E-Trac and V3i - Some head to head videos on deeper targets.

[Southwind]

I've owned both and in all fairness, while the E-Trac does have a slight advantage out of the box on deep copper and silver, the V3i is very capable of finding those deep ones. The E-Trac does make it easier with less experience.

I got the same results on my E-Trac vs V3i head-to-heads on deep coins and have several videos that show the same results. I had determined the E-Trac was my choice based on those results. Having used the DFX for 8 years and seeing the same type of results when compared to detectors like the SE Pro and F75, but knowing the DFX competes easily when you understand it I felt I hadn't really given the V3i a chance to prove itself. I got another V3i and spent some time getting to know it and it really came to life. After 3 months of using only the V3i I was pulling those same deep coins out of out city park on a consistent level just as much as with my E-Trac. In fact I had several I felt my E-Trac would have had reallyly problem with.

No the V3i is not the quick learning of the E-Trac but don't make mistakestak of thinking it isn't on the same level in the right hands. I've got a few videos of the E-Trac and V3i head-to-head on extremely deep coins and a few go to the V3i having the edge.

Here is one of those videos. With the 10x12 SEF the deep coin was comparable , almost, to the V3i's signal but with the stock coil I had to give the advantage to the V3i.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHCWn2nhM[/video]

[video]http://youtu.be/vpTHCWn2nhM[/video]

 

[earthmansurfer]

Southwind - No doubt the V3i goes deep and is a quality unit. I think what we are seeing though can be narrowed down to my iron mineralized soil. The V3i has problems in it. The overall % isn't bad, only 1-3% but the type - iron, is hurting it. The V3i reads the iron level for that percentage at just under the top of the scale. My question to you is what is the ground probe at in your soil and what settings did you run to get that depth? My ground was 1%-3% mineralized, with the VDI at -92 to -93 (bad iron). My guess is we have different ground.

This is interesting, in my soil I have picked up quite a few 8" coins with the E-Trac set manually on 30. I would switch over to auto +3 and if that was around below 25 or so, I wouldn't pick the coin up or it would be a signal that would be missed. Now, normally in highly mineralized soil (not mine) you can't run sensitivity too high as you get a fog in the headlights situation. But in my soil, I can turn up the sensitivity to max and get depth. I did it with my Omega (but that maxed out at around 7" or so). So, I suspect the V3i should be the same. I should be able to turn up the sensitivity quite high and punch deeper. But I apparently can't, at least not with my current settings. Now, I've spent 4 months with different settings trying to get deeper signals. You reach a point when you have to exclude the operator to a degree and chalk it up to the soil. But I'm not done yet:

If the ground isn't frozen tomorrow and I can find some more deep targets, I'm going to try the V3i with lower sensitivity (both Rx and Disc), in 2.5 and 7.5 single frequencies and with the recovery delay in the 40 - 90 range (currently on 90) with the stock DD. If I still can't pick up the coins clearly (like I said, I would have walked past the 8" and 9" targets) then I will chalk it up to the iron mineralized soil. I have run this detector in a variety of settings for 4 months with no luck on deeper signals. Now, if I can pick up the coins after some more changes, I will eat my words. I don't mind being wrong when the result is to have a highly functioning machine. I love the V3i's screen, buttons, shortcuts and controls - I want it to work.

Also, when you see me swinging the V3i and notice those negative numbers flashing on the screen. That wasn't iron, that was most likely the iron mineralization (The E-Trac wasn't nulling at all there that I noticed). You could see the E-Trac's Fe numbers jumping (but CO numbers VERY consistent, which shocked me at that depth). Further, the V3i's numbers were often jumping wildly - another iron mineralization sign. In good ground (e.g. Florida) the V3i will lock on to coins at 10". If the ground was clean, yeah I investigate the target, but this ground is trashy, there is little chance those deeper signals would stand out enough (audio and VDI) to be investigated and I look for fringe responses.

Thanks for the comments and again, the V3i is a great machine, but the PM's I've gotten have told me that iron mineralization seems to be the factor in other peoples soils as well,
Albert

 

[Ken in Georgia]

I have the DFX and it's a nice detector, and at 7 inches in Georgia (north) is about the most. Georgia Red Clay !!!!

 

[earthmansurfer]

Here is my latest video comparing signals. This is on an 8" aluminum/bronze coin in relatively clean ground but with some iron to one side. I have to say I am continually surprised by the E-Trac on deeper signals and what really surprises me is how well it does in iron, even with all the nulling. I also looked at the V3i in single frequencies, as well as more common 3 frequency best data and correlate. There are more setting to try to pick up the targets better, but thus far in my soil it is clear which one is better on deeper (8" and beyond) targets.

