Detector Batteries Make a Difference

[earthmansurfer]

I've been reading a bit about detectors and batteries and came across a review that mentioned that after this person replaced the cheap alkalines in his Tejon with Energizers, the detector got more powerful. I think there might be something to this, for batteries usually operate in different ranges (depending on the quality). That said, metal detectors probably limit volts and amps, don't they? Anway, what if the volts/amps of cheap batteries (or even rechargeable's) are lower than that threshold? Wouldn't the detector be less powerful?

Anyway, I've been using cheap alkalines in my T2 but I just ordered some Energizer Lithium batteries off ebay (9 Euro for 4, shipped!) which have a substantially higher amperage (according to their website) than alkaline That is if I interpreted this correctly: Energizer Battery Data. The before mentioned article mentioned it's the amps that matter. This got me thinking about the rechargeable's I use as well. I'm going to compare the depth on an air test first and will let you all know how things go. BTW - I'm not connected to Energizer or any other related companies.

Any experiences out there?

Here is the quote, taken from Gary's metal detecting site:

The Tejon and battery's from Andy
Hiya Gary

Several months ago I made the decision to trade my Goldmax for a Tesoro Tejon pro, with a 12x10 web coil I purchased a detector from crawfords which is where I met Craig, he very kindly bolted the machine together in doing so fitted some batteries in called panasonic industrials these are freebie batteries that come with the machine, I left the shop and within a few days I was in the fields with my new Tejon Ultimate, at the time I thought the overall performance of the Tejon was adequate, I tried various set ups but I was a little disappointed with sensitivity towards small objects, your advice was very helpful, but for a high frequency machine I was not over impressed, although the depth was good I felt it could have been better, after a few more outings I decided to change the batteries, again acting under your instructions I decided to go with Energizers.

From the moment I switched the machine on I was in awe of the true potential of the machine, replacing the batteries with energizers totally transformed the Tejon, it now had the ability to detect tiny objects at great depths even as small as my little finger nail at 8-10 inches down with a crystal clear signal, the detecting was performed on ploughed land, this has been a great learning curve for me (I kinda thought that all batteries where the same, some just lasting longer than others, I now realise that this is far from the truth) all the functions of the Tejon were greatly improved from the ground balancing to the discrimination and sensitivity etc.

If it was a car I was talking about you would think I had just put nitro's in it. If anyone buys one of these machines make sure that you use quality batteries i.e. energizers and not freebies or budget ones, our further discussions were very interesting I think you should make more people aware of your battery tests, I cant believe a high performance 9volt battery pumps out 5.5amps where as a ordinary 9volt only pumps out 0.5/1amps. It is the amps that makes the difference.
I would urge people to read the full report on your site

 

[DiggerLee]

This is what the Omega manual says:

BATTERY INDICATOR

The 4-segment battery indicator has 3 stages of indication.
These indications are accurate for a 9-volt alkaline battery.

Segments Illuminated Battery Voltage
4 -segments more than 8.5 volts
3 -segments more than 7.5 volts
2 -segments more than 6.8 volts
1 -segment flashing more than 6.4 volts.

After the 1st segment begins flashing, expect the detector to shut off within 10
minutes.

A rechargeable battery will usually illuminate three to four segments
throughout most of its useful charge. But as soon as it drains to the 1-segment
level, it will then discharge very rapidly.

According to this, when it reaches one segment it has decreased 2.1 volts. It makes sense that a better alkaline battery would provide better operation. JMHO

 

[Elton]

I know the higher end Alkalies power up the 6.5 new version T2 better..It also makes the machine much more stable.. I don't know why that is..If some one has the answer I would be interested in knowing.......cuts the chatter a great deal, and Id's better too.

 

[jordanls78]

While searching for meteorites in Quartzsite Arizona the batteries in my Bounty Hunter Prospector finally died and needed to be replaced. I like to only use the Energizer or Duracell brands because they have always been high quality and last much longer than other brands. The person that I was with talked me into buying some cheap Rocket "Made in China" brand batteries from a local store for $3 for a pack of 2 9 volt batteries. After installing them and turning on the metal detector it went erratic like when I go over wet saltwater beach sand with sensitivity turned way up and the "Low Battery" light turned on and stayed on. Nothing I did could fix make the detector work correctly so I took out the batteries and threw them away. After installing 2 Duracell brand batteries it worked much better than with the Kroger brand batteries that were installed when I recieved the detector.

 

[chuck ky]

i buy the cheap AA's and 9-volt big lots and never have any trouble with the detector performance. the more expensive ones do last longer.

 

[Elton]

Some lower quality batteries are like using about half power.

 

[kraykepler]

Why mess with cheap batteries and have to constantly wonder if you're getting the most aout of your machine? I prefer to use the top brands.

 

[SteveP(NH)]

A regulated power supply is where by some means the output voltage is maintained or regulated within certain pre-defined limits. Think about that for a minute - the power supply circuit in a T2 and all most all other modern detectors use regulated power supplies so even if you buy superduper batteries the regulator circuit will prevent any of that extra power from reaching the detector's other circuits as it's whole purpose is to maintain a steady, unchanging supply of power to the rest of the circuits no matter if the batteries are brand new, or 75% used up, or if they are top of the line or cheap ones. As long as the batteries can supply the minimum amount of power the regulator is set for then the output of the power supply circuit to the rest of the detector will be exactly the same.

