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Changeover Switch

E

Eric Foster

New member
I seen that the GPX4500 has a switch to turn off the ground balance. What a neat idea!
In the GS5C the switch has disappeared, and replaced with something more useful.

Eric.
 
Hi Eric,

i saw the humor in that also, but I see more humor in the SETA feature since the GS 5 has had a functional SETA equivalent feature since the onset. If I add the control I mentioned in an email recently, the GS 5 SETA type feature will be even expanded more.

As for eliminating noise, the GS 5 has an on demand immediate control for the operator to use. There is no having to point the coil towards the noise gods. Instead, the operator takes control and makes the adjustment he wants quickly and easily.

BTW, I am up against the noise barrier you ran into now. I have cranked up the gain to the point I am experiencing sufficient noise where I test that I can't really tell what is what any more. Now, I am going to have to find a distant test location to see if any future adjustments really help.

Reg
 
Hi Reg,

For the benefit of those on this forum who don't know what SETA is (including myself), what does it stand for? I know there are numerous posts on another forum, but I just haven't had the time to read them. By the way, I have read your emails and will respond shortly. The reason for such lack of time is another important and unique project I am working on.

Eric.
 
Hi Eric,

Quoting ML's literature, SETA is; "Smart Electronic Timing Alignment".

"SETA automatically sets a precise alignment for each Timing option. What this means is that in each timing, noises caused by magnetic interference will be minimised, the threshold will remain more stable, and signals from highly magnetic rocks will be significantly reduced. This allows you to harness all the power of the GPX-4500, and operate it more efficiently under different conditions."

"SETA technology allows each timing to operate independently and much more efficiently so that deep and small hard to hear nuggets become more obvious."

I hope this clears up what it is.

Cheers,

Reg
 
I have a question. If your detector is so far ahead of the new Minelab, and cheaper, why has it not put Minelab behind your detector in sales????
 
I think because the GS5Bs are limited production and made to order (for the most part). I think they are fairly heavily used in Australia.

The ML Detectors are a large scale production piece. I have ALWAYS ranked EF Detectors at (or near) the top of ANY short list of "Best Metal Detectors"

Best-Mike

PS.

When the Pulse Devil "Nemesis" finally hits the streets this month (hopefully, after what is it now? Six years?), if it shows like it is supposed to, NO WAY Dave Emery will be able to keep up with all the orders. Likely to be quite the lengthy backorder.
 
Thanks for the help Gollum. It seems like someone with some money would step up and invest to get production up and make some money for both!!!
 
Buck,

You missed the point of what was being said in this thread altogether. What was being pointed out indirectly, at least by me, was much of what is written in ads is really hype and some of the "brand new" features really aren't brand new.. It is not about what is better or worse, but it is more about practicality and what is really usable and what is not..

As an example totally off the subject, I normally drive a Ford SUV. (Actually, I have three SUV's but that is not the point). Now, there are some Chevies and Dodges (and some other Fords also) that can beat me speed wise easily between gas stations. They have more horsepower under the hood, bigger tires, and a few stupid sayings in the windows, I guess to make the vehicle go faster. The difference is, my latest SUV purchase was much like my detector purchase, for practicality. TodayI just wave as I pass those same vehicles by and continue on past the gas stations, because mine is a hybrid.

In other words, mine works for me. In practical terms, my SUV gets 2 to 3 times the gas mileage and still gets me to about 90% of the places I want to go.

The same mindset holds true for metal detectors for me. To a wise person, it isn't what is the best or worst, but what is practical and works for them, or at least I feel it should be.

Getting back to the subjects in this thread, Eric pointed out he used to have a switch that would allow one to turn off the ground balance on his GS 5, but has opted to advance his design to now allow the ground balance to be adjusted over its entire range. This gives the operator total control and basically infinite settings from which to chose and not limited to a few.

The same holds true for the fundamental timings issue or the noise issue. There is not a lot of hype, just good basic design involved that is practical built into Eric's designs.

As for getting financial backing to make more money, why? I can't speak for Eric but just maybe, money isn't the driving force. Maybe it is a matter of independence and individuality. Remember, he can work at his pace, produce what he wants, and be more selective to meet the needs of an individual customer.

I know that Eric isn't trying to compete for depth or anything else for that matter. He builds his detectors to work exceptionally well everywhere if possible and sells them at a fair price.

Just my two cents worth.

Reg
 
Hi Eric,

That was one of my favorite features on the White's proto I tried based on your design. Ground balancing is a needed function at times but having the ability to shut it off is a real plus. South of Anchorage we have an area that is remarkably iron free. It is all slate/shale type material with a very low iron mineral content. Plus, the gold tends to be on the small size. Normally the area calls for a VLF detector.

I got the proto in winter and so had no chance to try it, but I'm looking forward to using another this summer in straight PI mode to hunt smaller gold. I'm hopeful the extra power afforded in low mineral by not using the ground balance will pull up some gold the VLF units are missing.

I hope you get a cut based on unit sales becasue I'm going to sell a lot of those machines!

