So what's the deal? I'm a long time ETrac user. Love the machine. I also liked my f75 but it wasn't suited for my kind of hunting. Went in the market for a salt water machine. It was between the excall and cz. I got a great deal on a new/used cz-21. So what makes the Excall better? I know these two are neck and neck. Not looking to start a debate.
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CZ 21 vs ???
- Thread starter EZrider
- Start date
A good deal on a CZ21 is a good deal, period.
I've got an new to me older Excal to add to the 2 CZ's I've got for beach work (CZ-6a that I like to run the FZ-12 coil on and a CZ-20 with the 8 inch coil).
In maybe 20 hours of hunting, I have not found the depth with the Excal that I get with the CZ's. There are hunters who get very deep with Excals, I haven't found the trick yet, even using the same knob position settings others use as their default set up. It does seem to be sensitive to set up, more so than the CZ, and takes a differently tuned ear with different audio clues. Excal runs the DD coil that can give you more ground volume coverage per sweep than a similar sized concentric. CZ's run only concentric coils.
I've got lots of hours on the CZ's and they find things very deep in the sand for me. I need more time on the Excal, but for me, I don't think it will be replacing the CZ's anytime soon.
What ever you end up staying with, I'm sure you know how familiarity and comfort with the detector make a difference. The more you hunt with it and get comfortable with setting it up and what it tells you, the better the combination of you and the detector get. No news in that.
In discriminate mode, set it to 0 and listen to all tones. If you are getting falsing, work the sensitivity down some and maybe slow the sweep some. A low tone breaking or bouncing to high tone is a frequent indicator of iron, like beach tent stakes, nails or hair pins. Slow the sweep way down and see if it stays low tone telling you "iron". A low to mid-tone bounce is a must dig at the beach. Some people say the CZ's love iron ... maybe when you are first learning them. If you run the discriminator above 0 and start discriminating out some or all of the iron, when you get the high tone bounce, you can't really tell if it is an iron bounce or an iffy, deep, good high tone target. That's why I think keeping it set on 0 and listening to all tones is important with the CZ. Once you learn a CZ, you don't dig much iron unless you want to look for iron relics.
Enjoy the CZ-21. I hope you find plenty of good stuff with it.
Cheers,
tvr
I've got an new to me older Excal to add to the 2 CZ's I've got for beach work (CZ-6a that I like to run the FZ-12 coil on and a CZ-20 with the 8 inch coil).
In maybe 20 hours of hunting, I have not found the depth with the Excal that I get with the CZ's. There are hunters who get very deep with Excals, I haven't found the trick yet, even using the same knob position settings others use as their default set up. It does seem to be sensitive to set up, more so than the CZ, and takes a differently tuned ear with different audio clues. Excal runs the DD coil that can give you more ground volume coverage per sweep than a similar sized concentric. CZ's run only concentric coils.
I've got lots of hours on the CZ's and they find things very deep in the sand for me. I need more time on the Excal, but for me, I don't think it will be replacing the CZ's anytime soon.
What ever you end up staying with, I'm sure you know how familiarity and comfort with the detector make a difference. The more you hunt with it and get comfortable with setting it up and what it tells you, the better the combination of you and the detector get. No news in that.
In discriminate mode, set it to 0 and listen to all tones. If you are getting falsing, work the sensitivity down some and maybe slow the sweep some. A low tone breaking or bouncing to high tone is a frequent indicator of iron, like beach tent stakes, nails or hair pins. Slow the sweep way down and see if it stays low tone telling you "iron". A low to mid-tone bounce is a must dig at the beach. Some people say the CZ's love iron ... maybe when you are first learning them. If you run the discriminator above 0 and start discriminating out some or all of the iron, when you get the high tone bounce, you can't really tell if it is an iron bounce or an iffy, deep, good high tone target. That's why I think keeping it set on 0 and listening to all tones is important with the CZ. Once you learn a CZ, you don't dig much iron unless you want to look for iron relics.
Enjoy the CZ-21. I hope you find plenty of good stuff with it.
Cheers,
tvr
Vito and TVR, thanks for the replies.
From using the ETrac, Excall and CZ. The Minelabs depth seems to come from a faint threshold change not a tone. I can see this working on big beaches with few targets. But the CZ seems to hit with tone at the same depth. My beaches here in the bug city has numerous targets even in the water. If you were to dig everything you would never move from one spot. So far i like the simplicity that the CZ gives me. Not to mention the break from a threshold machine.
