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Deep on deep off:clapping:

L

LabradorBob

Well-known member
Staff member
I used to use deep on in my settings,but after questioning several members,and advice from Bryce.
i started hunting with deep off,seems to me deep on would raise the gain ,so you can hear deeper signals.
So,if you raise your gain to 9-10.i see no reason to run deep on.especially running a high gain and deep on is not needed.
Have had some great results so far!
Welcome your comments,just trying to realise what some of the settings are doing.
Would like to go through a series of questions,see what kind of replies are posted,
and see what the results turn out to be.
This is the first.
LabradorBob
 
I was under the impression that deep on caused a longer recovery time allowing the machine to give a LONGER response to deeper targets. The gain has to do with how LOUD the signal is for deeper targets. I would assume that deep on with high gain would give a longer, louder responses to deeper targets, which might be missed otherwise. Am I misunderstanding?
I've been using gain at 9 with deep on and I've been finding some really deep, small targets that I had missed on earlier hunts. Without extensive trials would it be possible that both of us might have had the same results anyway?
The settings I've been having great results with are: IM 28, ferrous sounds, sens at 28 manual, gain at 9, variability 10, deep on.
Opinions appreciated - we can all benefit!
Bruce in Ct
 
drkp88,
Thanks for the reply,
Maybe we can learn,as you said.
Deep on amplifies the sound and has slower response time,
because of the more detailed caracteristics the processor goes through to figure out,
what it has found.
So,i am taking it,that deep on is slowing the processor down,correct me if i'm wrong.
gain amplifies the sound without slowing down the processor.
I use also,im 28,gain 9,sensitivity28 auto,variability 10,Limits 10.Conductive sounds.
Yes we can all learn something here.
LabradorBob
 
The way I understand it is that deep on "enhances" ONLY weak target signals...and strong signals remain unchanged.

It is a fact that running both deep and fast off gives the best averaged results for depth...audio response...and target ID.

How we all interperet all of this is a matter of personal preference to a point...but the one fact is...is that running both fast and deep off is supposed to give the bast averaged, overall results to the 3 things I mentioned.

When I turned deep off... my deeper silver and injun' finds increased in a dramatic fashion.
I was finding a lot of coins in the 8" to 9" range...but could count the number of 10" deep coins found on about 3 fingers:smoke:

Once I began experimenting a couple of years ago with different settings..and I'm talking 100's of hours of actual in field hunting....running fast and deep both off produced over 50 coins that year alone.... that came from 10" deep.

I would also add that all of these coins came from sites I had pounded for many previous years. I noticed it was just a nice overall combination of exactly what the manual said.

All this being said...I also run my gain jacked at 10 because I want to hear those deep faint signals as loud as I can. I don't want them "enhanced" by running deep ON...I just want to hear the original signal...whether it be a beep, chirp,,,etc...but I want to hear it as LOUD as I can...not "enhanced" as you get with deep on.

Again...this all comes back to whatever we train our ears to listen for is the combination of settings that work for us as individuals.

For me though...it makes no sense to have deep ON...then run high gain...especially when I've found that the signal quality sounds much better to me with deep off.

I used to run gain at 10...and also run both fast and deep on...and found tons of stuff as I mentioned earlier.

I felt like I took a giant leap forward in overall deep finds though...when I turned both off....and the amount of iron targets I dug also decreased when I turned both off.

It seemed to me that running deep on "enhanced" those deeper iron targets that fooled me into giving them a "shot"...then cussing as I plopped a rusty piece of crap out of the hole:cool:

A lot of people like to run lower gain so they can tell the difference between deeper and shallower targets. I like it high though...heck at my sites there's nothing left at depths of 8" or less anyway:rolleyes:...so the last thing I need is to differentiate between deep and shallow targets. I want to hear those deep chirps as best as I can...and not "enhanced" by running deep on. This way I feel my ears are hearing the "original" signal as loud as I can...and I can count on my experience to make the decision on whether or not to dig.

It's all a matter of personal preference...and we can all learn from what someone else is doing...then decide whether or not we want to incorporate it into our own settings:cheers:
 
Very Nicely put Bryce,and thanks for the reply.
Your experience is what we all learn from.
LabradorBob
 
So,just a thought,is it possible that running deep on could cause the detector to miss targets,because of the
slowing down of the processor with deep on?
LabradorBob
 
It definitely could Bob...but to me...the sound is nowhere as crisp and solid with Deep on which concerns me much more than the processor speed. I CREEP along anyway:biggrin:...so I don't worry much about the processor reacting as it should.

There are very good arguments or debates for a number of different settings...which is how we all learn.

Some will say they miss targets with the gain too low...and I'm one of 'em:biggrin:

Some will say they miss targets with the gain too high...because it gets old to may people to hear a constant barrage of loud sounds.

I know a lot of fellers' who hunt with gain at 6 or 7...and they kick butt:thumbup:

Me personally though...I can't tell you how many deep silver dimes or injuns' I found last year with gain at 10...BUT when I started experimenting by dropping the gain one number at a time...the signal was completely gone once gain was at 6.

