F75 LTD Checking a target

[WV62]

I was wondering if any body could explain the checking a target from the manual. A copy pasted below for reference. I am from the old detector school so it just seems natural for me to loiter over the target like the book says not to. I have tried the full shoulder width sweep and I can see it would work if that was the only target that the coil passed over. But there are very few times that I wouldn't hit several targets in a single sweep. So lets say I hit a target then try to check it the full sweep method and hit those other items either before or after the good item. How can I expect to get an accurate reading? Now this is where it seems natural to loiter over the target area to get away for the other bad targets.

I am not saying the book procedure is wrong, I am just say I don't have a good handle on it yet.

Ron in WV

CHECKING A TARGET From manual
In order to most accurately verify a detected target with most other metal detectors, users will
narrow their sweep and loiter over the top of the target. The F75 is different. The F75's quick
response and advanced signal sampling system produces the most accurate target IDs with
deliberate (shoulder width) sweeps all the way across the target, even if there are other
targets nearby. If you check targets using sweep techniques learned on some other detectors,
you run the risk of getting less accurate target IDs. You can use the confidence level indicator
to improve your technique.

 

[MarkCZ]

I was wondering if any body could explain the checking a target from the manual. A copy pasted below for reference. I am from the old detector school so it just seems natural for me to loiter over the target like the book says not to. I have tried the full shoulder width sweep and I can see it would work if that was the only target that the coil passed over. But there are very few times that I wouldn't hit several targets in a single sweep. So lets say I hit a target then try to check it the full sweep method and hit those other items either before or after the good item. How can I expect to get an accurate reading? Now this is where it seems natural to loiter over the target area to get away for the other bad targets.

I am not saying the book procedure is wrong, I am just say I don't have a good handle on it yet.

Ron in WV

CHECKING A TARGET From manual
In order to most accurately verify a detected target with most other metal detectors, users will
narrow their sweep and loiter over the top of the target. The F75 is different. The F75's quick
response and advanced signal sampling system produces the most accurate target IDs with
deliberate (shoulder width) sweeps all the way across the target, even if there are other
targets nearby. If you check targets using sweep techniques learned on some other detectors,
you run the risk of getting less accurate target IDs. You can use the confidence level indicator
to improve your technique.

Not having a F75,
And not knowing how to run the thing,
Never have read the manual for it,
Would make one wonder why is this moron even posting in this topic or even reading it? (D*mm, good question

But what the heck, here goes!
It sounds like the designers wants the operator to keep the sweep speed in both directions until you have completely passed the target. The "loiter" style may cut the swing to short or be to choppy for the best target ID response from the detector.
Now the only way I could see to accomplish this would be when you locate a target, to do an "Uncle Jack" style swing, (Big brother knows what that means). But I don't mean to hunt like that, but to do it for the purpose of ID'in.

Okay, for the others that don't know what an "Uncle Jack Swing" is.
We had an uncle (Jack) and he metal detected, in that time he was using those older fast motion Whites detectors. Well the faster you would sweep over a target the better they discriminated.(he thought you had to search that way) Now the idea wasn't to really search like that (mowing grass), but to use a pretty fast sweep until you found a target, then cross sweep it really FAST! if the target was good the response improved, if it was bad the target would break up or disc completely out. Well, uncle Jack would turn on his detector and start swinging like a nut, but not only did he swing it fast, he would swing it sort-a like a golfer! the coil would only sweep close to the ground in a very narrow search path of maybe a foot, the rest of the swing was just in the air at probably shoulder or even head high. (he really did look like a nut)

Now lets forget about the speed of the "Golf Style" uncle Jack swing and just think about the "Golf Style" for ID'in a target. The manual for the F75 sounds like the search speed is fast enough, its just that they want you to move completely past the target to help the electronics better ID, but it doesn't say you have to keep three foot of soil on each side of the target.

Now the question!
Could the "Golf Style" swing work for target ID'in with the F75?

Mark

 

[shooter]

I totally understand your delimma on that subject I'm beating that one up too, the loitering in disc mode does seem to cut the id # down but you get a better CONF. reading and when I speed the swing up and real closely overlap the target I get a better better ID # but next to another target they will both ID better, the one that will puzzle you is target with HIGH ID one way and nothing the other way, Fisher says its a bad target, my beep and dig machine would say good next to bad (the response time is slow on the analog mach.) digging those now with the F75 and coming up with some good targets, and some are silver. going to try the old reverse disc. method next time i'm out.

 

[TerraDigger]

Dave J. , who developed the F75 platform, covered this in a post somewhere here on FMall. My memory tells me that in the post the First Texas Fishers/Teks are designed to optimum performance when shoulder width sweep is used. Now this flies in the face of detectorists of many brands who swear by the Minelab 'Wiggle' technique. Which is nothing more than short sweeps over a target for better resolution. Since Dave J developed these machines to operate in a particular way, I think he knows what he is talking about. I would follow the manual's advice.

 

[Steve O]

The "Minelab wiggle" with the f-75 works, especially in trash areas. Scenario; You are swinging the detector close and parallel to the ground. You hear several targets in a sweep. You hear the tone you're listening for, narrow your sweep over where you believe the target is, with even smaller sweeps down to a few inch wiggle, hit the pinpoint toggle till you get the loudest, cross the the target, dig.
Once you get the hang of the 75, because it's so fast and lite, you can find and dig targets faster than most machines out there. You may also dig more junk also, as compared to a Explorer/E-trac.

 

[Big Boys Hobbies]

I don't use the minelab wiggle but make a complete fast pass over the target then come back with a same speed short swing. That works for me. If you have several close targets sometimes you are forced to do the minelab wiggle.

