CTX 3030 Combined Mode Ferrous line

[huntindog1]

I noticed in the Combined Mode Ferrous Line setting guys are using different settings.

Did I read that the Etrac was fixed setting of 17 for TTF.

Since the combined mode you can set that ferrous line in the CTX combine mode is there strategies people have figured out that one setting is better than another?

Some I have seen up in the 30's.

The Highly sought out Gone Hunting program uses 24.

I have read if the coin has iron close by it will pull the Ferrous reading of the coin to a higher number. So if you raise the ferrous like form 17 to 24 or 30 you will less likely miss targets next to iron.

And that using the combined mode running the open non-discriminate pattern you dont have the issue of the discrimination masking the good coin next to iron.

 

[Jason in Enid]

I have mine set at 25 I think. Lowering the line will get you more coins, but it will increase the amount of iron bleed-though too. It's all a trade off, and you have to figure where your line of diminishing returns is at. There are multiple ways to ferret out the iron falses, and more you learn, the more open you can run your pattern.

 

[sube]

Jason is right the way I set my ferrous line is by how the detector reacts to the site I am at .
If you have constant nulling it would be wise to go from say 17 to 26 it is nulling on smaller pieces of iron and if a coin is by the small iron sometimes with the nulling well make it harder to hear that target next to it . Say you are set at 30 and your hearing all the iron hardly any nulling you could go to 26 and if your not hearing any nulling you might bump it to 20 . But if you start to hear nulling again try 23 .
What your trying to achieve is to hear as much iron as you can stand without going nuts , this well let you see more coins close or on top of the iron .
If you disc out large iron you well be missing some coins close to iron . sube

 

[Bell-Two]

What Jason and Subeditor said...I set mine at 25 for the same reason.

 

[Overvoltage]

I have been using the CTX for almost two years now. I have found many coins with nails, fence wire and other assorted junk in the same hole on top of, next to and under the target coin and I have yet to find a coin that I'd below the 12FE line. That being said, I have my FE line at 17.

 

[sube]

I have been using the CTX for almost two years now. I have found many coins with nails, fence wire and other assorted junk in the same hole on top of, next to and under the target coin and I have yet to find a coin that I'd below the 12FE line. That being said, I have my FE line at 17.

As it should be the detectors places all nonferrous metals on the 12 line or very close to it 11. something and so forth.
If your not having any nulling at what your set at then no need to set your fe line any lower .

The point here is to not let the nulling cover up weak and distorted signals with more disc on the fe line , lowering the fe line say 17 to 25 let's you here that weak signal easier than at 17 especially in areas rich in iron . sube

 

[foreign object]

Well im confused. Really is easy enough to happen.

Sube are you saying that the FE line location can cause nulling.
I know that disc. will but by your reply it seems to imply that the ferrous line location can cause nulling.

Enlighten me please sir.

Thanks
FO

 

[sube]

Basically the fe line is a disc circuit for iron the higher it is set ,say 15 is high 35 would be low so if your set at 15 you will disc out most iron set at 35 you will except most iron .
But by running at 15 your likely to miss some targets close to iron because the iron is disc out which means you well get a null as you pass over the iron .
If a good target is close or on top of a piece of iron the null will hide the good signal response or make it choppy and harder to here . sube

 

[huntindog1]

Thanks sube!

 

[foreign object]

Basically the fe line is a disc circuit for iron the higher it is set ,say 15 is high 35 would be low so if your set at 15 you will disc out most iron set at 35 you will except most iron .
But by running at 15 your likely to miss some targets close to iron because the iron is disc out which means you well get a null as you pass over the iron .
If a good target is close or on top of a piece of iron the null will hide the good signal response or make it choppy and harder to here . sube

Not saying you are wrong but I have been outside between rains today running a wide open screen in my nail infested yard and I cannot position the FE line anywhere between 15 to 35 and make my machine null any more than normal.

I do need to spend more time with it but it really does not seem right to me. You keep mentioning iron being disc out causing a null which disc will but currently I cannot see adjusting the fe line should cause any nulling at all.

FO

 

[sube]

Lets put it a different way a null is loss of threshold when you go over a piece of iron and your machine is set at 15 the fe line do you lose your threshold after passing over the iron object , dose the threshold return when you have passed it .
If it is a null the threshold you here all the time well go silent when you pass over the iron object . sube

 

[Digger]

In regards to Combined audio profile, the line separating the four upper bins from the lower bin has nothing to do with nulling (rejecting targets). Combined allows us to hear the audio response from 5 bins. What you have referred to as the "FE Line" in Combined audio simply marks the "top of the bin" for the lower bin segment. If you raise the line up, the lower bin becomes larger. If you move the line down, the lower bin becomes smaller. What determines which targets are accepted and which target properties are rejected (nulled) is accomplished by setting up discrimination Patterns in the Search modes.

Here is an old screen that shows the FE line for the lower bin is not the same as the discrimination segments.


[attachment 309777 ctxscreenshotsfeb2012038.JPG]

 

[foreign object]

I don't see the fe line setting masking any targets. What it does do is assign what ever tone you set for ferrous to any objects below the FE line. Move that line up(smaller numbers) to lets say CO 10 and everything below that 11 thur 35 will give the tone you assigned as your ferrous tone. Move the FE line down (larger numbers) and everything above it will give what ever tone you assigned to your CO bin.
I don't consider that masking but doing exactly what you told the machine to do.

