

sube

Well-known member
There are targets that disappear foil bottle caps and nails if badly rusted you dig and they break up . False (does not matter if you use high fe or iron bias a nail well false FACT) it may sound quieter running higher fe or iron bias but it's only getting rid of the ground noise not falses
A nail can't false if you have another target under the coil the false is weak the target under the coil rules .

However false does not happen in pinpoint mode your pinpoint mode is 2 to 3 inches deeper than your disc mode if there is a real target under your coil pinpoint mode well see it .
Other disappearing targets tacks small nails you get a deep target soft sound (false)dig a plug scan hole no target check plug no sound target gone if small nail or copper plated bb using your pin pointer , now you check it with your detector and it's still there but in disc pattern it's gone because it's closer to the coil and is being disc out except in pinpoint mode .Your handheld pin pointer has less depth then your coil so if your not right on it you well think it's gone. You should know how far your pin pointer well hit a coin .
Put your detector in manual bump sensitivity up scan a 3 foot square you may get 30 signals most well be ground noise now go back over in pinpoint mode you may only get 5 or 10 signals (WHY) because pinpoint mode only sees real targets and real falses not all the noise from the ground.
I disagree with you about about two way and depth.
I have dug one ways that were coins as long as they pinpoint were the sound is coming from and not a false you chase to the side of the hole .sube
 
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Ronstar

Well-known member
I tend to agree with sube’s assessment. I have had several times where I got a decent signal one way and nothing at 45/90 angles, I dug anyways as F75 was saying 6” range and out comes a silver ring or a silver dime or some other jewelry trinket. I try and mark the spot with a foot scuff and a simple plug tells me if something is there or not. Legend still is a learning curve for now.
I know there are guys with super tuned ears that can tell the brand of the beverage on the bottle cap, Im not one. There are those who only dig two way signals, but what are you missing? There are those who only chase dimes/quarters/halves and dollars, is that wrong? And there are those that simply take their equipment for a walk and look good doing it.
I just wanted to know why one second something is there and the next its simply gone. Thanks to those who chimed in, more of the mystery is now better understood.
 

Odanscoils

Well-known member
I stopped the tips for others too ! Not too many care....until they hit a situation out in the field.... Then they want to know why, how and a solution.
Elmy
Some of us greatly appreciate your efforts.
When I come across your knowledgeable posts.
I save them for reference.
Sadly I have never heard of the Hi pinpointe.
Would love to learn it.
 

Picketwire

Well-known member
I don't think this is what Elmy is reluctant to explain. It doesn't relate to high pinpoint, it relates to a target disappearing. Sometimes an iron object leaves a rust "halo" that can sound like a coin. Mr. Garrett said that if you stomp the ground where the target is located, it breaks up that halo and you get no signal or an iron tone, but if it is really a coin, the sound will remain the same or sometimes get better. I have had it do so in softer dirt at times but when it is packed really hard it might not work at all. I have broken the halo up just by pushing my shovel down into it.

I have also seen on another forum a person I have a lot of faith in said that EMI can change the depth of a detector over just a few minutes. He said deep targets can disappear in just a few minutes and reappear later. He goes through different frequencies comparing the height above the coil that a dime will give a response. He says the best frequency varies from day to day and even hour to hour.
 

Elmy

Well-known member
Can a detector erase a signal? NO. It can't 'erase' anything.

A detector might produce a dig-worthy signal if a target is swept one direction and not on a reverse sweep. That might be caused by the orientation and the ground environment, a nearby rock or intense "mineral body", and most often by a nearby masking trash target.

Of course we hope for a more ideal condition where we get a good signal if it is swept in each direction from left and from right.

And YES, there are times we get a good response or two, but on repeat sweeps the target signal weakens or even vanishes. Why?

Several reasons possible such as not a direct sweep over the target. A weaker deep signal and the ground mineral environment. And really the 'unknown' with regard to Ground Balance.

How? It could be 'off' a little or it changed a little. What causes the change? More detectors than most folks realize rely on a GB for the Disc. mode that relies on Tracking or is a fixed or preset GB internally in circuitry that might shift (track) just a little from reading the ground on repeated sweeps.

Even models with Ground Grab / Fast Grab or Manual GB often have that adjustment for the All Metal mode or Pinpoint function, but it doesn't carry over fully for the Disc. mode. Maybe a little within a defined range, or fully, but generally not at all or not a full-range adjustment in the Disc. mode.

What to do? Simple:

Do not make multiple sweeps over a good target.

One or two decent hits just quickly Pinpoint and recover the target.

Monte
WOW.......If I throw a quarter on the ground and rest my coil centered on the coin touching it and now hit pinpoint, will it disappear ?????????
IN theory......YES !.... a few sweeps above the coin should not detect it.......I can't test this as I am under the weather still, but you all and "especially" RONSTAR" please test this theory.....even a pinpointer can be detuned to do this.
....at least In theory, it disappears.
E L M Y
 
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Ronstar

Well-known member
Elmy, I buried the Rosie that Jeff and I both missed in pretty wet soil in my old garden spot. Just after doing that (covered but loose) the dime did not register. I compacted the dirt and swept again, nothing. Now its been in the ground for almost 10 days and the soil is just barely damp at 6” inches. Tomorrow I will check the dime and see what the drier soil does. Then I will try and locate simply by pinpoint sweeps. Interesting theory you provided and it just might be Im detuning without realizing thats what Im doing.
Stay tuned.
 

