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Compare The Competition To Your Sovereign Or Excal

Synthnut,

I can guarantee you that the GT will go just as deep as the E-Trac or any of the Explorer models. Like you mentioned, it's really just the bells and whistles you're doing without. There is a performance difference between the Sovereign and E-Trac but it's mostly processing speed etc. At the end of the day and for raw performance the GT is more than a match. The E-Trac will no doubt have better target separation than the Sovereign amongst other things due to it's faster processor.

I am buying an E-Trac this week to go along side my GT. I think between those 2 machines I've got my bases covered pretty darn well. I owned an Elite previously and I've never had any complaints with the Sovereign line. It's a basic yet powerful Minelab machine.
I think the E-Trac is the first Minelab detector to outdo the Sovereign in certain departments. Otherwise I've always found that the Sovereign could easily give any model Explorer a run for it's money on land and will eat it alive on the beach. Minelab almost made the Sovereign a little too good IMO. I owned an EXII and an SE and the Sovereign coul stand it's ground without problems.

With that said though I'm also VERY excited to get out and play with the E-Trac :) It's going to fill the gaps left by my Sovereign.
~Joseph
 
On one of our club sites (you can imagine how well detected it's been over the years!) I saw a member with an Etrac.
"Pah" I thought, "what a waste of money". I proudly turned on my brand new GT and within 20 feet of the car found a medieval Spindle Whorl (A lead UFO shaped thing decorated with lines and dots) about 600/700 years old. Now this was my first ever find with the GT and this came up from about 6 inches - it's about an inch across and half an inch thick. "Average" I thought. Unfortunately nothing else deep came up that morning from me apart from a plough shear -which was in New Zealand!

I was taking a break near my car and idly chatting to the member with the Etrac. He was just messing about with it and was half-heatedly sweeping it in front of him just in front of me. It gave a clear signal.

He looked at the meter "Oh crap" he said.
"What is it?" I asked
"Not sure" he said, and added "Oh, I'll dig it anyway just to see". 2 Feet later....and he pulled out civil war period (1640s sort of) ferrous buckle about 2 inches across by 1 inch. :yikes: I have never seen anything like it!! Easily 2 feet down this object had been picked up by the Etrac!! Honestly I would never have believed it had I not seen it!

I've never owned an Etrac, but I sure plan to save up on that performance!! I'm not rubbishing the GT as it's an excellent detector and much, much better than the X-terra 30 I had prior to getting it. I just can't argue with what I saw that Etrac do! The GT will pull up large iron at that depth but I'm sure it wouldn't have picked that buckle up?? Am I wrong? In the UK, 2 foot of clay plough soil is a long way down.

One detector I would give a fond mention to is the Garrett treasure ace (can't remember the number, but the thing was green with one control knob). It was superb and at least a rival for the X-terra30. I found more with that than anything I ever had. It wasn't deep, but I suspect it was more sensitive than most detectors 2x/3x/4x it's price.
 
It's not so much processor speed that I'm talking about in feeling detached from a machine loaded with software. Yes, that's an obvious problem in something like a high end Whites or even the VDI lagging behind the audio on the Explorer. But, even if the machine is so fast that it's displaying information in and sounding off it's audio in "real time" with no lag at all there is still a potential problem there. With whatever it's doing to that information via software and processing what it spits out in VDI or audio (even if it's lightning fast with no lag) can be sanitized and sterilized or "morphed" into something totally detached from what that original signal was. It's kind'a like buying a steak in a nice clean wrapper at the grocery store versus having to go out in a muddy field and shoot a cow to get that steak. OK, that's a bad analogy but you get the idea. I'm not saying I don't like computerized detectors. I do, but despite processor speed there is the very real potential to "lose" something when the machine runs the signal through so much software. That's why many analog meter guys are such die hards when it comes to leaving those machines. That's also why Tesoro users are such "purists" in terms of listing to pure and unabashed audio coming from their units. I'm not exactly a fan of either one of those camps, but I do fall somewhere in between the digital and analog age when it comes to how much "PlayStation" a machine has going on in it's head when I just want to hear and see the darn target without it deciding just how and why it will present it to me. There in lies the difference. A computerized detector done right can be an awesome tool. One done wrong with the wrong kind of software can decrease it's performance IMHO.
 