Now there are some reasons to buy better quality batteries such as longer service life, better shelf life, more sturdy construction so they will be less likely to ever leak and so on. But the quality of power to the rest of the detector is going to remain the same due to the regulated power supply.

 

[Elton]

I also put together a Doll House for the youngest..It said which batteries to use too for lighting it up. Darn thing would not work till that type battery was installed... So................................
"I'm just saying"..there must be some battery factor on the initial output that sends the current to the regulator.... I do know this. My F75 would not function properly on cheap batteries.....It wasn't an imagined thing either..it was erratic and very unstable.........I also noticed not all batteries are built to the same measurements either. (Length)..maybe that's the difference and the connections make the difference.. Not trying to argue about the regulator thing..but there must be a kind of difference that the engineers made the distinction of which batteries to use... ??????????????????????????

Respectfully,
Elton

 

[SteveP(NH)]

"The F75 requires four AA batteries.
These non-rechargeable chemistries may be used: Alkaline, Nickel Oxy-Hydroxide
(Panasonic Oxyride or Duracel PowerPix), and lithium iron disulfide (Energizer L91).
Nickel metal hydride and nickel-cadmium rechargeable chemistries may also be used."


That does say that certain kinds work better than others - it is just a list of which battery chemistries can be used in the machine. Since Nickel Oxy-Hydroxide batteries are relatively new it lists two brand names for examples of that particular type of chemisty and the same thing with lithium iron disulfide, but these are just another type of battery chemistry and they don't say the machine will run better. Just that they "may be used".

So what they are saying is to take your pick -
Alkaline
Nickel oxy-Hydroxide,
lithium iron disulfide
Nickel metal hydride
or
Nickel-Cadmium

Perhaps I missed the section you are referring too if so please correct me and I will go look it up. Its just I can't believe that Dave Johnson could screw up designing something as simple as a regulated DC power supply circuit. In fact he could probably design one in his sleep with both hands tied behind his back or something like that.

I bet the cheap batteries you used had some sort of gunk on the contacts or something so they weren't making a good electrical contact.

 

[Elton]

Some alkalines are made not up to par too. Size etc..............."You get what you pay for"...........


Per Fisher............(Panasonic Oxyride or Duracel PowerPix),
or suggested..........(Energizer L91) Those are specified Brand names.


Now again, I did not say it was better, or not..just those brands, and types were listed by Fisher as batteries that work...


As far as Mr. Johnson goes.I certainly did not suggest he "Screwed anything up"............. I was just thinking the suggested batteries may have the power required to operate the electronics. LOL....a regulator just regulates the power it receives..If a sub standard battery is the supply source..then the regulator is worthless. say it puts out below 7 Volts..........regulators do not up it..Regulators stop surge from a higher source........in simple terms balance out the flow.........I am no expert but I would think a regulator stops damage from higher power levels. ????????????????????????

 

[SteveP(NH)]

Some alkalines are made not up to par too. Size etc..............."You get what you pay for"...........


Per Fisher............(Panasonic Oxyride or Duracel PowerPix),
or suggested..........(Energizer L91) Those are specified Brand names.

Actually none of those batteries mentioned by brand name are based upon alkaline battery chemistry - reread that part of the manual - The Oxyride and PowerPix are based upon Nickel Oxy-Hydroxide battery chemistry and so they are not alkaline batteries. Energizer L91s are based upon lithium iron disulfide battery chemistry and that is not the same chemistry that alkaline batteries use either. No brand names are associated with alkaline batteries in the Fisher manual. My supposition is that because Nickel Oxy-Hydroxide and lithium iron disulfide batteries are so new they included brand names so the average joe would understand what they are talking about.

Now again, I did not say it was better, or not..just those brands, and types were listed by Fisher as batteries that work...

As far as Mr. Johnson goes.I certainly did not suggest he "Screwed anything up"............. I was just thinking the suggested batteries may have the power required to operate the electronics. LOL....a regulator just regulates the power it receives..If a sub standard battery is the supply source..then the regulator is worthless. say it puts out below 7 Volts..........regulators do not up it..Regulators stop surge from a higher source........in simple terms balance out the flow.........I am no expert but I would think a regulator stops damage from higher power levels. ????????????????????????

My understanding is that if the batteries do not produce enough voltage to meet the minimum voltage set in the regulator then the regulator will shut the detector off. So if the detector powers up and stays on then the batteries are producing enough juice so that the power supply will produce the power output specified by the designer. That is kind of the whole point of a regulated power supply. When alkaline batteries are brand new they will produce 1.5 volts but when they are down to about 25% power they will only be around .9 volts the regulated power supply will keep its power output the same across that whole range of voltages so that the other electronics in the detector aren't affected by the changing voltage as the batteries are drained. At least that is the way I understand it. I don't claim to be infallible so perhaps I misunderstand the way it works.

