F75Ltd upgrade, what can I expect?

[Coin Rescue Inc]

I can see a future tests coming at zero discrimination with 1n tones.
The audio portion of the iron signal is muted. Zero discrimination means more depth? Yet the manual clearly state higher discrimination provides more depth. Your tests prove that.
Also what you are saying made me review sensitivity in the manual. A new manual came with my upgrade. There are two stages of sensitivity.1 thru 29 is a low stage and 30 to 99 is a high stage. The manual does not say what the differences between the stages. So what are the differences in the low and high stage? Which is good for what? There is much confusion in the community thinking that they must hunt at the most powerful level, 99. What if 29 is the most powerful level in low gain stage? The manual does state that if you have a lot of EMI then you should use the machine in the lower gain stage 29 and below.
I know.... lots of questions.

I see your tests are done at a sensitivity of 60 in the high stage. I wonder what the results would be if you tried it at 29 sensitivity in the low stage. There is an article by Thomas Dankowski say there is something important about discrimination of 6 in the older units using one tone for trashy sites. Something Revier is discussing too on his F70. At some point I am going to experiment with that but every day it gets colder. The December forecast is for milder winter, so far.

Just food for thought.

 

[WV62]

I know a lot of folks tend to think along the lines, more power, deeper is better. But I hunt a local park that has a blanket of tabs at about 4", but between surface and 4" there is a lot good stuff lost. So if I run hot I am hitting one tab after the other. So I back down, like some lower sensitivity, run in DE with a slower swing that will knock of a couple of inches, then I hold the coil off the ground about 3". The idea is to not let the detector see that blanket of tabs and get good readings on the items from 4" up. I have done this a lot and it works. I also know that there is some silver below all those tabs which is safe from detectors for now.

I done a little testing on sensitivity as well and I didn't see a big step, like from 29 to 30 or 6. I included another chart, note the top line was big steps in sensitivity and the bottom line was small steps looking for the jump from 9" to 10".

Ron in WV

 

[NE Digger]

that's the beauty of a digital system VS an analog system. In an analog system, depth and performance loss will occur as you add discrimination, every time. Its just the nature of the beast. With digital systems one can program to compensate. I think that's what the manual is talking about when it says sensitivity "may" increases as disc increases. They tweak the software to add gain to compensate for depth loss due the higher disc. Don't confuse that with thinking that adding disc actually adds depth. It just a little trick of the software.
As far as the 6 and below disc you mentioned, that's pretty much very old news. We discovered very early on that a disc setting below 6 invoked a boost in sensitivity, but there is a lot more to it. As you gradually decrease disc below 6, you will note specific changes as you lose disc. Again, little tweaks in the software. Very little on the F75 is linear, like an analog system would be.
For instance...............
I have a site that's heavily littered with nails. its an old church grove in the woods. This site has produced hundreds of indian cents. It has been a VERY good site to test certain settings due to the sheer number of targets in similar conditions.
You can be hunting for instance in 2F, DE process with a disc setting of 6, and get little more than a grunt on a masked/ partially masked indian cent. Switch to 0 disc on that very same target, and that target not only sounds good, but will also ID spot on! Amazing to say the least. I have confirmed this on many many targets at this site. Despite being already far below the rejection point of these targets @ a setting of 6, they still remain hidden till 0 disc is invoked. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, and it wont necessarily work every time but it convinced ME of the value of as low a disc setting that you can stand at a particular site.
FYI. I am not a coin-shooter. I am primarily a relic hunter, and am a beep-dig hunter. IF I even remotely think a target is good, it comes out of the ground so I don't have a whole lot of use for high disc in the first place. Be careful of those odd sounding "iron" grunts in 2F as well. you will notice that some, while sounding like iron on the surface will have a vauge "sweet" sound in the middle of the grunt. A whole lot of these are very deep GOOD targets right on the edge of detection. It hard to describe what it sounds like, but passing them up is a mistake. There is a lot to learn about this machine, and those of us that have had them from the beginning are STILL learning about them. I haven't had to time to really give the new SE a good shakedown yet, due to work and crappy weather, but I have no doubt they will be teaching us a lot of things as well.

 

[WV62]

Well I am one of the original F75Ltd owners and I can say there always seems to be something try or test on these machines. I have hunted at disc 6 some but can't remember ever hunting at 0.
I have a place that sounds like a perfect place to give that a try.

My machine was delivered to FT Friday, so I should hear a little something this coming week.

Ron in WV

 

[Coin Rescue Inc]

Not much new to report. Did go to a park yesterday for an hour looking for loot in the DE - 1n mode and 11" coil.
Was fine. Found a few nickels.
Then switched to the 5" coil and when to the tree I hit the 1897 quarter.
Hunted mostly in de, 3H description 0. Then a bit in 1n.
Still like the 5" coil. Got two newer quarters and two nickels. One deep copper cent 8" down. Signal was iffy weak but there like a dime. A bit of bouncing around. Like something close by interfering. Due to the previous 1800 coin I think I am going to dig anything. lol

 

[Coin Rescue Inc]

Well here is an update if anyone is interested.
I got out Thursday early from work and headed to the "Barber" park again.
Pretty darn cold and it got dark in about an hour. Used 11" coil.
Located and dug 3 clad dimes one pretty deep- 8" and 2 clad quarters.
Some foil but not excessive junk. No complaints -

Saturday I went out 8 AM to another park by a river I where I found a nice Buffalo Nickel in September before the upgrade just to see if the upgrade finds anything more. Overcast and 35 degrees

In a two hour hunt found a bunch of clad and three Chucky Cheese tokens that I would say were recent drops.