only owned 3 different detectors over last 20 years..... pros and cons...... my first machine--- gta - 1000 by garrett.. lots of good finds with it.. deepest silver i ever found with it was a walking liberty at 9in in ashy soil.. great for cherry picking shallow clad ..cons- poor depth in any kind of tilled soil,,, couldnt find gold in a jewelry shop..... 2nd machine ----- whites 5900. great depth.. loves copper. it likes silver and occasionally sniffs out gold...exellent cherry picker with the 5.3in coil. 3rd machine-- sov gt exellent depth if conditions are right.. only found 2 silvers with it both half reales which it hit hard on. this machine picks up were the 5900 leaves off.. better depth and it will hit on some of the lower tone things that the whites wont / such as buttons ' bullets etc.... it will find occasional gold.. absolutley incredible depth at the beach .. i use the 15in wot coil ... dimes and pennies and quarters up 15 inches deep .. toy cars and pocket knives 24inches deep... cons its a little heavy but not unmanagable.. every machine has its use depending on what and where you are huntin. .
 
I think my 1st question would be, how do you know the sound is being "morphed" by the detectors filtering? I'm just trying to understand if there is any legitimate credibility in that or you're just worrying over nothing. It's always been my understanding that any effect caused by filtering would be displayed more visually which is why you will hear many experienced detectorists say 'go by audio 1st and use visual as a backup.'
IMO the detector can digitally filter a quarter and make it sound like a duck as long as a quarter always sounds like a duck when I run over one with my coil.

The Sovereign for me is great because of it's simplicity. No complicated menus to go through. You don't have to worry about checking a box which may reduce you're chances of finding a certain type of target or reducing depth etc. You get pure raw power with very ear friendly audio. Twist a couple knobs and voila!
It's also a great detector for someone like me who likes to dig everything and doesn't require any serious bells and whistles on my machine.

With that said, I am also buying an E-Trac for those times when having those bells and whistles will benefit me out in the field or having a faster machine will assist me in weeding through trash and iron. However by learning the strengths and weaknesses of analog versus digital it will definitely put a person in a far better position to be a great hunter and increase the odds that you're not missing anything IMO. I honestly think that any serious hunter should own one of each to tell you the truth. Different tools for different jobs as they say.

Like you said,"A computerized detector done right can be an awesome tool. One done wrong with the wrong kind of software can decrease it's performance." Good thing for us Minelab knows how to do it right :)
I hate being a Fanboy but it's so hard not to be when Minelab just has such kick-butt technology in it's machines, both digital and analog.

~Joseph


Critterhunter said:
It's not so much processor speed that I'm talking about in feeling detached from a machine loaded with software. Yes, that's an obvious problem in something like a high end Whites or even the VDI lagging behind the audio on the Explorer. But, even if the machine is so fast that it's displaying information in and sounding off it's audio in "real time" with no lag at all there is still a potential problem there. With whatever it's doing to that information via software and processing what it spits out in VDI or audio (even if it's lightning fast with no lag) can be sanitized and sterilized or "morphed" into something totally detached from what that original signal was. It's kind'a like buying a steak in a nice clean wrapper at the grocery store versus having to go out in a muddy field and shoot a cow to get that steak. OK, that's a bad analogy but you get the idea. I'm not saying I don't like computerized detectors. I do, but despite processor speed there is the very real potential to "lose" something when the machine runs the signal through so much software. That's why many analog meter guys are such die hards when it comes to leaving those machines. That's also why Tesoro users are such "purists" in terms of listing to pure and unabashed audio coming from their units. I'm not exactly a fan of either one of those camps, but I do fall somewhere in between the digital and analog age when it comes to how much "PlayStation" a machine has going on in it's head when I just want to hear and see the darn target without it deciding just how and why it will present it to me. There in lies the difference. A computerized detector done right can be an awesome tool. One done wrong with the wrong kind of software can decrease it's performance IMHO.
 
