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F75 DE/BP to coils

WV62

Well-known member
Guys and gals, I am kind home bond for a few weeks because the wife just had knee replacement. So I have been working on my spread sheet and the way I arranged the numbers showed me more than I expected.

These are all air test numbers, I know some don't believe in air testing.

Being that all testing items were the same I done a average for each column to give each coil a overall score and started loading them in the sheet by best score within the 2 processors DE and BP which I use the most. Right off I notice the 10" concentric coil was my deepest coil. Then after all was loaded and a couple of days passed I went back and notice that all my BP little coil scores were higher than ALL the coils in the DE processor.

Just thought it was interesting and wanted to share.

Ron in WV
 
Interesting...thanks for the effort in crunching these numbers but I know it is a labor of love for you.

I have found air testing is good for bench marking but the true test is in the real world and there are so many situations and conditions possible you just gotta get out there, try different coils and settings and see how it all shakes out.
Tweaking, experimenting, changing coils in real world sites is my labor of love and I have been surprised out there.

Using boost on my F70 I think I might get a bit deeper with a little more punch though ability in my heavily mineralized iron infested soil I hunt in now but with slightly different settings and the right coil it might be a wash without boost.

The deepest target I ever dug in good soil was a measured 15" with the big DD coil and no boost but almost maxed out sense and thresh.
The small sniper coil is amazing when it comes to depth so I wish I had a chance to try it out on that target but I never did.
In my bad soil that sniper does seem to have some excellent piercing power in both boost and no boost but with different settings using each.

The world is a wonderful but strange place sometimes, switching coils and settings just to see what they can do in the same sites is one of the things that I enjoy in this hobby.
Now, thanks to you, I have more data and setting and coil combination possibilities to throw into the mix so thanx!
 
I've had my F75 LE for about a year and a half. I mostly use the 5x10 concentric and Boost process. With the ground in local parks dried out, depth is not a consideration, so using DE would be worth a try. Thanks for all the effort you put into the comparison project.
 
Ron, this is the kind of info I luv---thanks for the effort and sharing. Best of luck to the wife on her recovery.Tell her to be careful and DON"t overdo her rehab.
 
Thinks for the well wishes, she is doing pretty good so far.

When it gets hot and dry like it is now I just hunt surface fresh drops. It does a lot of damage to dig so I just select FA low sensitivity and take off.

Ron in WV
 
I would like to see a test with the Tornado and hunter coil on the F75. The hunter is working very good on my E-trac. The Tornado works great on both my F75 and E-trac.
 
Wish I could help but I don't have either the Tornado or the Hunter coils.

I have had a few of the bigger coils in the past and for a coin hunter they didn't seem to help much. I seemed to me that the bigger coils liked bigger targets and wouldn't give me much help with the smaller coins.

I also think the amount of trash in the areas I hunt keeps me from having any luck with the bigger coils.

Ron in WV
 
I think U would be shocked by the Tornado and Hunter coil. The Hunter coin rang out perfect silver tone when I ran it over a SLQ on my last hunt. If U have never tried a Hunter or Tornado coil I think U are missing out. I dug a 1822 Half at 12 inches with the Tornado. The stock coil did not even hear it. My buddy was using the stock coil and he is a silver sniffing fool.
 
You got my attention, maybe you could get me some air test numbers. All you need is a man's gold ring, clad quarter and dime, silver dollar, silver half $, silver quarter and a silver dime.

Set the F75 in disc at 15, sensitivity as high as you can, then test all targets in DE and the same in BP and post or PM me the numbers.

Ron in WV
 
REVIER said:
Interesting...thanks for the effort in crunching these numbers but I know it is a labor of love for you.

I have found air testing is good for bench marking but the true test is in the real world and there are so many situations and conditions possible you just gotta get out there, try different coils and settings and see how it all shakes out.
Tweaking, experimenting, changing coils in real world sites is my labor of love and I have been surprised out there.

Using boost on my F70 I think I might get a bit deeper with a little more punch though ability in my heavily mineralized iron infested soil I hunt in now but with slightly different settings and the right coil it might be a wash without boost.

The deepest target I ever dug in good soil was a measured 15" with the big DD coil and no boost but almost maxed out sense and thresh.
The small sniper coil is amazing when it comes to depth so I wish I had a chance to try it out on that target but I never did.
In my bad soil that sniper does seem to have some excellent piercing power in both boost and no boost but with different settings using each.

The world is a wonderful but strange place sometimes, switching coils and settings just to see what they can do in the same sites is one of the things that I enjoy in this hobby.
Now, thanks to you, I have more data and setting and coil combination possibilities to throw into the mix so thanx!

Are you calling the "SL" mode on the F70 Boost? My F70 doesn't have a "Boost Mode".