Enjoy,
Albert

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRGyXipFmUo[/video]

 

[ronpa1]

earthmaster, really enjoy watching your videos, but can you explain WHY your vdi numbers jump around so much? this would drive me Bonkers! I can hit dimes an easy 8 inches with the v3i with consistant readings 79 to 80. Watching your videos looks like you have 5 or 6 targets in 1 hole? My soil here in pa is moderate to high in mineralization, and lots of hot rocks, I cant see how you can determine what you have in the hole? Thanks ron

 

[earthmansurfer]

Ron - First thanks for the words. I would be curious of what your settings are. I think it's the iron mineralization in my ground that causes the numbers to jump at deeper depths (say 8"). The jumping numbers is probably why I wasn't digging coins beyond 6" as I just didn't think coins would jump like that. I mean that is sort of how my ground looks from iron and trash. The same was true of my T2 but not the Omega. The V3i is VERY solid in my soil down to 7" it seems, beyond that it really starts to jump around. That is a TELL TALE SIGN OF IRON MINERALIZATION. I'm not yelling at you, just trying to emphasize the fact. Now, you say you have high mineralization, but that isn't all of it. My ground on the V3i reads at 1% (low) mineralization and -91 to -93 VDI (high iron). If you have 20% mineralization but a really low VDI, it might not hurt. That is what I am betting on. I have tried a lot of settings, so don't think it's user error - me! I'm open to suggestions though. You can just PM with those.

Sorry to talk about the V3i here guys, but I guess when you compare detectors it's bound to happen. And, through discovery I think it helps everyone, I'm not trying to say the E-Trac is the best but I have gotten enough PM's about the V3i in soil similar to mine to think I'm on to something. And I would love to solve it!

Thanks,
Albert

 

[Jason in Enid]

Sorry to talk about the V3i here guys, but I guess when you compare detectors it's bound to happen. And, through discovery I think it helps everyone, I'm not trying to say the E-Trac is the best but I have gotten enough PM's about the V3i in soil similar to mine to think I'm on to something. And I would love to solve it!

Thanks,
Albert

I don't think this should be an exclusively E-Trac discussion. People are always wanting to know how different models compare to each other. If you don't completely understand both detectors, how can you truly compare them? Keep up the good work!

I wish I had as much time to hunt as you!

 

[squirrel1]

Albert, another great video. I noticed the depth gauge was a lot more consistent than the vdi readings on the V. Using the v3i versus the etrac, it's very easy to see why more deep targets especially silver are harvested with the etrac. Watching the V's vdi display didn't really give a clue as to the actual out of ground vdi of the target in question. You know it's funny I've not really seen many videos of deep targets hit with the V. Maybe some of the V users will see your videos and have a better idea of what to expect on deeper coin targets.

 

[moose]

hey EMS,

How long after pinpointing and placing the red tee with the E did you finally get the V to recognize the target? I used the V for a year and my Father in law used the E and kicked my butt. I have nothing good to say about the V, as the sales at a certain web site assured me that if I had two years with Whites, I should stick with Whites. This was shortly after asking what the difference was between the V and the E detectors. At the end of the year I was so confused with the V, that I thought I definitely wasn't cut out for detecting. This is just my opinion, and with a 300% increase of positive targets and confidence with the E, IT IS!!!!!! and the V!!!!!'nt
Thanks for post,

Moose

 

[earthmansurfer]

Jason - Thanks first. I do agree with you but some folks get a little carried away with one brand. That is a dangerous road, a bit like Nationalism! (But shhhhhhh eheheeh)
Oh, I'm an English teacher and try to schedule my class in blocks, so usually, in addition to the weekend, I have two weekdays off! So, if the weather allows I can get out and hunt 2 days a week.

Squirrel - The depth gauge on both machines seems fairly accurate. I actually like the E-Tracs better but didn't like it at first as every machine has numbers, so it was a habit. But when you are hunting it is much easier to passively watch a depth gauge line than a number! Think about that! I don't see many V3i videos of deeper targets either but I know it goes deep, I think it might just be more sensitive to certain soils, like mine. Clearly the iron mineralization affects the VDI numbers. Using the E-Trac to find the deeper coins is easier, and I have one month of experience with it, where as I have (I think) 6 months with the V3i. It clearly helps me to understand deeper signals on the V3i - very very good point and I hope that helps others. I already got a PM from a V3i user saying thanks for that as they didn't realize it either!

Mooooooooose - Sorry, had to do that. The V3i see's the target just like you saw in the video. I check before I start filming to see if it is indeed a deeper target. The V3i hits VERY hard on targets to 7" or larger targets past that. The one bigger problem I noticed with the V3i is that on the deeper targets that it hit, it didn't hit them from as many directions as the E-Trac. And this shocked me as I thought the V3i might be better in iron. But some users here told me they found the E-Trac better and that is true for me in this soil too. It still picks them up but it's a bit harder as you see a lot of the iron VDI's where as on the E-Trac you definitely hear more of the coin. I do feel I understand the V3i pretty well, much better than average as doing the videos helped me to really understand responses just be viewing them again. I mean it's like an athlete training and then studying tapes to improve his/her game. The V3i is turn and go though, you just have to get those first settings right and then it's just fine tuning imo.

Thanks again guys and I think some good learning is taking place,
Albert

 

[Southwind]

Love the video again.

Something I found interesting and I see the same in your head-to-head. The swing distance is shorter on the E-Trac than the V3i. I noticed the same on my videos and I think I know why. First having a longer sweep would also put less target and more ground under the coil resulting in a more jumpy VDI. Once you find the target you should shorten your swing to ONLY pass over the target and as littlsurroundingng ground as possible. This will increase VDI accuracy 100 fold.