Agile,
I am pretty much in the same league as you are as far as how I am using both the E Trac and the Sovereign ....The Sovereign has a Gold fetish, and loves to go to the beach .......The ETrac get's dressed up and can fit just about anywhere , but has all the bells and whilstels when you either go into trashy parks or schools and can descriminate and seperate really well and show it's results ......The Sovereign can do the same thing, but not have the same versatility as the E Trac .....YES , it can find a lot of what the E Trac can, but you really have to decipher a lot more to recognize what it's telling you .... I am a musician , hense my name ( synthnut ) I have played keyboard professionally for many years, and still have many of my older analog synthesizers .....They were very simple , sometimes finicky, but very ROBUST in their tone .....Bass notes are THICK like no digital machine can produce and mostly because of the filters in the synth .... Then came digital ....Digial could make a silk purse out of a cows ear !!!.....You had all the bells and whistles , and could get numerous sounds out of this synth that you couldn't get with the analog machine .....The bass was good, but did not have the GUTS that the analog machines had .....There was a certain DENSITY and THICKNESS in the tone ....It was more organic so to speak from the analog machines ...It was a more PURE tone rather than a synthesized tone ..... The pitch on the old analog machines would drift on certain machines .....The digital machines were rock solid ..... There is a LOT to be said for BOTH technology's ......The analog is simple elegance .....The digital is refined variety .......Another technology as a comparison would be playing guitar thru a Tube amplifier , as opposed to playing thru a Solid State amplifier .....The tube amp will give you a much thicker , and a more robust guitar tone ....A simple pure tone !!.....Plug into a Solid State amp, and it's clean and precise .......Some instruments that need to be played cleanly sound GREAT thru a Solid State amp , but a lot of instruments sound better thru a Tube amp !!.....The point I am trying to get at is that THEY BOTH HAVE THEIR PLACE !!!...... There's plenty of room for both to co exist in your arsenal for finding treasure .....This is why I have both the E Trac and the Sovereign GT ..... Botth have multi frequencies to hunt most soil conditions , so I think I have the best of both worlds ....analog and digital ...... All I need now is more time to play !!!.......Jim
 
That's interesting in that you compared analog and digital synthesizers as I was going to use that as an example. A group called Social Distortion several years back did an entire album using old analog equipment because of the "raw" sound it produced that couldn't be replicated with digital equipment. It gave the album a "warmer" sound as well.

Concerning how do I know if a machine is going to morph or sanitize a signal's audio...There are certain brands of "computerized" detectors that do this. Rather than produce a nice drawn out "raw" audio signal they'll convert what the coil sees into a simple beep ID. From the very quick and unpleasant experience I had using a Whites Prizm I think this machine did this, but I only used one to help somebody set it up and it's been a while so I can't say for sure. I just remember going over a coin with it and instead of hearing a telling long audio response all I heard was a short sanitized beep. My Explorers to me had a little too much of this, though not nearly what other machines have in that respect. I don't like the software converting the audio into a specific ID in such a large fashion that I'm getting a single "word" rather than the entire sentence that the target is trying to say, if you know what I mean. The VDI lag on the Explorer was an obvious problem due to it's processing, but I still don't trust how a machine interprets a target into a VDI response in certain respects.

That's one of the things I like about the Sovereign. The VDI appears to be tied more directly to it's audio. It hears a signal and sounds off to it. The target's conductivity is converted into a voltage level that is output to the meter. These Sovereign meters are nothing more than volt meters. In that way the VDI response is much more "pure" and instant than even machines with much faster recovery speeds. You'll see what I mean after using one for a while compared to say an Explorer.

The big question for me is this- Am I going to feel detached on the Etrac from what the coil is seeing in the ground by either it's audio or VDI processing of that signal? I don't know until I use one for any length of time, but I can tell you that this wasn't something I heard talked about much in the Explorer forums over the years....Yet this "detached" feeling from the detector was very real to me. I didn't like it's shorter audio response and I didn't like the VDI feeling out of phase with it. That's what I'm worried about with the Etrac. Even if it's audio and VDI is "instant", I'm worried I'll find it's processing of that signal leaves me with wanting more information, or at least a signal that hasn't been "corrected" or cleaned up in certain ways.

There are many ways this can happen...Some machines take a slightly scratchy signal and smooth it out for output to the VDI or audio. You sweep over that target with a machine that isn't prone to that and you can hear the slight telling "iffy" audio, or at least see the VDI be somewhat unstable. Another potential problem is with how the machine processes the ground signal. That's one of the things I don't care about automatic ground tracking. It can take a deep target at fringe depth and smooth it out as it tracks the ground so that you'll never hear it, or at the very least the target quickly disappears after you've swept over it a few times to investigate it. I always used fixed ground balance on machines that offered both features. The only time I would ever use track is when the ground was so disturbed that it changed so quickly from "hot to cold" and as a result a static ground balance might miss targets. The same thing can be said for hot rock rejection on some machines. Use that feature and I guarantee you that you are missing some coins at fringe depth or in heavy minerals.