Yes iron will at times drag the fe numbers down and if your fe line is to high (physically) you will not get the desired high tone but once again I don't consider that masking. If it was everyone should set their fe line to 35 and hunt.

To much disc (really any) will cause nulling which can lead to missed targets but the fe line placement only affects what tone you hear for said target.

I do intend to do more testing looking for a null caused by the fe line placement.

FO

 

[sube]

Randy if the fe line is set at 15 and the iron target is small it well show the cursor in the bottom right corner . If raising the fe line to 15 as oppose to 35 will you hear the iron at 15 compared to say 35 . That said where would you set your fe line and why . Thanks sube

 

[sube]

After running the ctx for 3 years I have notice that at 25 the audio is more open as compared to running at say 17 the audio is tighter maybe this is why coins well bleed trough better with the fe line set at 25 .
Coins next to iron or on it .
If I had my fe line set at 35 I would not hear any iron at all just nulls because that would be the top of the bottom bin right ? .so the top conductive bins would go all the way down to the 35 fe line correct ? . sube

 

[foreign object]

Digger you and I must have been typing at the same time.

 

[Overvoltage]

Digger and foreign object, I think everyone is confusing where they are setting the line for the bottom tone bin as opposed to where they are setting the discrimination line. For example, using the photo that Digger posted, the line for the low tone bin is set at 18 whereas he has the discrimination set at 17. What SUBE is saying is that with discrimination set up to say 17 you could get nulling and causing the good target to be masked. SUBE, I kind of disagree with the nulling theory. The CTX with its ability to see multiple targets and its superior discrimination abilities in my experience has no problem identifying good targets both with tone and TID while discriminating the higher FE junk. With an open screen, setting the lower bin line at say FE17 is only going to make any target at FE17 or higher sound at whatever tone you have the bottom tone bin set at, not nulling.

 

[sube]

Overvoltage , You probably are right the ? is what you said is what is the advantage of setting the fe line at different points .
Most people detect in the stock program and yet check signals in the open screen #2 why.
I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this What are the advantages to set it at 17 or 25 .
After looking at diggers picture I think I get it he set his ferrous line at 18 but the 17 line is mostly disc out so those signals that fall in the 17 area that's disc out well be silent or null
sube

 

[Overvoltage]

SUBE, I don't know about everyone else but the only time I feel I have to switch to open screen #2 is when I get iron wraparound and I want to check just to make sure. Its usually if I get a signal around 1-2FE and 44-46CO. Having the FE set at 17 or 25 would not change the need to go to open screen #2 for that. I can't say I have come across too many items that fall between 17 and 25FE large enough to null and mask a good coin.

 

[Digger]

I may be a bit confused as to your example. Let me know if I didn't understand it correctly.....
Whether you have the line set at 15, at 35, or anywhere in between those two levels, that little piece of iron should give the audio response associated with that lower bin. And, the cursor should be in the lower part of the screen. Typically in the lower right (as you said). The bin becomes larger as you raise the line. But the target properties will stay the same. In order to get a target to be in a different bin, you would have to move that line to the other side of where it is now. For example, if there were a target that registered 18/34, and you had the FE line set at 17, the target would provide the audio response associated with that lower bin. However, if you moved the FE line to 19, (I had originally post this as 16, which, as Overvoltage pointed out, is incorrect) and changed nothing else, that same target would provide the audio response associated with one of the bins above the line. Which bin (above the line) would depend on how you had set up the vertical parameters of the four bins. If you had set them as bin 1 = CO 1 - CO 14; bin 2 = CO 15 - CO 25; bin 3 = CO 26 - CO 36; bin 4 = CO 37 - CO 50, then that 18/34 target would give you the audio tone associated with bin 3 (left to right), above the line.

When I am using Combined tones, I set the top of the lower bin at levels relative to the site I am hunting. For example, if I am at an old farm site, I don't come across much modern trash. But I do come across a lot of iron. At these sites, I will drop the FE line of the Combined tones down to 25 or so. It is nothing scientific. Just the setting I've come to appreciate. If I am in a park or yard with lots of modern trash, I move the line up around 18. Again, nothing scientific. But it does help me discern some of the early tin foil type trash by giving it the same low tone as I would get if it were iron. Any target with FE properties 17 and smaller will end up giving me a target tone based on their CO properties. Any of those higher tones get my attention, allowing me to work the coil in an attempt to lock in on the goodies. I set Pattern One as wide open (zero discrimination). I set Pattern two the same way except for having a good amount of discrimination. The discrimination patterns I have built are dependent on types of trash at the sites I am hunting. I hunt in Pattern One, and flip to Pattern two to isolate and confirm the target. If the signal (audio and visual) are the same in both Patterns, and it is something I want to put in the pouch, I dig it up. If, however, I get a "good signal" in the open screen, and the discrimination Pattern shows me that it is a reflective signal from a piece of deeply buried iron, I'll pass it up. I didn't do that for the first few years I used the CTX. But after collecting three or four 5-gallon buckets of old iron, I decided I didn't want anymore. One other thing I would add, when I get a target that I suspect is a reflective signal from deeply buried iron, I flip to PinPoint mode with Target Trace. This allows me to see the "smear" created by the target. And based on my findings.....95% of the time, if the target isn't in the same exact location when pinpointing as it was in one of the detect modes, it is not worth digging. Now, if you use this method, you need to determine what that 5% might be to you. To me....it is seed for the next generation of detectorists. HH Randy