CTX in Wet Sand - Deeper then Xcal,GT, Whites Dual?

[CCadrin]

I have a question about depth. Is it deeper in salt water sand then the XCAL, GT, or Whites Dual and by how much ? I do know the advantage detecting when iron is next to good target.

I currently have a GT and a Whites Dual Field and was wonder if I can retire both units. My water hunting style is no deeper then top of leg and my control unit is never submerged.

I appreciate any feedback.

 

[Grilled Scallops]

When it comes to depth, the dual field will smoke the ctx on gold rings, especially in salty environments (I can't speak for larger aftermarket coils on the CTX). I believe the CTX beats the excal and GT, or at least matches them depth wise. I personally would keep the dual field

 

[Nauti]

I would have to agree with Grilly..........you here many posters suggesting how their minelabs will match the depth of a pi on the wet salt sand but in reality this is'nt the case.A good pi like the dual field will always beat any vlf machine depthwise if you know how to use it properly.The trade off is obviously the iron you dig,but overall the pi will get you more deep jewellry.

 

[OldBeechnut]

Question for you is which of your machines finds you the most? DF or the GT?

 

[dewcon4414]

I dont think there will be an argument about which is deeper.......... obviously a PI. BUT..... sometimes depth isnt everything. Examples would be during recent drop periods, or after a LOT of sand movement that put junk in the water, or just not knowing the beach until you get there. In those cases time and how much water you can cover gives the advantage to the VLFs. Then there is .......... you have to get the coil over a piece of gold and you have to know your machine to know its gold. A lot less guess work with the disc machines. Now ...... CTX is deeper over the Xcal in disc and some believe a screen, tone and recovery advantage. Also, the ability to swap those coils. However, hunting in PP with the Xcal really reduces that advantage. But trusting a screen can lead you to not digging targets....... bad idea. So what im trying to say is depth isnt everything out there.

Dew

 

[Nauti]

I agree Dew,I use a pi and a vlf for the very reasons you talk about.Depth certainly is'nt everything but in certain situations it gives you a distinct advantage.
I've had some amazing success with both my vlf machine and my pi and I believe if you are really serious about beach detecting both types are a must.I know minelabs are the best compromise between depth and discrim but in certain situations a pi will hit targets no minelab vlf will get due to the depth advantage of the pi.

 

[Dig]

I dont think there will be an argument about which is deeper.......... obviously a PI. BUT..... sometimes depth isnt everything. Examples would be during recent drop periods, or after a LOT of sand movement that put junk in the water, or just not knowing the beach until you get there. In those cases time and how much water you can cover gives the advantage to the VLFs. Then there is .......... you have to get the coil over a piece of gold and you have to know your machine to know its gold. A lot less guess work with the disc machines. Now ...... CTX is deeper over the Xcal in disc and some believe a screen, tone and recovery advantage. Also, the ability to swap those coils. However, hunting in PP with the Xcal really reduces that advantage. But trusting a screen can lead you to not digging targets....... bad idea. So what im trying to say is depth isnt everything out there.

Dew

Well said Dew! Honestly having tried a pi in my area, I have found that I achieve almost the same depth with my Excal II in PP mode. That and I have the luxury of discriminating a piece of iron after I get a few scoops in. Makes for quicker work and less unwanted crud.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ditto to Dew.

In the old days (1980s), it was true that a beach pulse would get deeper than any standard discriminator of that era. But in recent years, that gap has been nearly closed. With machines live the Sov. Gt, CTX, CZ6, Explorers, Excal, etc....

And to the extent that .... yes, there are some beach pulses that admittedly can go deeper than standard discriminators, you have to ask yourself: "at what price?" Maybe it's because I'm primarily a beach storm erosion hunter. And when conditions are going off, then the LAST THING you need is "more depth". Time becomes of the essence (to dig as many signals as you can before the tide chases you back out). So the last thing I want to be doing, is digging nails (or spending all my time 2nd-guessing signals). Yes it's true that you can cut nastier minerals, and yes you can go deeper on tinsel thin chains, etc... but you can be hating life if you find yourself on a beach where nails-abound. Which is oft-times true if erosion has brought hundreds of targets to the surface, and depth is no longer the name-of-the-game.

In fact, if I was on eroded beaches where 1 ft. or more of depth was required to reach the targets, that's the time I would NOT be detecting that beach, in the first place. I would look for beaches where the erosion has left the targets easy to get. Because that takes a lot of time and energy to try to dig 100 targets at a foot deep each.

Yes they have their place, but ..... the devil can be in the details. I've seen guys with pulse machines chased off of red-hot beaches, where the rest of us were digging conductive signals as fast we could.

 

[OldBeechnut]

Amen to Thom and Dew! My comment is Buy a CTX or PI to hunt the beach's I hunt....innochio

 

[Atlas]

I'm in the "dig everything above Iron camp" and for that reason I go to the CTX and Excal first. Don't get me wrong I have a Surf PI and if the conditions are sanded in and targets are deep and I want a lighter machine then the PI is a good choice. But, like Tom said I can remember when I got my Surf PI and hit some CA beaches where many pallets were burned and nails were everywhere I was about to wrap that thing around a tree.