I think in one respect we are missing the trees for the forest when it comes to the Sovereign. It has controls in the style of an "analog" detector but that does not mean it isn't into the digital age in terms of the electronics in the box. Just to run that many frequencies all at once as well as the other aspects that revolve around BBS technology makes it a very "modern" machine in many respects. In fact, despite it's first release years ago the sophistication of the electronics in this detector is well beyond the capabilities of some top of the line detectors made by other companies costing much more in price. Things like BBS eliminating the need for a ground balance, which is very different than a "automatic" or "fixed" balance on other machines that come hardwired that way from the factory. Some have constant ground tracking in them, while others that are "automatic" are really just set at a certain ground balance from the factory. Result is they never achieve the highest performance they could if you could change that setting, and as said automatic tracking has it's problems. BBS doesn't handle the ground signal in the same way as these or just about any other VLF detector on the market. The technology behind that multifrequency is the reason why it doesn't need one, and the reason why they seem to excell in the worst of ground conditions with perfect ID at depth while other machines can't even run stable at such a site.

I'm not knocking the Etrac. I plan to buy one some day. I just hope it lives up to what I expect in a computerized detector. Just like in a sports car I want to "feel" the ground under my wheels (or coil in this instance) to allow me to drive it at top performance. Where that line is drawn is very subjective based on how people expect a machine to respond for them. I won't know for myself until I try one, but if it's even half as bad in that respect as my Explorers were then it's too much software for me.

I'll relate one more anology to the above and then be done with it. Some modern aircraft are "fly by wire" in that they no longer use direct or hydraulic controls in order to control various aspects of the plane's control surfaces. When this style of plane first came out some complained that they lost the "feel" of the plane in the process. On some equipment (not sure if they do it with planes) this loss of feel over the control is compensated for by introducing resistance to the controls. The computer senses what you are trying to do and moves an object based on that. It then senses the amount of resistance that object is producing and then converts that back into a digital signal to send to the control. The control then produces a certain amount of artificial "resistance" in order to mimic what is going on and so that you can feel it.

That kind of setup just makes no sense to me. Not only do you know have many more parts that can go bad, but I feel something is Lost In Translation in the process. As we all know that movie was awful, and so can too much software gumming up the works of a detector. :biggrin: Bet I'm the first person in the world to ever draw those two parallels together to make a point. :biggrin: I just hope the Etrac doesn't give me the feeling of "flying by wire" in certain respects. That's all I'm saying...
 
I would tend to agree with critter - the more gates the sheep have to go through, the more some of them can get locked out and the longer it takes to get from a to b. While I saw an amazing demonstration of the Etracs potential depth, I too worry about more processes meaning a less "pure" signal. And if you have such a design where every aspect of the machines detecting capability is liable for change by the operator then you make it even worse..(factor in systems that can accept some and reject others in amazing combinations; put the human brain into the mix and it has every potential for error, operator or otherwise!).

For me, metal detecting is about detecting metal. I just want to have a slight "heads up" if it might be iron, every single thing else I dig....end of story. If you can't be bothered to dig then you've chosen the wrong hobby, just look at all the threads about "trash signals which turned out to be goodies" if you want any proof. In the UK on most inland sites there will be iron, due to the thousands of years of metalworking in Europe and the thousands of years of farming, it's a pain, so I demand some limited basic discrimination (which the GT gives me in abundance) but I can't imagine anyone in their right mind not being bothered to dig a signal on a beach??? Everyone knows that aluminium can give a copy signal to various rings, so the choice is yours - dig every good signal, or miss some stuff. It's simple :ranting:
 