From using the ETrac, Excall and CZ. The Minelabs depth seems to come from a faint threshold change not a tone. I can see this working on big beaches with few targets. But the CZ seems to hit with tone at the same depth. My beaches here in the bug city has numerous targets even in the water. If you were to dig everything you would never move from one spot. So far i like the simplicity that the CZ gives me. Not to mention the break from a threshold machine.
Big Boys Hobbies
Well-known member
Explorers and etracs are my pic for wet sand. Mine ran flawless in Florida last year
stoopstroop said:
My ETrac payed for itself along with the CZ. Love it in the dry up here in the NE. It does well in the damp here too. But in the wet low tide line it struggles here. This is where the CZ really shines. I plan on making videos of my hunts. Ill make sure to post them. I also plan on doing some test of 4 machines. Excal, CZ-21, AT Pro and the ETrac.
OldBeechnut
Well-known member
I'm a Minelab / 3 Excalibur's, Lover for 4+ years now, But I would not trade my 8 inch CZ20 for anything else...Had it out maybe 4 times and got 2 golds. (Still Learning each time out) In the right places each will shine more then the other And It's up to the hunter to know which will at different locations. Tvr, When you get a free day this spring, we have to hit one of your beachs..you can give me some advice on the CZ, and I will set you up with the excal.......EZ, Get that Video running...I can't wait...........tvr,..... polar plunge the 29th..........joe
Andy Sabisch
Active member
I have been in water hunting since the 70's and have had an Excalibur since they were first introduced (still have one of the first ones built by Gary) as well as a CZ since they were first introduced (have both the CZ-20 and CZ-21).
What I have seen between the two in owning and using them for more than a decade:
==================
The CZ is more versatile in terms of going from a diving to wading configuration - no spare rods or sections to add / remove (not an issue if you do not plan on diving but a nice feature if you are)
==================
The CZ can be hip-mounted in seconds if desired, the Excalibur needs an optional kit and then there are cable issues that tend to crop up
==================
In freshwater, the Excalibur has an edge in detection capabilities since the CZ is always set in the SALT mode (versus the NORMAL mode which would be what other CZ models would use - no toggle or knob to switch between the two)
==================
On salt water beaches with black sand, the CZ takes a slight lead on larger targets (coins and larger rings). The two run pretty equal on smaller items although neither one really likes fine chains. I have found ting gold rings or ear rings with the Excalibur a tad deper than with the CZ. On beaches without the black sand, the Excalibur has a slight edge on detection depth.
==================
The Excalibur uses DD coils versus the CZ using concentric coils . . . . the DD coils provide more coverage per sweep
==================
As others have already posted, the CZ tends to hit targets with a clear signal at depth while the Excalibur requires one to listen to threshold changes to get maximum detection depth.
==================
The Excalibur has a more precise tone ID system as compared to the 3 tones on the CZ
==================
The CZ uses standard 9-volt batteries which can be replaced in the field even for dive applications. The Excalibur uses a proprietary battery pod that requires recharging or one can use the optional pod that allows 8 AA batteries to be used but is not recommended to be used if diving due to possible leakage (shallow water only)
==================
The price for a new unit favors the CZ with the 8" coil model listing for $1299 while the Excalibur lists for $1395 (increasing to $1475 in late February)
==================
Most serious hunters using an Excalibur have switched to the straight shaft to provide better balance and reduce fatigue after a day on the beach or in the water - all of my units have been converted to that design (shame Minelab never made the change themselves). The CZ already has a straight design. The optional shaft runs in the $75 to $125 range.
==================
Service on Excalibur's has been a long-standing issue with users going back a few years. The new regime at Minelab has promised to address that but people have lost an entire summer water hunting season waiting to get their units back.
==================
Fisher offers a 2-year warranty on the CZ-21. Minelab offers a 1-year warranty on the Excalibur
==================
It does come down to personal preference and where you plan on hunting with it. When I travel to the beach, I tend to look like a detector shop on wheels with multiple detectors in the truck. I have both and use both and have never been disappointed with either. If you are looking at making a buying decision, see which if these points are more important than others to you. Try to get one in your hands as water detectors are heavier than land detectors and you may find one feels better than the other and that will only get more pronounced after a few hours swinging it.
