ok i have been looking at the discrim on the etrac i need to know that as the etrac is great on discrim why doesnt everyone just run with say from 35 to 17 blacked out and most of the 1's because i am tone deaf this is how i have been running my machine with much better success rates digging quality find the debate is what will running the etrac like this mean will i miss good finds lose depth or what i know the previous detectors were run with little discrim but this is a totally different animal and this is its forte i am reasonably new to detecting so i am willing to take any of your comments on board by the way before digging i do use quickmask to check its not iron falsing looking forward to a good debate on this one and some answers
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discrimination looking for a serious debate
- Thread starter sugar
- Start date
Too much discrimination may mean losing a good target. Unless your in a super trashy site that requires "sniping", I would leave as much of the white area showing as possible. Discrimination cuts off some depth and also cuts some signals in half. Im not saying you should be in all metal all the time, but each site is different. Try using Andy Sabisch's coin program or just the factory coin mode at first. Try 2 tone ferrous if you are in fact tone deaf. I swear by ttf and use it exclusively with almost a wide open screen. I have no problem distinguishing the difference between good and bad targets. Your still going to dig pull tabs if your looking for gold, and can slaw for coins. You have to dig the bad to get to the goods. Also when you use discrimination there is a lag time between a target that is rejectred and one that is accepted. This worries me that I could possibly be missing something. Hope this helps, Good luck and HH Joe
thanks for that etrac joe i am going to do some experiments by burying some of my jewellery tied to string and see if i can hear it and then put it in the middle of some trash and play with the programmes it is the continual noise in my ears that makes my brain switch off and basically all the noises sound the same so it is interesting to hear you think i could lose some targets and depth as i need to get below the medieval layer to the roman stuff so would like to get it right i am working in 2 tone ferrous as suggested by nebtrac so am moving forward will post how my tests go when the snow stops lol
I'm brand new to E-Trac, so have not much to offer from experience with it, but from what I am reading, it makes more sense to hunt the E as Sugar described, (when you don't want ferrous targets). If you always hunt in All Metal, and it locks on to a strong ferrous target, it may never hear a weak, non-ferrous target that is nearby. If the machine is set to ignore everything above 17, then you should not miss anything you are looking for, as they should all be coming in somewhere arond 12 +/-.
You have rapid recovery in this machine, and excellent disc programming as well as tone response, so why wouldn't you use it?
You have rapid recovery in this machine, and excellent disc programming as well as tone response, so why wouldn't you use it?
I love discrimination! I understand on older machines and those with concentric coils, the old recommendation about using less discrimination applies, but not with the E-Trac with the pro coil.
I have used the preset coin program exclusively and don't think I am missing much at all. I am digging good items close to and mixed in with trash, coins with serious iron stains on them. I am consistently digging old coins from well-hunted parks that I and hundreds, if not a thousand detectorists have missed. I have tried both Andy's program and TTF and I've not found anything but trash in sites I have hunted well in preset coin mode.
However, all this is dependent on your site and what you want to dig. I am coinshooter working old parks and schools in the midwest. If you are a relic hunter in the south or a old farmfield or cellarhole hunter, your needs may be different and TTF might be just the thing for you.
I have not found there to be any real time lag between signals when using discrimination. This was definitely a problem with older machines and especially the early Explorers, but I am finding targets located amazingly closely together and getting recognizable enough signals on each that I can sort it out, or at least know I need to dig that signal and investigate. The peep of a high tone comes through the trash and if you are listening, tells you that you need to check it out.
I also do not think I have lost any depth by using discrimination. I am digging very deep targets, with good IDs at depths I have never hit with other machines. At the last site I was hunting, the deep coins were below plugs cut the length of my Lesche digger, and beyond the reach of the SunRay probe. I had to remove the plug and additional dirt to get the SunRay to sound off.