Elmy

Well-known member
Elmy, I buried the Rosie that Jeff and I both missed in pretty wet soil in my old garden spot. Just after doing that (covered but loose) the dime did not register. I compacted the dirt and swept again, nothing. Now its been in the ground for almost 10 days and the soil is just barely damp at 6” inches. Tomorrow I will check the dime and see what the drier soil does. Then I will try and locate simply by pinpoint sweeps. Interesting theory you provided and it just might be Im detuning without realizing thats what Im doing.
Stay tuned.
It will become detectable with time....I watered my test area once a day for a month.
 

Rick(ND)

Well-known member
Can a detector erase a signal? NO. It can't 'erase' anything.

A detector might produce a dig-worthy signal if a target is swept one direction and not on a reverse sweep. That might be caused by the orientation and the ground environment, a nearby rock or intense "mineral body", and most often by a nearby masking trash target.

Of course we hope for a more ideal condition where we get a good signal if it is swept in each direction from left and from right.

And YES, there are times we get a good response or two, but on repeat sweeps the target signal weakens or even vanishes. Why?

Several reasons possible such as not a direct sweep over the target. A weaker deep signal and the ground mineral environment. And really the 'unknown' with regard to Ground Balance.

How? It could be 'off' a little or it changed a little. What causes the change? More detectors than most folks realize rely on a GB for the Disc. mode that relies on Tracking or is a fixed or preset GB internally in circuitry that might shift (track) just a little from reading the ground on repeated sweeps.

Even models with Ground Grab / Fast Grab or Manual GB often have that adjustment for the All Metal mode or Pinpoint function, but it doesn't carry over fully for the Disc. mode. Maybe a little within a defined range, or fully, but generally not at all or not a full-range adjustment in the Disc. mode.

What to do? Simple:

Do not make multiple sweeps over a good target.

One or two decent hits just quickly Pinpoint and recover the target.

Monte
Hi Monte

Been a while since I responded to too many post, but feel you have the right idea on this one. The reason I say this is my wife's MXT while I was learning it seen several signals that were weaker and would disappear swinging over it several times to get a good ID on it to discover I was tracking the target out with each sweep of the coil as I was using the tracking mode and tracking out the signal. What I would do is mark the spot and do a manual ground balance and return to the signal and with the tracking off and swept over it several times and signal did not disappear as tracking was trying to track out the target. I like the tracking mode, but tried not to swing over a weak target too much to see if it was good or bad.
Anyway reading some of the post I feel this is what they were talking about ad hope it was.

Rick
 

laplander

Moderator
Staff member
Hi Monte

Been a while since I responded to too many post, but feel you have the right idea on this one. The reason I say this is my wife's MXT while I was learning it seen several signals that were weaker and would disappear swinging over it several times to get a good ID on it to discover I was tracking the target out with each sweep of the coil as I was using the tracking mode and tracking out the signal. What I would do is mark the spot and do a manual ground balance and return to the signal and with the tracking off and swept over it several times and signal did not disappear as tracking was trying to track out the target. I like the tracking mode, but tried not to swing over a weak target too much to see if it was good or bad.
Anyway reading some of the post I feel this is what they were talking about ad hope it was.

Rick
Spot on Rick about the tracking!
HH Jeff
 

Ronstar

Well-known member
So as I’m learning along here…..
Legend has GB tracking option but I dont use it where all this usually happens. Now, if I get a decent hit deep its usually dime or quarter numbers but then again that 9” deep IH was a quarter number…….(and no there was nothing further in the plug….). Its that VDI parameter that I might a solid one way hit, then move 45 degrees, then again and again until either I get it again or it simply is no longer existing. I did once, realize I had bumped the coil and it was giving me a signal but I digress…. Should one stick to 90 degree shifts so as not to swing over it so much???? Or go after the one and only “ding”?
 

BigTony

Well-known member
So as I’m learning along here…..
Legend has GB tracking option but I dont use it where all this usually happens. Now, if I get a decent hit deep its usually dime or quarter numbers but then again that 9” deep IH was a quarter number…….(and no there was nothing further in the plug….). Its that VDI parameter that I might a solid one way hit, then move 45 degrees, then again and again until either I get it again or it simply is no longer existing. I did once, realize I had bumped the coil and it was giving me a signal but I digress…. Should one stick to 90 degree shifts so as not to swing over it so much???? Or go after the one and only “ding”?
I feel it’s about swinging over it way too long
 

Ronstar

Well-known member
But this is part of the dilemma. You get a good hit once, back up a little or over a little to confirm and its gone……..so you’re trying to relocate.
 

sube

Well-known member
Ronstar there are 3 types of falses throw en false from a nail not under the coil double false which is under the coil and ground noise false.
Throw en false place a nail in front of the coil in the 5 o"clock and 11 o"clock position angled sweep in front of the nail coil 2 to 3 inches away start with high sensitivity and keep lowering it you well see you can't get rid of the false till your down to low sensitivity you only have to change the angle of the coil 15 degrees to loose it. This nail well not pinpoint under the coil

Double false nail under the coil short 2 high tones or 2 low tones. This nail well pinpoint under the coil.

Ground false sporactic noise does not repeat because it's a weak signal if you don't hit it exactly right you well not hear it again you well get more ground noise with more sensitivity but they do not repeat . This well not pinpoint mineral pocket and such no metal there.

Nails and iron metal pieces repeat ground noise does not. sube
Forgot you can't detect the center of the nail only each end is where your pinpoint well be
 
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