Hope this helps
Andy Sabisch
What I have seen between the two in owning and using them for more than a decade:
==================
The CZ is more versatile in terms of going from a diving to wading configuration - no spare rods or sections to add / remove (not an issue if you do not plan on diving but a nice feature if you are)
==================
The CZ can be hip-mounted in seconds if desired, the Excalibur needs an optional kit and then there are cable issues that tend to crop up
==================
In freshwater, the Excalibur has an edge in detection capabilities since the CZ is always set in the SALT mode (versus the NORMAL mode which would be what other CZ models would use - no toggle or knob to switch between the two)
==================
On salt water beaches with black sand, the CZ takes a slight lead on larger targets (coins and larger rings). The two run pretty equal on smaller items although neither one really likes fine chains. I have found ting gold rings or ear rings with the Excalibur a tad deper than with the CZ. On beaches without the black sand, the Excalibur has a slight edge on detection depth.
==================
The Excalibur uses DD coils versus the CZ using concentric coils . . . . the DD coils provide more coverage per sweep
==================
As others have already posted, the CZ tends to hit targets with a clear signal at depth while the Excalibur requires one to listen to threshold changes to get maximum detection depth.
==================
The Excalibur has a more precise tone ID system as compared to the 3 tones on the CZ
==================
The CZ uses standard 9-volt batteries which can be replaced in the field even for dive applications. The Excalibur uses a proprietary battery pod that requires recharging or one can use the optional pod that allows 8 AA batteries to be used but is not recommended to be used if diving due to possible leakage (shallow water only)
==================
The price for a new unit favors the CZ with the 8" coil model listing for $1299 while the Excalibur lists for $1395 (increasing to $1475 in late February)
==================
Most serious hunters using an Excalibur have switched to the straight shaft to provide better balance and reduce fatigue after a day on the beach or in the water - all of my units have been converted to that design (shame Minelab never made the change themselves). The CZ already has a straight design. The optional shaft runs in the $75 to $125 range.
==================
Service on Excalibur's has been a long-standing issue with users going back a few years. The new regime at Minelab has promised to address that but people have lost an entire summer water hunting season waiting to get their units back.
==================
Fisher offers a 2-year warranty on the CZ-21. Minelab offers a 1-year warranty on the Excalibur
==================
It does come down to personal preference and where you plan on hunting with it. When I travel to the beach, I tend to look like a detector shop on wheels with multiple detectors in the truck. I have both and use both and have never been disappointed with either. If you are looking at making a buying decision, see which if these points are more important than others to you. Try to get one in your hands as water detectors are heavier than land detectors and you may find one feels better than the other and that will only get more pronounced after a few hours swinging it.
Hope this helps
Andy Sabisch
ToadWhisperer
Member
Excellent post Andy! You've impartially summed up in one place what took me many hours of research to find out when I was deciding which to get.
Joe-
Joe-
Andy Sabisch said:
==================
As others have already posted, the CZ tends to hit targets with a clear signal at depth while the Excalibur requires one to listen to threshold changes to get maximum detection depth.
==================
This is one of the main reasons i like the CZ. On top of that it being a silent search machine. The threshold doesnt bother me with the ETrac but on the EXcal it drives me nuts. Andy, armed with your book and the ETrac over the course of two summers at the beach. I payed for both the ETrac and CZ with money left over. Thank you sir !
EZ
As others have already posted, the CZ tends to hit targets with a clear signal at depth while the Excalibur requires one to listen to threshold changes to get maximum detection depth.
==================
This is one of the main reasons i like the CZ. On top of that it being a silent search machine. The threshold doesnt bother me with the ETrac but on the EXcal it drives me nuts. Andy, armed with your book and the ETrac over the course of two summers at the beach. I payed for both the ETrac and CZ with money left over. Thank you sir !
EZ
Andy Sabisch
Active member
n/t
Another difference that I noticed right away when checking out my EZ's CZ since I am use to Minelab machines .....The CZ does NOT deal with a threshold !!.......When I first tried his CZ I asked him where the threshold knob was because his CZ was not working ........ BIG difference , and now that I am running an AT Pro on the beach to hit recent drops , it does not have a threshold either ......I'm not sure which I like better yet ....It's nice to have a break away from the constant threshold tone though , even if you do have it adjusted at lower volume .....Jim