I think all beach hunters would want at least one good vlf and a PI water machine.

I'd keep the dual field and if you now have a CTX you could retire the GT if you need the cash. However, the GT with the WOT coil is a very good set up and produced lots of finds in Florida and elsewhere. A friend of mine runs a WOT on his Excal and that thing goes deep and is hot on gold. Gary D. in Fla wrote a book on the SovGT and chest mounted his. Really nice set up.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... A friend of mine runs a WOT on his Excal and that thing goes deep and is hot on gold. .....

a friend of mine here runs a Sov. with WOT combo on the beaches here. And no kidding: He can do 1.5 ft. on coins at times. And doesn't lack for sensitivity to very small jewelry it seems. I could not get used to the warbliness of this WOT setup when I tried it on my Excal. But seeing at least as how it's possible: You almost have to ask yourself, where's the extreme depth difference that people talk about pulse vs regular ?

Granted: the pulse *does* come in handy if you find yourself in jet black conditions. We had a certain beach where the sand was jet black in spots. Had to turn my sens to "auto". And found myself limited to 2" depth on coins in that. A pulse would have come in handy there.

 

[Ringmoney]

The CTX is deeper than a GT, LOL right lads.

 

[Fishers Ghost]

Well you CTX lovers could try this little test.

Take a coin sil, Cu, or clad approx 27mm diam wt 11g and bury it a measured 24 inches down in wet salt beach sand (not black sand) resting flat on the bottom of the hole. Fill the hole in with wet sand and let the waves wash over the spot for a while so that the coin location is not visible. Do not mark the spot but take a rough note of the approx location.
Go away, have lunch and come back an hour later with your CTX fitted with a coil that you think will give the best depth on said coin in wet salt beach sand.Or use whatever detector you fancy.

Start searching for the coin from somewhere along the beach about 20 yards away from where you think the coin is.......If you find the coin, your detector is at least as good as my Sov XS running in Disc mode at zero disc at approx 75% of max sensitivitry, fitted with a 15 inch WOT.

 

[CCadrin]

I was the original poster of the question. I have a GT and a Whites Dual Field and I was on the fence of buying the CTX. I actually made the purchase and more then likely I will sell the GT (recently I purchased a NEL Tornado and it is very sensitive. My first day out I pulled a .8 and 1.4 gram 10k ring down about 7+ inches and the standard coil would have never hit them). Yesterday I took the PI out and had some nice deep finds but I dug a lot of iron. Over the next few weeks I plan to take the CTX (after I learn how to use it) and the PI to the beach at low tide and see how well the PI does against the CTX. My original thoughts prior to the purchase was to sell the PI.

I want to thank everyone for chiming in on your experiences and opinions.

 

[dewcon4414]

It all comes down to your style of hunting and your experience and comfort with the machine you use. What works for me may not for you. I agree with Dig here in Fl and Xcal in PP can hold its own against a PI especially if you lack the time behind the machine. We can hear those weak gold targets too and can quickly id them. That brings us about even with the CTX because TID has its limits. We get almost PI depth in our sand but can cover much more beach. Ive been playing with a new machine recently thats a T/R its a little like a PI but its two tone so you can tell iron.... especially bobbie pins that the Xcal even in PP dont seem to notice. I can tell you theres a lot more iron out there.

 

[icurabeachguy]

It all comes down to your style of hunting and your experience and comfort with the machine you use. What works for me may not for you. I agree with Dig here in Fl and Xcal in PP can hold its own against a PI especially if you lack the time behind the machine. We can hear those weak gold targets too and can quickly id them. That brings us about even with the CTX because TID has its limits. We get almost PI depth in our sand but can cover much more beach. Ive been playing with a new machine recently thats a T/R its a little like a PI but its two tone so you can tell iron.... especially bobbie pins that the Xcal even in PP dont seem to notice. I can tell you theres a lot more iron out there.

Aquasound?...that would be the best of both worlds!

I ran a CZ20/21 for a long time and used an Excal for a while also. I bought a CTX when it first came out and put ~200 hours on it learning (and finding gold/plat in the process) how to get the most out of it. My conclusion after nearly a year: priceerformance ratio wasn't worth it so I sold it off and continued to use my CZ20/21 & Excal. Don't get me wrong, it definitely performed as good or better than my other 2 machines in certain aspects, but that marginal performance wasn't worth it to me and for my uses considering how expensive it was. One of my deepest finds was actually found with the CTX...go figure.

Since I no longer have as much time to detect, I sold of all my machines except for one: my Waterproof Mirage PI, which does everything I need it to do. If I was still detecting 30-40 hours a week, I would have stuck with the CZ/Excal combo (one will go down, so it's nice to have backups) and wait until the new tech comes out...hopefully this year!

 

[pasttom]

One obvious side here is that conditions change and one day one machine is a better choice than another. And nothing trumps putting your coil over it and knowing/hearing then recovering the prize. [I know, duh.] For me a CTX learning curve is too expensive (time, money and mental stress). TDI, CZ and Excal are better choices for my conditions and style (a simple pleasure to use!). I see them as tools and picking the right one for the job is easier for me than diddling settings and memorizing target numbers. When my CTX friends start making me jealous with significantly greater finds I'll rethink this.