I noticed on my videos I was using a much tighter swing over the target with the E-Trac than with the V3i which of course would make the E-Trac numbers much more reliable and stable. I think the reason was the E-Trac like a slow swing, which allows more control for a tight short swing, whereas the V3i likes a faster swing which is harder to keep at a short swing. If you know where the target is shorten the swing of the V3i and I think you'll find accuracy will improve greatly. To me in your video it looked like you swing with the V3i was about 10-12" from side to side and only about 5-6" with the E-Trac. Swing the E-Trac 10-12" over the target and I think you'll see a lot more jumping of the VDI numbers.

I think this also explains why some people say they get very accurate VDI with the same detector other say is jumpy. Some are using a very short swing of 4-5" once they find a target, and others are using a 10-12" swing which is adding a lot of ground noise in with the target signal. Tight is right.

 

[earthmansurfer]

Thanks Southwind. I respect you as a detectorist so take your comments to heart. I have played with the swings of both machines. CLEARLY the E-Trac can be swung incredibly short, it is weird how short. Again, the E-Trac doesn't have a "beep" like most machines. It's almost like a mini all metal mode within this short window. Very hard to describe and must be experienced. It is why I told you before I got the E-Trac that I had a real problem understanding the sounds on the videos. E-Tracs (or Minelabs for that matter) are truly different, just like the screen, the two VDI numbers and machine is different! The problem I often encounter in my ground is that it is trashy. I almost can't do a long swing. The V3i likes it longer as you said, I can't do that wiggle with it. And because it likes the longer swing it can be difficult at times in trashier ground. I will try it longer next time though. I have been playing with speeds, etc.


I have to try some other settings changes as well, but for the most part I am pretty much done with this head to head comparison. I think one more day out with both and then I may try comparing the Omega.

EMS

 

[Ken in Georgia]

Reduce the recovery speed and shorten the swing speed and see what happens. The longer the coil recovery time is, the longer the swing speed has to be. DFX was the king of a long swing speed.

 

[ScottTX]

Love the videos. I had a V3i and was not impressed with it. I know its over kill but I would love to see that same test using the GPX.

Most of my hunting is CW relics so I use the Minelab GPX 5000 simply because some grounds, like the red dirt of Virginia (DIV), hide the targets. The eTrac cannot handle the soil as with most vlf machines (not all, but most). So it would really be interesting to see how the GPX would fair in good soil.

Since this winter in Texas the temps have been in the 60's and 70's I'll be out this afternoon with the eTrac stalking coils.

 

[Jason in Enid]

IDig, you do realize that the GPX series of detector are Pulse Induction don't you? That means there is ZERO discrimination and you have to dig everything. Great for nugget hunting out in the desert, terrible for a city park or yard with 100 years of trash in it.

 

[ScottTX]

Jason, you correct and incorrect.

I own a GPX 5000 and have used it for 2 years and you are correct about it being a PI machine. However, you are incorrect about it not having discrimination. It actually has 10 levels of discrimination. Off and you have an all metal machine. I normally run the discrimination at 5 when I use it at DIV. Shallow iron will null out. Deeper iron will null with a broken signal which is exactly what a button sounds like. However, if I turn the discrimination up to 10 I can loose all iron and most buttons so it's a trade off. But, by no means does one have to dig everything.

If I was park hunting I would crank the discriminator up to 10 and go for it.

Honestly the GPX 5000, even with the Coin and Relic mode, is far more machine then anyone would ever need, especially for coin hunting. But, for CW relics it's the premier machine. I have personally dug relics at 19" in the highly conductive red soil of Culpeper County, VA. Most VLF machines cannot be ground balanced in that soil. The only option for hunting there is the GPX, TDI or Infinium. Other machines are useless and the ones that will work only go about 2 to 4". The GPX beats every machine depth wise. It has opened up so called "hunted out" areas.

I was only hypothesizing my curiosity how the GPX would fair in a test like the one in the video against the V3i and eTrac.

 

[Jason in Enid]

IDig, that is very interesting about the GPX5000. Can you still detect gold while discriminating out the iron?

 

[ScottTX]

Jason,

Simple answer is yes, it would find gold and disc out iron.

First let me say that I have no idea how Minelab defines its discrimination on the GPX. Huh! What I mean is what the 1-10 levels equate to as far as conductivity.

Every machine, including Minelabs, uses the conductivity numbers as discrimination (-1 thru -95) but the GPX does not. All it has is 1-10. I could hazard a guess. Iron falls in the -90 range. So it could be that a 10 discriminates -90 to -95 with 1-9 lesser amounts. I do know that old 1800's nails sound so sweet you dig them every time at a -5. I have a collection if you want to see.! Ha! In the same vein I know that nails are a -10 on the conductivity scale.

Honestly, someone like Phil Beck or Kevin Hoagland, Jonathan Porter would be able to flesh this out.

Know this discrimination on works only with the DD coil. Throw on a mono and you have to hunt all metal.