 

[Elton]

Good luck in your hunting trips may you find a ton of Silver Sir..

 

[jbow]

I decided to trt some DG (Dollar General) 9v batteries in the Omega. It wours just fine but I niticed that it dropped one bar within the first hour of use. I'm going to pick up some lithium 9v batteries to try. I use Panasonic Oxyride batteries, Rayovac alkaline and Energizer alkalinefor all my AA use. I still have about 20 Oxyrides. They were great batteries. They start off at 1.7v so they settle to 1.5 and stay there for most of their life. Most AA alkalines start off at 1.5v and then drop to about 1.3v for most of their life. The Oxyrides make a difference but Panasonic stopped making them. I haven't researched but maybe someone else is making a battery that has a slightly higher starting voltage. The voltage where the battery levels out really makes a real difference.
Anyway... no more DG alkalines for me... I guess sometimes you do get what you pay for. Then again I have stayed at 3 bars for quite a while... however i'm anal about such and really want four bars.

Julien

 

[jbow]

That is why the Panasonic Oxyrides were so good. They were 1.7v batteries, so they settled in much closer to 1.5v for most of the battery life. I mostly used them in my Tejon. I don't know if it has a regulator. In other detectors they just last forever, in some detectors they may increase the power but I don't know.

I'm going to try lithium 9v in my Omega. They should outrun the bunny...

Julien

 

[Ed in SoDak]

There's reasons for specifying one type of battery or another that may not be immediately clear unless you understand how all the various choices perform.

Batteries are measured in volts and milliamp/hours. Devices that use them are rated in milliwatts. It's just like your house wiring, appliances use watts. Circuit breakers rated in amps supply the volts from the power company. Draw more watts by turning on more air conditioners, voltage will drop and current draw will increase. Current heats the wires, voltage drops and a lowered supply voltage only makes it worse. Note the sagging power lines feeding New York in the heat wave. They're hot!! If your house wiring is inadequate, the wires will warm up and perhaps breakers will trip.

So detectors behave the same way and different battery technologies may or may not be up to the task.

"Industrial" batteries are probably carbon-zinc. These provide a really high voltage when new, but if any large current is expected, their voltage drops quickly. So a simple digital meter will read a high voltage on them, but when placed in a circuit the voltage can drop several volts. If you have a meter, you can test the voltages in an operating machine and you can measure it's current use as well. If you have two meters, you can measure both at once.

Ni-cads, NimH, Alkalines and other types can provide a huge current into a short or very high load. That explains the 5.5 amp capability mentioned above. They can't provide this for long, though. Put your meter in the 10-amp current range and connect it directly across a battery, that's what you're measuring. Don't do it for very long, you're just shorting it out and draining it needlessly with your testing. But a quick meter test for maximum current can easily weed out any weak cells.

What current is actually required depends on your detector. Some are battery-hungry, others are very miserly. A detector will only use what its resistance requires, according to Ohm's Law. If the battery you use cannot provide the current the detector needs and keep the voltage above the minimum, for sure performance will suffer.

My Time Ranger has the opposite problem when using carbon-zinc batteries. Fresh ones will provide more voltage than the internal regulator wants to see as the Time Ranger's circuit does not draw enough current to drop the battery to 9 volts. The Time Ranger will not operate at all with carbon-zincs. Not because the c-z type is too weak, but because it's overvolting.

OTOH, I have a Falcon pinpointer that will run for several seasons on the same set of c-z.

Total capacity of a battery is rated in mA/hr. Divide that up in the milliwatts your circuit requires to get how many hours to expect. A cheapo 9-v ni-cad that only provides 7.2v in operation has only 150 mA/hr capacity. A 9v Alkaline will give 750 mA/hr or more. Newer rechargeable 9v batteries are much better than they were just a few years ago and will now run most any modern detector.

An older ni-cad AA might be rated at 500 ma, while todays's hi-tech cells can pump out over 2000. These high-current batteries will tend to keep their voltage higher in use than a weak or cheapy one.

No matter how much current is available, the detector will only use what it needs. If that can't be met, voltage will drop. How a detector handles low voltage depends on its design. Many of the BH models regulate it to 5 volts. As long as your battery can hold that voltage when the detector is on and detecting a target at the sound volume you use, then it operates normally. It's mA/hr capacity will determine how long it can last.

I did a lot of current testing of some older detector models and put the info on my website. What they draw in actual use varies according to volume setting, headphone use, how long you spend pinpointing, detector design, etc. A 20 to 50 mA/hr draw was pretty typical. Thus, we can see that a 150 ma 9v battery might last 3 to 5 hours, but a 750 ma Alkaline could go for 5 times longer in the same machine.

There's a lot of common misconceptions about batteries and their use in detectors, I hope this helps confuse everyone further!!
-Ed

My own battery tests are here, scroll down: "Plugging the Battery Drain " http://www.whiteriverprep.com/vintage/ArticlesTipsAndTech/bhtech.html

 

[Elton]

n/t

 

[otlew]

How about the AA Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries? These are advertised to last 3X longer in digital cameras than Energizer Alkaline and are 1/3 less in weight. Same voltage but more power density?