Also on air testing,
There isn't anything about DIRT that would increase depth over air testing other than "Halo" of ferrous metals (like Iron), possibly Indian head pennies. So, I figure it this way, If I get a dig-able response air testing @ 10" on a coin then I'm not going to get anymore depth in the dirt on that type of coin.
So, the max depth for that detector, coil, and coin is 10" and less in the dirt.

Doing air test for each of my coils I would consider the same thing, that being, when soil is included ALL the max depths are going to decrease! seeing how the soil would have a degrading effect on all of them.
But, NO! 10", 11", or 15" of air test depth doesn't carry over to REAL depth in the soil.

Air test ARE NOT to determine real world in the dirt depth.
What air testing does is it helps a person to stay in proper perspective about search depth of a detector and its coil, I mean if someone tells me that their F75 will hit a US silver dime @ 16" and you can't air test past 12" then the story gets to be 'Non creditable' (Flaky).
So Ron, expects all of his air test numbers to be less in the soil (All Of Them, For All The Coils) So if the soil cancels out lets say 20% of the max air test depth, then it does so pretty much across the board (each coil losses more sight when more fog is in front of it)

But, if I thought I was having trouble with my F70 and we had to do a long distance comparison for a depth test we couldn't use each other's soil because it may be to different from each others, the most universal detecting media we have would be AIR! and or stacks of Popular Mechanics magazines (which is about the same as air).

And they are other aspects that air test don't show, like which coil does ground minerals effect the most, Double DD or Concentric?

So, air test are to be taken with a grain of salt, and if a person only has one detector and one coil then Ron's spreadsheet wouldn't have much information on it with nothing to compare LoL!

Planted coins is WORSE than anything, Ron and I both have coins buried @ 7" that are JUST GONE! for all of our detectors, I have a couple of Nickels @ 7" that I buried three years ago and they are the same as not there! I've had perfect success with test gardens down to 4" beyond that they get weird, the detector may hit on them for a couple of days, then POOF! gone!

Mark
 
Hello MarkCZ,

In regard to "calling 'SL' mode on the F70 Boost". Below is a quote from writings by Dave Johnson, Chief Designer of First Texas. This article deals with "Processes".

He writes: "SLOW PROCESS (on the F70) This process is fairly similar to "boost" process but with a number of minor detail differences. It will tend to be a little quieter in heavy trash than the boost process."

Hope it helps answer your question.
 
Yes, SL is boost...basically a slower sampling process that goes a bit deeper.
It always cracks me up when some pull old "the F70 does not have boost so the F75 is so much better because of that", thing.
It does have boost and always did, the F70 had it first and then only after that came out they tweaked it and then added a similar process to the F75.
 
I will give it a try to do some air tests.
 
One of the best things I have found is the hunter and tornado provide great separation. Us can use them in yards and still pick out among trash.
 
"REVIER" I thought you may have been calling the SL (mode) option "Boost" but I wanted to be sure. In the design of the F75 they choose the term "Process" playing up on its computerization, in the F70 manual things are termed options, or modes which to me plays down the computerization aspect.
Mark
 
Revier,

It worked, just a simple name change and everybody thought it was something special. I know I fell for it, I didn't really buy into it until just lately when I started comparing my air test numbers with other machines I have had.
What got me was the numbers for my old F5 were actually close to my F75's BP numbers with the 11"DD coil. As soon as I do a cutting and pasting I will post the side by side F75 to F5 numbers.

Ron in WV
 
Here is those numbers I said I would post.

Ron in WV
 
WV62 said:
Revier,

It worked, just a simple name change and everybody thought it was something special. I know I fell for it, I didn't really buy into it until just lately when I started comparing my air test numbers with other machines I have had.
What got me was the numbers for my old F5 were actually close to my F75's BP numbers with the 11"DD coil. As soon as I do a cutting and pasting I will post the side by side F75 to F5 numbers.

Ron in WV

Yea Ron, SL, Boost, mode, process...potatoes, potatas.

It is kind of special, I use it a lot now here in the SE and seem to get some more solid tones and numbers using it on the really deep stuff using my two smaller coils, sometimes I get no signals at all unless I use it with those smaller coils at my current limit of 7-8" which is pitiful compared to the much better soil in Kansas but for here is a hard fought victory.
There is a whole layer of targets past the 5" that I believe most around here have missed forever because signals change into almost unintelligible and skewed weird ones as you get deeper but not so unintelligible to me anymore.
Using the larger DD coil not quite a problem missing those deeper targets in DE vs. boost from what I remember while learning and tweaking but I have to experiment a little more next time I mount that coil.
My favorite park I hunt most of the time has tons of trash and huge amounts of iron so the sniper is my usual go-to coil more often than not.