I am not tone deaf, so I can't speak to that. I appreciate the tones on the E-Trac, I can often ID a target just by the sound it makes. I'm not sure how this would affect your use of the E-Trac, but I would imagine that the ID screen and numbers as well as the depth meter would be more important.
If you are afraid you're missing targets, by all means, open up that screen, but for me, all I get is wasted time digging more trash and iron signals and no increase in good finds, in fact my good finds are reduced as I wasted more of my hunting time digging trash! I'd rather be digging more old coins than chasing every iffy signal in a paranoid manner afraid that I'd miss one little thing. I'm more than happy with my results (and to me, the results speak for themselves), so I'm sticking with discrimination.
I have used the preset coin program exclusively and don't think I am missing much at all. I am digging good items close to and mixed in with trash, coins with serious iron stains on them. I am consistently digging old coins from well-hunted parks that I and hundreds, if not a thousand detectorists have missed. I have tried both Andy's program and TTF and I've not found anything but trash in sites I have hunted well in preset coin mode.
However, all this is dependent on your site and what you want to dig. I am coinshooter working old parks and schools in the midwest. If you are a relic hunter in the south or a old farmfield or cellarhole hunter, your needs may be different and TTF might be just the thing for you.
I have not found there to be any real time lag between signals when using discrimination. This was definitely a problem with older machines and especially the early Explorers, but I am finding targets located amazingly closely together and getting recognizable enough signals on each that I can sort it out, or at least know I need to dig that signal and investigate. The peep of a high tone comes through the trash and if you are listening, tells you that you need to check it out.
I also do not think I have lost any depth by using discrimination. I am digging very deep targets, with good IDs at depths I have never hit with other machines. At the last site I was hunting, the deep coins were below plugs cut the length of my Lesche digger, and beyond the reach of the SunRay probe. I had to remove the plug and additional dirt to get the SunRay to sound off.
I am not tone deaf, so I can't speak to that. I appreciate the tones on the E-Trac, I can often ID a target just by the sound it makes. I'm not sure how this would affect your use of the E-Trac, but I would imagine that the ID screen and numbers as well as the depth meter would be more important.
If you are afraid you're missing targets, by all means, open up that screen, but for me, all I get is wasted time digging more trash and iron signals and no increase in good finds, in fact my good finds are reduced as I wasted more of my hunting time digging trash! I'd rather be digging more old coins than chasing every iffy signal in a paranoid manner afraid that I'd miss one little thing. I'm more than happy with my results (and to me, the results speak for themselves), so I'm sticking with discrimination.
well i am impressed with your comment and because there is less noise i can increase the sensitivity if you ever decide to run your etrac for say half an hour this way perhaps you will be good enough to let me know how you get on i am prepared to dig the odd can pull tab and foil but have enjoyed returning without all the other junk that i have been digging over the last few weeks yesterday in fifteen minutes i pulled out a horse buckle a shoe buckle and an edward seventh farthing this is on a site that people have nighthawked for years and in ten minutes as the snow came down fast grrrrrrrrrrrrrr this is an awesome machine and will do what you ask of it so let me know please
In England - you MUST dig everything that's not iron.
Gold quarter staters come in at 12-6,7,8...hammered silver comes in the low CO area also. Plus gold artefacts are all over the CO range too.
I hunted Essex, England in March using multi tones CO with minimal discrimination and I believe wasted valuable time digging too many false targets.
If I were to go back today, to hunt English fields, I would only use 2 tone FE with a wide open screen except for some disc on the 01 FE line like Gaz suggests (01-37 and 49-50). You should look at the videos that Gaz has posted on utube and all of his postings here, as well, regarding hunting England in 2 tone FE.
This may actually be the best tone setting for someone that is tone deaf as there are only 2 tones to worry about - high tone for FE 17 and under which is a MUST dig and low tone for FE over 17 which is a NO dig. Also, based on the other settings that Gaz has suggested, Deep Off, Fast On, Vol Gain 30, etc. the E-Trac has an amazingly fast response time - no nulling hesitation. If there is a Fe 17 or lower anywhere near your coil - it will lock on with a high tone hit. And when good targets are near iron - the high tone will come through loud and clear.