Steve Herschbach
 
Hi Steve

In case you missed it in Reg's post, shutting off the ground balance on the new GS5C is now accomplished without the need of a separate GB on/off switch. The range of ground balance has been expanded in the control, so there is no need for the switch. Just turn the main GB control to minimum. It will be in a straight PI mode.
 
Hi Steve,

The ability to turn off the ground balance (GB) is still there on the GS 5C but it is done a little differently. You mentioned you have some very mild ground you want to hunt with a PI. Well, it is possible that you will still need a little ground balance signal for the best results. Now you can do that. If it appears none is really needed, simply turn the control to minimum and no more, or at least, minimal GB applied.

The expanded range works great for this purpose. Earlier designs had the off feature but when on, the range was quite limited and a significant amount of GB was applied. With this expanded range, better control over the disc is possible also.

This ability to manually adjust the ground balance really has more advantages than one realizes. I know you mentioned you like the auto ground balance, but I think you will find this feature can also balance out weaker gold signals also. With a manual control, you know just where certain items such as basalt rocks are eliminated. So, a quick twist and one will have a pretty decent idea of whether the unknown target is a piece of basalt or not.

Now, Eric is going to kill me for this one, but the latest design has another potential and that is one can add a second GB pot for a distinct second setting. The latest GS 5 has two pots but one is a vernier control. My idea is a Little different. You will have two pots ok but switch between them for a very quick check of targets. This could be used for the disc purposes or for checking something like a suspected piece of basalt.

Lets say you have a common or typical basalt mixed in with the other rocks and that basalt generates a distinct response which makes it difficult to tell from a gold nugget. Now, with two independent settings, one could be set to balance out the basalt while the other used for normal hunting. Now, when one of those iffy targets are encountered, simply actuate a toggle sw and make a quick check. Since you have total control over the settings, you will have a much better idea of just what is beneath the coil and what is being balanced out..

I thought I would just toss this in for fun and frustration.

Reg
 
Hi Reg,

I actually prefer manual ground balance but I like having auto as an option for some scenarios. I guess I'm just greedy and want it all!

The dual GB idea is brilliant. I do not know what Minelab is doing with smooth mode but I suspect it is something similar. Normally the tones flip about mid-point. In smooth mode the tones flip at two locations. The first is probably the normal ground balance point and the second the basalt balance point. I promised some time ago to give you some test items and tones to illustratye this and will do so today and get back to you.

Steve Herschbach
 
Hi Bill,

Yup, caught that. An expanded range is a good thing for sure.

Eric better look out or the drip-feed guys will be getting on his case! I for one prefer to see a unit continually improved as there is little made by man that can't be made better over time. What frustrates me is when a manufacturer just sits on a product forever. The Garrett Stinger is my favorite example of a machine stuck in a time warp.

Sounds like the Goldscan just keeps getting better and better!

Steve Herschbach
 
Hi Steve,

I have a pretty good idea of what ML is doing with the Smooth mode and it can be duplicated with the GS 5 fairly easily by just turning it on and adjusting for normal operation. Unless Whites dramatically changes the design, you will be surprised to find the smooth mode noise level and ground signal is really about the same as that normally found on the Whites units also. To fine tune the GS 5 to the the sensitive smooth mode, simply adjust the ground balance to the right setting and set the delay for minimum.

As for auto ground balance, I have mainly hunted all across AZ and limited areas in Colorado and I have yet to find anywhere where auto ground balance is needed on a PI. Generally, I can turn mine on and set it without even checking and it will work flawlessly. However, I have also found I can turn the GB down and operate with a little more ground response (only noticeable if I quickly move the coil up and down) and gain depth.

Besides, what I have found is auto ground balance has a tendency to tune out nuggets, which is something I do not like. Our ground simply does not change that much. The ground signal may get more intense or weaker as you change areas, but overall, that is all that does change. The only mineral exception we have is, as Candy noted, we have a lot more black sand to deal with here in the US and this is what wreaks havoc on VLF's but not on many PI's. Fortunately, when Eric is through internally balancing his detectors, black sand is basically a non issue. I didn't realize that black sand was rare in OZ, which probably explains some of the design differences.

I am looking forward to your opinion of the new Whites when it comes out. I would like to try one to see just what differences there are also. That way I would have a better idea of just what is going on.

Reg
 
[quote buck]Reg, is there any dealers around Yuma/ El Centro?? Would like to check one out.[/quote]

Hi Buck,

I am assuming you are asking about whether there is a dealer for the GS 5 near Yuma area? The answer is no. The only dealer here in the US is Surfscanner (see their banner at the top of this forum page).

Now, I am sure there will be some changes between Eric's GS 5 and the new Whites PI coming out soon, but there should be a lot of similarities also. So, you will be able to get a somewhat better idea of the fundamental design and how this type of PI works very shortly when the new Whites is officially on the market. Hopefully, that will be very soon. So, once it is out, I would expect any Whites dealer near your location will have one or two to look at. However, keep in mind that there are a whole lot of Whites dealers and if all of them want at least one unit, there could be a shortage of them at the onset.

Reg
 
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