When you find the detector that jsut DOES IT for you , you have a LONG relationship with this machine .....You learn the machine backwards and forwards ....You know every little chip, chirp, squeek , squack , that comes from the thing ...... You get to know what you are digging before you dig it ..... The Sovereign in more of a HYBRID machine where the analog is mixed with the digital .....I call it an analog machine because the most of what I am hearing is a VCO rising higher or lower depending on what's in the ground that it's reading ..... I don''t much think about all the frequencies that are running which is digital , because they work in the background ....I am listenning to an analog signal coming thru my phones , so I simply call the Sovereign an analog machine becuse of this ..... The meter is an add on , and without it , the Sov. has a bunch of knobs that you turn for various effects .....Ths too is an analog type setup .... So now you have a machine that acts and sounds like an analog machine ......The nuances of the tone you are hearing are VERY dramatic with analog ...Turn a knob the slightest bit and you change a lot !!!!.... This being said, you are going to hear more nuances in the tone of a target with the Sovereign MORESO than you would with an E Trac ......You can set your audio up with 4 different settings .....The one that you would probably be more in tune wtih after using a Sov. would be the "LONG " setting ......It changes very much like the Sov when the targets change , so does the pitch .....It's a LOT like the Sov, but will STILL not have the nuances that the Sov. has ......It handles tones like an E Trac handles tones .....similar , but different ...... How much of a variable it is to you from the Sovereign is something that is personal .....Only YOU will be able to see if you can connect with it ...... The "ORGANIC " tones that you get from the Sovereign , are SOVEREIGN tones !!!.....You will get similar tones from the ETrac but not spot on !!!......What you will get is a much more BROAD pallete of tones ....Your nickels will be much deeper on the E Trac , and the Silver will be just as "Flutey " on the ETrac as they are on the Sov. excetpt it will be higher in pitch .....IN other words , going from low to high pitch is spaced much further apart on the E Trac ....... That's a nice feature without even talking about anything else .....Nickels will grab you with the low tone , just as Silver will SCEAM out at you with the high tone ....You will SURELY be kept on your toes ..... Will you connect with the lack of "Rawness" of these tones ? ....Remains to be seen .....Find someone in your area that has an E Trac and try it out for a few days ....You shoud know in a couple of days whether or not it will work for you ......Jim
 
If you think about it, all technological advancements in visual displays and programmes are just trying to persuade the user NOT to dig a target.

All you need is a good aural "Beep" and you dig. Everything else is surely nonsense? Even the first detector I owned (a viking 2) 25 years ago just gave a fuzzy sound over iron and a series of non-fuzzy sounds when not over iron. It was perfect for inland hunting. Why would anyone want more than that? If you think about it, iron is less conductive to electricity than 99% of common metals found detecting, therefore all other signals should always be dug as aluminium could give the same signal as a ring, and vice versa and large copper can give the same as some silver etc etc.

I think people want an x-ray machine sometimes when part of the fun is NOT actually knowing what the find is before you dig it up.
 
I tend to agree with Mentez, but keep hoping he is wrong. I've spent about 2 or 3 years following these forums and purchasing different detectors thinking [hoping] that there really is a discriminating detector worth paying hundreds [or thousands] of dollars for. I've had Compass and Whites and now the Sovereign GT. I've not mastered any of these, so my opinion is still out there. But if Mentez and people who follow his philosophy are correct, what's the real advantage, other than depth and ability to handle bad ground? In the places I've hunted there are thousands of good sounding targets, so many, that if you are going to dig every target, the choice of detector would not seem to matter. A good $150 detector would keep you digging those targets from now till doomsday. But I have faith that my GT will ultimately some day be telling me what is there before I go to the trouble of digging it all and that I do have a few other options if I want them. I've enjoyed this thread so far.
James
 
Mentez said:
If you think about it, all technological advancements in visual displays and programmes are just trying to persuade the user NOT to dig a target.

I love that comment............. very true.

jamesinwesttexas said:
I've had Compass and Whites and now the Sovereign GT. I've not mastered any of these, so my opinion is still out there. But if Mentez and people who follow his philosophy are correct, what's the real advantage, other than depth and ability to handle bad ground? In the places I've hunted there are thousands of good sounding targets, so many, that if you are going to dig every target, the choice of detector would not seem to matter. A good $150 detector would keep you digging those targets from now till doomsday.

I see your point - likewise I have a prolific area, to the point that I could just take a pinpointer out and make reasonable finds (if I could get there before the competition). But in my 3 hunts with the GT the finds it has made that other machines have missed time and time again just demonstrates to me its awesome power. In relation to finds the GT is looking like the cheapest detector I have ever purchased. For the first time ever I feel as though I have an advantage over others detecting the same area.

Reading all the posts on this topic has been excellent.......... really appreciate having such knowledge around..
 
I also see your point of being simplictic with your aproach to detecting .....If this is how you enjoy detecting , then surely a Tesoro would do the job ......BIG following with their machines ...... They will discriminate iron well , and then go to town with everything else that Beeps !!!....If this is the method, why even bother with a Sovereign .....A Tesoro is a lot less money, and they go deep too !!....If the targets you are after are not that deep , all the better .....You'll have a surprise with every beep !!.....