Ron a question about your settings during this air test bench mark process...
I assume all were done indoors, and was this in all metal or disc or both and what we're the thresh and sense settings?

I mentioned earlier out in the field different conditions might come into play a lot when I choose settings to hunt with, not only soil conditions but EMI and how much noise I am willing to put up with at any given time which does change for me on my hunts.
I have no DST shielding so my noise levels can run the gamut from extremely noisy to very quiet, sometimes even very quiet on very high settings so I adjust accordingly.
I can deal with a huge amount of noise but I lately I prefer a quieter environment if I can find good and still deep or good unmasking settings for that.

There might be comparable settings using boost and lower gain and thresh to DE speed and higher settings in the field from what I saw early on when I was doing a lot of experimenting...in good soil anyway.
I wish I still lived out west hunting in that good low iron non mineralized soil because everything there seemed much more normal and obvious compared to where I hunt now where everything is so weird and skewed past 3".

I mentioned that deep target I dug at 15", still the deepest thing I have ever gone after and recovered to this point and I was not using boost.
At this same location I started hunting in the edge of this old park near the street that always had more EMI problems that I have ever come across before or since.
This was before I really started using all metal, monotone, more negative thresh or anything else I have now learned to mitigate the EMI problems and other noise I know now.
Still, in this noisy problem area in previous hunts I managed to find some great targets like a gold ring nestled between two pieces of iron and my deepest coins, a coin spill actually composed of oneold wheat and three Indians laying at between the 7-8" level...maybeup to 9" on a few.
This spill was found with the big DD, sense at 80, thresh around -1 and 4H tones.
Even with all the jumping this was solid and repeating enough for me to investigate.

On another hunt I started on the edge of the park in all that noise but got tired of that so I moved to another more quieter area for a break.
Big coil again, settings were sense and thresh maxed out and 1F tones, DE speed so no boost and decently quiet at that, this thing was a very solid audio hit with numbers jumping from the mid 20's up to 40 but mostly in the mid 20's to low 30's.
As you know on these Fishers at the very end if the scanning field you might get audio but the screen might just go blank but not on this thing, I got screen info on every pass from more than one direction.
I tried all metal too and got the same audio and visual behavior.
When I hit the pinpoint button and saw 13-14" numbers pop up I was shocked, so I went after it out of curiosity if nothing else despite those lower numbers.
It was a thumb ringer off an old bicycle bell at 15"...I measured that one to be sure, pic below.
A bit bigger than a coin but I was still just thrilled to have dug that deep and found a target at the time...still am.
Surprisingly the VDI was pretty accurate because this was a 27 out of the ground.

Could I have hit this thing in boost and lower settings I don't know, never thought to try it at the time.
Could I have gotten this hit using the sniper...I doubt it but stranger things can happen I suppose.

Right now in my devil dirt I use boost most of the time in both all metal and disc and seem to be getting deeper than others I know or have managed to hit in the past with other detectors and I am finding great things so I guess I am on some sort of good track but I will continue to try DE and other settings too to see what happens.
 
REVIER said:
WV62 said:
Revier,

It worked, just a simple name change and everybody thought it was something special. I know I fell for it, I didn't really buy into it until just lately when I started comparing my air test numbers with other machines I have had.
What got me was the numbers for my old F5 were actually close to my F75's BP numbers with the 11"DD coil. As soon as I do a cutting and pasting I will post the side by side F75 to F5 numbers.

Ron in WV

Yea Ron, SL, Boost, mode, process...potatoes, potatas.


Ron a question about your settings during this air test bench mark process...
I assume all were done indoors, and was this in all metal or disc or both and what we're the thresh and sense settings?

Revier, all these numbers here were from running in disc, and they were all done inside with the same setup. With the F75 in any of the disc processors I have no control over the threshold settings. If I switch over to the AM side I can set the threshold but I never hunt that way. I did do some testing way back and I was getting some coin numbers numbers at 15".

The way I setup for air testing I can only use the sound, I can not see the meter.

Air testing only gives me an idea what is going on with each setting and what each coil does under these best conditions. When I hit the dirt I know all those numbers change.

Ron in WV
 
No control over the threshold in disc processes?
Try DE, you should be able to control all of that in that mode, BP too I assume.
I don't have any processes, per se, everything has to be set manually which only takes a few seconds because I filed many different combinations away in my head.
I do have complete control over both sense and thresh using both all metal and disc so it seems strange to me the top model won't let you change and tweak most settings even in one of those preset process modes...but I may be incorrect, wouldn't be the first time.
I just assumed all those processes were preset combinations like JE and such which you can duplicate manually...except maybe FA which seems to use some extra and extremely fast processing power but again I might be incorrect.
Not that the thresh settings might matter all that much in air testing but in the field I am seeing slight differences on different levels but not so much involving depth as far as I can tell...so far.
 
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