Even once the gain was dropped to 7...the signal had nearly completely vanished to the point that I wouldd not have stopped to investigate what I heard on many of those same targets that ended up being a silver dime down around 10"...or on edge.

The same point you made could be said about running fast off in trash. The processor might be slow enough to not pick up that silver dime right next to iron.

I have to be completely honest...I rarely even run fast on unless I am in the most extreme trash because I hate the way running fast on chops the signal I hear.

Am I telling people to not run fast on in trash...asolutely not...but I am stating why I don't use fast much either.:)

Just tons of good pro and con points for any setting which is what makes the forum so helpful to everyone.
 
Thanks for the input Bryce. Many of the places I hunt I'm looking for deeper colonial period coins and artifacts. Your points are well taken and I'm going to experiment on the same targets with deep on/deep off before I dig to note any differences. After all, any success I've had with my SE is from playing with settings you've suggested in the first place. YOU THE MAN !!!
Bruce in Ct
 
I've been reading all the post on the difference between deep on and off which sounds as if does make a difference leaving it off, it stands to reason that it would the same for the E-Trac wouldn't it ??? Does it not have the same basic guts in the processor that make the two machines the same in reference to deep on and off?
 
Bryce. I just read your reply and as always, you give outstanding and thorough explanations. You are truly a Friend to all metal detectorists. I detect for 35-40 minutes every day during my lunch break. I will try deep/fast off tomorrow. PJ
 
I'm not a real technical feller'..but I always try to my best explaining something in a way I would like it explained to me....so I can understand it:)

I hope it works as well for you as it did for a few others I know...and myself. Give it a few times and get used to the sound difference over some deeper targets and see what happens. If you don't like it...then you gave it a shot anyway.

Good luck and take care
 
Im with you Bryce, i rarely use FAST on or Deep on. I creep along as well and swing over an area several times so i know the processor is getting a pretty good look. Fast on chops the signal for me... but there are times you may want to use it. The same with Ferr vs Cond its all about conditions and trying something new when you arent finding those targets or you have hunted an area repeated. Deep on to me is about recovery. For those of you who have used the DFX you know moving the recovery to say 10 vs 30 slows everything down. You notice it may beep well after you have swong over the target. As Far as Gain a wise man by the name of Jeff Foster suggests you not miss a weak sound by turning down the gain and limiting an opportunity to hear a weak signal. Gain to me is nothing more than modulation. You can adjust that modulation so you can tell shallow from deeper targets without looking at the screen. Thats another reason you want to ensure your threshold is set properly when using lower gain so those weaker targets break the threshold. The explorers are forgiving machines you can almost hunt with them anyway you want once you learn them. Ive never been able to hunt with the sensitivity at 28 because i just hate trying to pick out good signals between all the falsing that comes from coil strikes. I almost rub my coil on the ground when i hunt. As you can tell everyone hunts differently BUT their technique works for them.

Dew
 
I personally use fast on all the time and gain set to 7. I like the way deeper stuff sounds and to me it is more important to have a quick response to trash and emi than it is to hear the user interprative chirps of deep on.
 
is the factory preset on gain at 5. if it is should we raise that while trying to learn the machine. i'm using the older xs. thanks.
 
I've been playing around with fast on / deep on, gain at 8, and it seems to work pretty good for me, but I'm still learning the machine. You guys are a wealth of knowledge.
 
Hi Chuck.

The preset gain on the SE is 8...and I believe the XS preset is 5....but am not 100% positive.

My opinion would be for you to leave it at presets until you feel comfortable making subtle changes.

There's no need to rush the explorers because you never learn it all...at least I don't anyway. That's what makes it fun. I still feel like I learn something each time out.
 
The guys over on minelab owners did an interview vedio with one of the geru techs from minelab and his comments were that with both FAST and DEEP on they conflected.

Dew
 
I use fast on in some spots but I quit using deep at all.
I hunt like Bryce does with my gain high and deep made the sound muffled.
 
dew,
I saw the vid of Des Dunn explaining the fast on / deep on target I.D. conflict. I've not notice the conflict myself, yet, but I am still learning the machine. Both fast and deep on setting is recommended in a couple places in Andy's book and thought I would give it a shot.
 
Basically fast works well in trashy areas and gives better audio as it holds targets longer.

Deep gives the most depth but audio suffers.

I use both on as a sort of in between as in the long run I get adequate depth with less chance of masking and better audio than with deep just on.

I feel all of our ground differs along with sweep speed and hearing and general expertise of the unit so should be taken into consideration.

Google Treasureport as Mitch-Pa. has an excellent chart for your perusal and may help you understand.

In addendum do some experimenting in the field when you find a possible old coin target and if you have a test garden( planted for years) or know one that does do some experimenting and find out what works best for you as thats the beauty of an Explorer it can be used in many settings and excell for you in your neck of the woods.
 
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