I have hunted with etracjoe and we both used 2 tone FE. We both pulled some awesome finds from a field we detected while others were not as fortunate even using E-Tracs (but not in 2 tone FE). Like joe, I also use 2 tone FE exclusively for plowed farm field detecting.
The best test is to go out there and mark a 50' x 50' area in the dirt. Then grid that area completely up and down and side to side in the coin mode or Andy's mode as suggested and drop a red poker chip at every diggable target spot. Now go back and do it again in 2 tone FE and drop a white poker chip at every spot you get a high tone - even the same spots as done in the other mode. Dig every poker chip and see how many good targets were found in which mode and make a record..let us know how you did.
Good luck and HH - and know we are all jealous that you get to hunt in England!!!
BarryNY
Gold quarter staters come in at 12-6,7,8...hammered silver comes in the low CO area also. Plus gold artefacts are all over the CO range too.
I hunted Essex, England in March using multi tones CO with minimal discrimination and I believe wasted valuable time digging too many false targets.
If I were to go back today, to hunt English fields, I would only use 2 tone FE with a wide open screen except for some disc on the 01 FE line like Gaz suggests (01-37 and 49-50). You should look at the videos that Gaz has posted on utube and all of his postings here, as well, regarding hunting England in 2 tone FE.
This may actually be the best tone setting for someone that is tone deaf as there are only 2 tones to worry about - high tone for FE 17 and under which is a MUST dig and low tone for FE over 17 which is a NO dig. Also, based on the other settings that Gaz has suggested, Deep Off, Fast On, Vol Gain 30, etc. the E-Trac has an amazingly fast response time - no nulling hesitation. If there is a Fe 17 or lower anywhere near your coil - it will lock on with a high tone hit. And when good targets are near iron - the high tone will come through loud and clear.
I have hunted with etracjoe and we both used 2 tone FE. We both pulled some awesome finds from a field we detected while others were not as fortunate even using E-Tracs (but not in 2 tone FE). Like joe, I also use 2 tone FE exclusively for plowed farm field detecting.
The best test is to go out there and mark a 50' x 50' area in the dirt. Then grid that area completely up and down and side to side in the coin mode or Andy's mode as suggested and drop a red poker chip at every diggable target spot. Now go back and do it again in 2 tone FE and drop a white poker chip at every spot you get a high tone - even the same spots as done in the other mode. Dig every poker chip and see how many good targets were found in which mode and make a record..let us know how you did.
Good luck and HH - and know we are all jealous that you get to hunt in England!!!
BarryNY
thankyou barryny for your comment i will do the 50 by 50 square when the snow has gone and let you know i am riveted about your comments and from them i am still trying to understand why we want all that extra noise coming though from 35 to 17 ferrous it overcomplicates the noises coming through if an experienced detectorist could blank out this area and hunt the sensitivity can be increased a few notches but the good signals come out loud and clear i am thinking it could be a new way of hunting but what would the trade off be last time out working in this mode i bought zilch rubbish back i still have more tests to do but the etrac does a superb job at discrim what a machine by the way i have a paddock in uk that the cistercian monks owned in the 12th century and there are four bronze age burial mounds in the next field so cool place to detect thanks for your valid input
that "extra noise" is just a low tone grunt and since it's not multi toned there are no harmonics to get you all distracted - actually you grow to enjoy those low grunts for two reasons - 1. when the high tone hits - you were prepared for them and they really break through, and 2. you want to slow down just a little on your swing speed when you are in an area that has more iron than not to pull the high tones out.
you may have brought back zilch rubbish with your screen all blacked out but i would argue you also missed some good targets too.
everyone i hunted with in the UK and all the guys on the MLO website use minimal discrimination. also, even though the E-Trac has a fast processor, using any discrimination at all (other than the FE 01 line for wrap around) will slow down the machine which means you will have to slow down your swing speed.