I want more than this from the machines that I use .... Call me spoiled , but when I hear a Gold audio signal, and I can double check the conductive , and the ferrous numbers in a readout that also tells me that I'm hitting Gold , or at least the Conductive number , and I dig down and pull a Gold ring out of the ground, I'm just as thrilled as you would be ......I would have to say also that I am not as much a purist as some of you guys are ......Doesn't make me a bad person, just different ...... Different strokes for different folks >>...Jim
 
Here's a few other older threads about the Sovereign comparison to other machines...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1070438,1072585#msg-1072585

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1247577,1248336#msg-1248336

A lot of good reading there, and if you do a search in this forum for "Etrac, Explorer, FBS" and so on you'll find some other threads with similar content and comparisons. Also, look up a few of JBows old threads.There is some interesting comparisons he's made to his other machines in the past...

I'm confident in the GT's ability to match anything on the market when it comes to depth on old coins or gold rings, and so long as you don't sweep too fast separation is not an issue. Iron Mask is legend on the Sovereigns where it earned it's name, so this machine is more than capable of finding old coins in iron in other trash. I always do these kinds of tests on machines as I own them and it doesn't average signals like all other machines I've owned, even providing a perfect coin ID in many instances.

Now, from what I've heard I'm pretty confident that the Etrac is excellent in trash. That's one improvement over the Explorers I've owned that was desperately needed, but provided you investigate targets properly and keep the sweep speed not too fast the GT will hold it's own I bet. If more people would stop, wiggle, and slowly creep the coil above and around a "junk" target or even a null with the GT I bet they'd be surprised to find how well it does at unmasking targets, even more so than just letting Iron Mask do all the work for you. It's pretty impressive.

What counts in separation is a tight coil detection field and not recovery so long as you swing at the proper speed, and once the two targets "become one" in that they are touching each other no amount of recovery speed can help regardless of how slow you sweep a machine or how fast it is. That's when it's up to the processor to sort the good from the bad. I'm continually amazed at how well Iron Mask on this Sovereign will ignore the iron and sound off to the coin, or how I can lay a pull tab with a silver dime and yet the machine doesn't average the signal to somewhere in between. If you don't get a perfect 180 chances are it will only drop it to like 178 or 176, low 170's in extreme cases. Try it some time.

Printing out the new responses to read later as I have to head out for now, so don't think I won't get back giving a rebuttal if I need to... :biggrin:
 
Hey peoples

I'm not trying to rubbish anyones approach or detector. So, please don't take my comments out of turn, I'm really friendly....:beers:

The reason the GT appealed to me so much was it's legendary depth and all round performance at actually picking up a target, and picking it up deeply. It manages to do this without showing me numbers, conductivity read-outs, telling me what soil I'm detecting on (I have eyes), showing me how deep it is (I have a spade and can quite adequately dig a hole deeper than any detector on the market!), telling me what frequency picks the object up best etc etc etc. The GT, in my humble opinion, doesn't (by and large) signal over iron, and signals over everything else. Perfect for me. I understand beach detecting, and detecting in the USA in general, might be a little different but for my use, the UK with thousands of years of metal working and deposits, it is perfect.

And regarding your comment about Tesoro's Synthnut, well I've never owned one, but I've heard far far far more good things said about the GT in comparison to any Tesoro. It was a "No brainer" really in a vdu (less) detector for over here. The GT comes out tops in every single review I've read over every other non-vdu machine.

It's true that the more money you spend, the more you get (theoretically). And I like to think that the increase in money I've paid for a brand new GT from owning an X-terra, has gone towards a better depth, sensitivity, coil, discrimination to iron. And that, is all I ask for.

Like I said, I'm not having a shot at anyone or anyone's machine choice, just for me the GT makes perfect sense.:poke:
 
One thing I'll quickly add before leaving is that on that field hunt where you saw an Etrac do two feet on a target....From the sound of your description of how big it was the GT should be able to hit that target with no problem I would think. I know hot wheels 2 feet deep are not a problem for a GT, and they sound similar in size to what you describe.
 