 

[Elton]

Once you swing shoulder to shoulder and the target is sampled ( Processed) you can isolate with a slower sweep.

Here is what you missed in your thoughts.. ........... As you swing shoulder to shoulder, watch the Confidence meter area. As you get the Sound.. High Silver sound if you are in three mode,or above on tones it will peg the confidence meter at the same time.
The 75 alerts you a good target is located between the less desirable targets IE: NICKLE, TAB, ETC......

Once you know a good target is in fact there... Slow down and isolate it........ No one, not even Dave ever said the F75 unmasks targets buried over with iron.. It hits targets between the bad targets by using exceptionally fast recovery...It doesn't take as long to process and you get less null time between the targets with the F75..... Masked targets are still masked, and unless you hit a small portion of the good target, you will not hear it, or Id it ..

High sounds one way, may or may not be a good target. You still get some wrap around iron reading as good target... yet there may be a good target laying really close to iron, or an alloy that hits just enough to give momentary good sound.

 

[Coinseeker 78]

I do shorten my sweep on a high target sound to help locate it better. I don't watch the VDI reading on narrow sweeps but if it is a high tone using the 4 tone setting and 4 inches or deeper I dig it. I get a little more trash but still find more silver or coins using this method.

 

[jim tn]

I do a fair amount of woods hunting and it is rare when I can get a shoulder to shoulder swing. Often, my swing is just poking the coil under a low hanging bush or short sweeps of a foot and less. On trashy sites, I also shorten my my sweep and basically just inch my way along listening for high tones and high tone tics among the trash. When isolating a target in trash, my sweep is as little as 3 or 4 inches. But, the coil is moving briskly those 3 to 4." HH jim tn

 

[tvr]

Dense target environment doesn't work well with the shoulder length swing for me. Short quick swings directly over the target do seem to work well. In boost mode, can kind of loiter over the target and do well. Cache mode needs slower loitering. If not in those two modes, short fast sweeps. Like others indicate, can use the confidence meter to help; but two dissimilar targets next to each other throws off the confidence meter and ID numbers will bounce or be skewed. And don't forget that, as well as the big coil separates targets, one of the small coils does wonders in target dense environment.
Cheers,
tvr

 

[WV62]

I am reading all this, good stuff.
Summery
Hay maker golf swing, I will make sure no body is looking when I try this one
Reverse Disc. ?? Would like to know a little more about this
Minelab wiggle, I think I got a pretty good idea about this one
Full first pass with short same speed back swing
Shoulder to shoulder and follow up with slow sweep and watch confidence meter
Smaller coil will help separate targets

Thanks all, but more comments welcome
Ron in WV

 

[Woodstock]

I was wondering if any body could explain the checking a target from the manual. A copy pasted below for reference. I am from the old detector school so it just seems natural for me to loiter over the target like the book says not to. I have tried the full shoulder width sweep and I can see it would work if that was the only target that the coil passed over. But there are very few times that I wouldn't hit several targets in a single sweep. So lets say I hit a target then try to check it the full sweep method and hit those other items either before or after the good item. How can I expect to get an accurate reading? Now this is where it seems natural to loiter over the target area to get away for the other bad targets.

I am not saying the book procedure is wrong, I am just say I don't have a good handle on it yet.

Ron in WV

CHECKING A TARGET From manual
In order to most accurately verify a detected target with most other metal detectors, users will
narrow their sweep and loiter over the top of the target. The F75 is different. The F75's quick
response and advanced signal sampling system produces the most accurate target IDs with
deliberate (shoulder width) sweeps all the way across the target, even if there are other
targets nearby. If you check targets using sweep techniques learned on some other detectors,
you run the risk of getting less accurate target IDs. You can use the confidence level indicator
to improve your technique.

Not having a F75,
And not knowing how to run the thing,
Never have read the manual for it,
Would make one wonder why is this moron even posting in this topic or even reading it? (D*mm, good question

But what the heck, here goes!
It sounds like the designers wants the operator to keep the sweep speed in both directions until you have completely passed the target. The "loiter" style may cut the swing to short or be to choppy for the best target ID response from the detector.
Now the only way I could see to accomplish this would be when you locate a target, to do an "Uncle Jack" style swing, (Big brother knows what that means). But I don't mean to hunt like that, but to do it for the purpose of ID'in.

Okay, for the others that don't know what an "Uncle Jack Swing" is.
We had an uncle (Jack) and he metal detected, in that time he was using those older fast motion Whites detectors. Well the faster you would sweep over a target the better they discriminated.(he thought you had to search that way) Now the idea wasn't to really search like that (mowing grass), but to use a pretty fast sweep until you found a target, then cross sweep it really FAST! if the target was good the response improved, if it was bad the target would break up or disc completely out. Well, uncle Jack would turn on his detector and start swinging like a nut, but not only did he swing it fast, he would swing it sort-a like a golfer! the coil would only sweep close to the ground in a very narrow search path of maybe a foot, the rest of the swing was just in the air at probably shoulder or even head high. (he really did look like a nut)

Now lets forget about the speed of the "Golf Style" uncle Jack swing and just think about the "Golf Style" for ID'in a target. The manual for the F75 sounds like the search speed is fast enough, its just that they want you to move completely past the target to help the electronics better ID, but it doesn't say you have to keep three foot of soil on each side of the target.

Now the question!
Could the "Golf Style" swing work for target ID'in with the F75?

Mark

I know what you mean by fast sweep back then cause we motion discriminated. But I mastered the fast sweep - flat scrub and it worked so well I miss that set up today. I guess if you my nephew I guess I could be you could call your "Uncle Joe" sweep ! LoL Happy Hunting, Woodstock