using 2 tone FE with Gaz's settings puts the E-Trac in a mode that has the least filters of any kind working which makes the machine process the fastest it can - it's been said running it like this is like an E-Trac on steroids...
eventually everyone has to use the settings that work best for their style of detecting and their soil conditions. and let me know when it would be a good time for me to hop over the pond and help you work through your E-Trac settings on those interesting fields you have....
you may have brought back zilch rubbish with your screen all blacked out but i would argue you also missed some good targets too.
everyone i hunted with in the UK and all the guys on the MLO website use minimal discrimination. also, even though the E-Trac has a fast processor, using any discrimination at all (other than the FE 01 line for wrap around) will slow down the machine which means you will have to slow down your swing speed.
using 2 tone FE with Gaz's settings puts the E-Trac in a mode that has the least filters of any kind working which makes the machine process the fastest it can - it's been said running it like this is like an E-Trac on steroids...
eventually everyone has to use the settings that work best for their style of detecting and their soil conditions. and let me know when it would be a good time for me to hop over the pond and help you work through your E-Trac settings on those interesting fields you have....
valid points thankyou where will i find gazs settings please i will try with the grunts in two tone and see if i can hear the good tones through this i might do another 50 by 50 square mark and not dig using gazs settings then try discrim up to 17 and hunt again to see if i get less or more hits interesting experiment and i will post results all this is getting to know more about the etrac thanks for your time
As Barry said.......On the other side of the drink you have to dig every repeatable. But I also find if I am in a Field here in the states or even a cellar hole you have to dig everything repeatable as well. I was just hunting a park/Field yesterday and dug 14 buttons 2 half cents 5 musketballs and a strap buckle. The numbers on the tid were everywhere. I dug two buttons at 12-08. My mind is my discrimination.......I don't care if I dig 500 pull tabs before I find 1 gold ring. Maybe my way is not for everybody, but I am going to walk away at the end of the hunt knowing that I have not missed 1 good target that was not beyond the Field of detection of my Etrac. I too hunt parks and I run the machine the same way. Why not? Of course I dig more junk, but I also have a pretty nice goody bag. Yes it does slow me down digging the junk, but those goodies will still be there for me the next time I go back. You ever hear of the story of the old bull and the young bull? Well I guess it also applies to detecting. LOL HH Joe
Jason in Enid
Active member
There are a lot of "keepers" that will have much higher FE numbers that the standard 12 range. Keep the very bottom iron disced out, then use your TID numbers to decide to dig or not. If it comes in as a repeatable CO number then dig it. Whether the FE is 08, 12, 17, or 25. If you only dig the perfect numbers, you are leaving a LOT of goodies behind for others to find.
thanks for that jason and to barry i have to say thankyou for the link to gaz there is an awful lot of very interesting reading that is going to take me a few days it is answering alot of my queries basically everyone is doing thier own thing and the thing that comes across is that everybody is passionate about this great pastime i need to put some more hours in before i can come up with the answer for myself but this forum is excellent for getting ideas CAN ANYONE OUT THERE GIVE ME THE READING FOR GOLD AND SILVER PLEASE SO I CAN LOG THEM IN MY BRAIN thanks all you guys
Jason in Enid
Active member
Keep in mind that when looking for gold, it can be almost CO number! It all depends on the size, orientation and alloy. If you aren't digging ALL conductive targets you will be missing some gold. Gold coins tend to be more predictable, but thickness (amount of wear) can change it some. Very thin dimes can come in at the zinc penny range. Co-located targets can affect target readings.
oh will they be under the 17 ferrous range i am digging all conductive targets up to this point but dont want to be missing any gold targets so any advise is welcome say a gold target is underneath the coil and is above the 17 line how will i hear it is worth digging i am using two tone ferrous thanks for advice
Hawkeye Jim
New member
n/t