I really hope so Critter!! I never actually got a chance to swing the GT over that signal. Like I said before, I've only had about 5/6 hours on the GT so far, and it's already shown to be much deeper than the xterra I had prevously, I just wait for the opportunity to test it over something deep. Fortunately this bank holiday I've got 100 acres to go at which spans some Roman/Iron Age/ Bronze age sites (In fact a horde of 20 Bronze age axe heads was found in one of the fields 50 years ago by a farm worker). I'm hoping to learn more this weekend of the GT's abilities!:detecting:

I would guess that the buckle I saw the Etrac pull up was about the size of a small toy car, if the GT can do that, I will be in heaven!!!! It means all my "old" burned out sites will be getting a visit for sure.
 
Most of the sites I hunt don't have much modern trash but are loaded with large and small iron and I dig every signal outside of iron looking for old lumber mill relics and coins. I really don't need a meter and actually don't need the tone ID or the depth either for this type of hunting but they are there if and when I do want to use them. I can easily put the meter on and in combo with the tone ID it's a killer when doing a little selective digging for deep silver in old parks or the nice lawns of the Victorian homes I hunt in my area. Then there is beach hunting for jewelry that I do certain times of the year when we have our lowest tides. For many years I had a least 3 different detectors in the closet to cover all these different types of hunting. A dig it all non metered relic type detector for hunting in iron, a metered detector for hunting old parks and lawns and a beach detector but now only need and use 1 detector, the Sovereign. It does it all and does it very well plus it is the deepest detector by far I've ever used in my nasty mineralized ground. I'm also one of the few here that uses the other features available like iron mask off and silent search for difficult conditions. I think it's a great all around detector once you learn it.
 
Yea, something roughly that size should easily hit at around 2 feet on a GT, providing you are using say at least the stock 10" coil or bigger. I know I've dug stuff roughly that big at those kinds of depths with it on land, and in the sand you can probably expect a bit more depth.

This was some good and interesting reading hearing thoughts and opinions on various machines compared to the Sovereign or Excal. Truth is that there really isn't anything out there from other companies that can come close to it's depth and performance in all ground conditions. Some might get close in very low mineral sites, but unless you are hunting virgin top soil at the local mulch store we all know how that almost never happens.

The DFX, V3 top end Whites line can not match it in depth on old coins or gold rings. Sure, they can come *somewhat* close if you tweak all those settings on them just right for a site, but the minute there is any kind of "actual" field conditions with iron or any kind of minerals they ain't going to keep up. All the planets half to line up just right for those machines, and there is far more in the way of hoops you have to jump through in way of settings before you can get there. The only perk I've ever heard about these units is that they are slightly more sensitive to tiny gold items like thin gold chains. Just the same, at any kind of depth I guarantee you that they aren't going to get a gold ring that the GT can hit with no problem. Again, in virgin low mineral soil they might get close but I've never read or heard anybody say one of those units went as deep or deeper than a Minelab.

I tend to pick on Whites a lot these days but only because they were my favorite detector up until a few years ago. The XLT was the first chink in that armor for me. Just too wishy washy of an ID and worse in heavy trash than my GT. Also didn't seem to get the depth of the QXT when I compared them. Why Whites has gone off the deep end into "more controls equals better detector" is beyond me. They need to cut the software staff and increase the electrical engineer staff to catch up to Minelab when it comes to depth. They have lost me as a customer because top performance no longer seems to be the goal, but rather most tweak features. Whites was king of the low frequency machines for good depth on silver/copper coins a few years back. If they'd at least put a low frequency machine together with a larger coil they might win me back as a customer. There's just something about the warm/smooth sound and VDI on a good Whites that the Explorer never offered me. The discrimination on a Whites is also second to none. I'd say the Sovereign is the first non-Whites for me that matched and even beat Whites in sound/VDI stability. Explorer depth with the telling audio/stable VDI of a Whites is sort of the way I think of my Sovereign.

We've come full circle here once again and I'll just say one more time that this was not intended as a hit piece on the Etrac. I do plan to buy one to add to my line up some day, and I hear many of the things I didn't like on the Explorers has been corrected. I'm mainly just trying to point out to people that more isn't always better when it comes to features on a computerized detector. That doesn't always equal better performance and can cost you some IMHO if the machine is done wrong. I just hope I don't find it to have that "unreal" feeling caused by the layers of software that I got with my Explorers. I felt more like I had just sat down for five hours of playing a video game than hearing targets under a coil, and you are talking to a guy who DOES like his video games...Just not when they get in the way of my hunting if done the wrong way. I started referring to my hunts with the Explorer as "Lag Time" and that's when I knew I had a problem. Just kept buying more of them over the years hoping this time I would learn to like using them more but that never happened.
 
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