Amount that I did pick up a deep faint signal that turned out to be 1937 Lincoln Cent in an area I hunted last time.
Was using 1N tone and DE process zero Discrim- Before the upgrade I never would have thought of using zero Discrim. No EMI issues. 99 is ok for EMI but is it too sensitive and increases tones for tiny junk I do not want to dig.
In 1 or two tone you need to keep you eye pealed on the digital numbers.
I headed out into the woody area because mother nature was calling. In the woods I got a good 75 signal and found a copper memorial.
Then on the path I had a higher signal using 3H that turned out to be a rusty rectangular tube belt buckle. Something I remember for my boyhood that the military or boy scouts used.

A webbed belt went through the opening and was pinched by a sliding bar. Still pretty crusty but I guess you could call it a relic.

My Indoor Testing is on hold at this time since the weather has warmed up a bit I can still hunt. There will be allot of time for that later.

 

[WV62]

Coin Rescue,
Good report, that 37 wheat penny is a good indicator that there could be silver in the area. I was going to say that 37 penny could have been a silver dime, but I know somebody would come back and me and say if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his butt.

Your clad is running pretty deep, I wonder if something was going on in the area that would cause it to covered with some extra dirt or some kind of sinking going one.

I think you are right on both counts on the belt buckle, but for sure the military used them in the 60's and 70's, I had several. I may still have one in my foot locker.

Nothing wrong with running zero disc or 1 or 2 tones. But for me on the non upgraded F75 I would run low disc with 3 or 4 tones and if I wanted the nickels to jump out at me I would do 3H or 4H. When running high disc I would do the one tone or 1F. I know the upgrade will require me to re-think some of what I have been doing.
I know I never hear anybody talking about running high disc but if you shouldn't run high disc wonder why they give us the option.

For sure hunt if you get a good day, winter may knock us out any time now.

One of my brothers has been wanting to get another silver hunt in before the end of the year, we are looking at late this coming week. My detector upgrade is complete and has been shipped, but it looks like delivery will be Wednesday.

Ron in WV

 

[Coin Rescue Inc]

Good luck with your next hunt and upgrade. There is allot of discussion lately on air tests and possible defects.
I looked at your chart data yesterday again and glad you have a baseline for pre upgraded units in Discrimination mode. I was also curious if ground balance settings affected the test results and if you know what you were set at?
10-11" on bp seems to be the norm. I think I get that depth on an air test easily but will buy fresh lithium Batteries today to test. The new manual says lithium are ok to use. I use lithium on outdoor game cameras and they work better in winter than standard alkaline batts.

I wonder if you had charts for the all metal mode?
Some guys are focused in on depth, depth and more depth. But anything 16" deep would be masked by some other metal object above it? Like 16" would work good in clean beach sand?

 

[Coin Rescue Inc]

I have a site that's heavily littered with nails. its an old church grove in the woods. This site has produced hundreds of indian cents. It has been a VERY good site to test certain settings due to the sheer number of targets in similar conditions.
You can be hunting for instance in 2F, DE process with a disc setting of 6, and get little more than a grunt on a masked/ partially masked indian cent. Switch to 0 disc on that very same target, and that target not only sounds good, but will also ID spot on! Amazing to say the least. I have confirmed this on many many targets at this site. Despite being already far below the rejection point of these targets @ a setting of 6, they still remain hidden till 0 disc is invoked. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, and it wont necessarily work every time but it convinced ME of the value of as low a disc setting that you can stand at a particular site.
FYI. I am not a coin-shooter. I am primarily a relic hunter, and am a beep-dig hunter. IF I even remotely think a target is good, it comes out of the ground so I don't have a whole lot of use for high disc in the first place. Be careful of those odd sounding "iron" grunts in 2F as well. you will notice that some, while sounding like iron on the surface will have a vauge "sweet" sound in the middle of the grunt. A whole lot of these are very deep GOOD targets right on the edge of detection. It hard to describe what it sounds like, but passing them up is a mistake. There is a lot to learn about this machine, and those of us that have had them from the beginning are STILL learning about them. I haven't had to time to really give the new SE a good shakedown yet, due to work and crappy weather, but I have no doubt they will be teaching us a lot of things as well.

That is interesting and worth remembering. Yesterday I fell into the trap of increasing Discrim to 6 to get rid of some Iron tone. Guess 1N tones would be better and leave Discrim at zero. That kind of detecting seems like it is slow going and inspection of each tone or am I missing something?

Yesterdays coin rescue-Lincoln is smiling