FIRST HUNT WITH THE PATRIOT

[joe dirt_1]

Took the Patriot out today for a few hours. Running 85 sens, iron disc, 3H tones, and threshold at 4....detector ground balanced at 55.
No matter what I tried, I couldn't get the detector to calm down and run quiet. I dropped the sens. back to 75, tried different threshold settings, nothing seemed to help.
The area I was hunting was a big city park that I've hunted several other times with no problems at all with EMI. I'm beginning to think I might have a bad coil.
My buddy was running his Minelab Xterra with no problems at the same location.

I really like the Patriot, very lightweight and easy to swing. Dug an old makeup compact at 8 inches and it would have hit it several inches deeper with no problem...nice solid signal.
One thing I don't care for on the Patriot is the pushbuttons. With gloves on it's hard to change settings. The Patriot seem like a lot of detector for the money otherwise.
Should I call Teknetics tomorrow or maybe try another site first and see if the detector calms down ? I really don't think it was operator error causing the problem and I don't have any other coils to try.
Any other ideas that I might try?.........Thanks

Roger

 

[poorman]

Try changing the Operating Freq. { Hirtz} Start with about 20 sens and work up.

 

[joe dirt_1]

I tried changing the freq.....made no difference. I did not go lower than 77 on the sens....might try a lower setting, but I have never had any EMI problem with other detectors.
My T2 Classic runs quiet at the same site and at higher sens. settings than I was using on the Patriot. I will try your suggestion of starting out low on the sens. and working up......Thanks !

Roger

 

[cal]

Try resetting and adjust off default settings starting with less or lower settings. Reset after notching every time you use it. This is just a guess. I'm receiving one tomorrow and may be in the same shape. I always have heard from f70 users, that reset can be your best friend. Time will tell. Good luck !

 

[joe dirt_1]

Thanks cal, never thought of doing a reset on the detector.......Hope that solves my problem.
I think you are going to like the Patriot......good luck !

Roger

 

[REVIER]

Yes, do a reset at that site and see what happens...Sometimes it helps a lot.
Lower the sense, you will not believe how deep this thing will go at 60, 50 or even into the 40's.
Many hunt at 45 always and get surprisingly deep.
Turn the thresh down if you want because that also affects chatter, I have used all the numbers from blasted all the way up to -9...still find a ton.
There is a relationship between the thresh and the sense, a million combinations possible from noisy to quiet even in the most EMI plagued sites if you can figure them out.
At the lowest thresh numbers you might have problems picking up the tiniest things like earring studs but you would not believe the small things I have found at even -6.
I believe all coins can be picked up easily even down to -9.
The best tone settings to mitigate EMI chatter are the three lowest ones, 1, 1F and 2F.
I used to use multi tones all the time but now that is rare, if you catch me out hunting you would see me using either all metal or monotone 1 most if the time....and I use some pretty high settings a lot.
Check the coil somehow if you can, a bad one is a rare thing but possible and could cause these issues but I would adjust those settings first.


This has been an issue for many using these hyper sensitive units after going to them from others.
Hard to wrap your head around the fact that you can still get major depth on quiet settings and low gain...but you can.
I had to experience this for myself before I could actually believe it but eventually I came around.

Watch this vid, notice his settings, thresh blasted up but sensitivity on 1 and still hitting 8" coins.
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=KaJG8ohPbjE

 

[joe dirt_1]

REVIER, I was hoping you would post a reply. I will do everything you suggested and will play with the settings.
Thanks for sharing your expertise.....it's much appreciated !

Roger

 

[REVIER]

Your welcome.
It just takes time to get used to it, the more you understand the easier it becomes.

About that low threshold...
It is true that people say it is like a door, at 0 halfway open and you can see, (actually hear), much on the other side of that door.
Go higher on the numbers and the door opens wider and you can hear more that is in the ground.
The threshold tone kind of moves to a lower position so in effect it lets in more objects in the ground and smaller items that might have been deeper also that lower thresh numbers cut out.
Lower the thresh into the negative numbers and the door closes, you will get less response from deeper and/or smaller targets.
Despite this and maybe a bit of depth loss I think even at -9 these will hit coins surprisingly deep, and to get to ultra quiet I don't think you even have to come lose to that number.
We keep saying it...the thresh and gain have a close relationship on this one, adjust one and it affects the other.
Get comfortable trying different combinations of sense and thresh till you hit on what you like, quiet wise.
I have hunted at sites with incredible amounts of chatter, a constant thrumming and shear wall of noise at one every time I went there, and still successfully hunted it many time using both noisier settings after I got used to them and totally silent settings with sense way down low and lower thresh settings too.
I also have tried lower sense but really high thresh, even though it might be a bit noisy sometimes it seems to have some great unmasking ability in my iron infested mineralized soil.
It all works, I just practiced and adapted to many ways but I still have my favorites and if I have a choice between noisy and quiet I usually do choose quiet and if that is what you want you can get there.

Here is a lot of great info from Dave Johnson.
It is pertaining to detectors and gold hunting but there is a lot of other useful information in here about how our detectors work.
Go to page 33 and read about the gain and threshold features...I found it very informative and interesting.
http://www.fisherlab.com/hobby/davejohnson/DavesGoldbook-reders.pdf

 

[jim tn]

Also, in conjunction with the things you are going to try, double check that your coil wire connection is good. Plug pushed in all the way and firmly tightened down. HH jim tn

 

[joe dirt_1]

Ok guys, I did a reset on the detector and it's running nice and quiet now. Can't believe how much difference it made.....reset really is your friend.
Revier, your explanation of the threshold being like a door made me understand the usage of the threshold much better....it all makes sense now.
The Patriot is just a little different animal than I have been used to using, but with more experience, I think it will be a coin killer.
Thanks for the help with my Patriot, it's greatly appreciated !.............HH

Roger

 

[REVIER]

Ok guys, I did a reset on the detector and it's running nice and quiet now. Can't believe how much difference it made.....reset really is your friend.
Revier, your explanation of the threshold being like a door made me understand the usage of the threshold much better....it all makes sense now.
The Patriot is just a little different animal than I have been used to using, but with more experience, I think it will be a coin killer.
Thanks for the help with my Patriot, it's greatly appreciated !.............HH

Roger

Yea...we know some stuff.
Coins, jewelry, relics or whatever...if it is metal this thing will probably be able to find it for you.
In normal sites and conditions most every setting combination should work, in some of the more challenging and weird ones a little tweaking can go a long way to making things easier.
Trust me, I hunt in weird and difficult and have some sometimes weird theories about settings and use them but the treasure keeps coming and my jaw has not stopped dropping in over 3 years.

 

[joe dirt_1]

REVIER, I'm looking at coils for the Patriot, probably an elliptical DD coil or a SEF coil. I'd like a bigger than stock coil for coverage, but the sites I like to hunt are farm fields
that have had houses on them from the mid 1800's to the early 1900's. You find tokens, coins, buttons, and even items from the Civil war, along with lots of Iron and brass mixed in.
Is there one particular coil to look at or do I need to buy both larger and smaller coils for the Patriot ? Thanks for your help.


Roger

 

[REVIER]

On my F70 the standard 11" DD has gotten me real deep in great soil, easily up to 12" WITH screen info showing up and even up to 15" on one target.
At the very end of the scanning field on all coils these units will still give you audio but the screen might go blank in case you didn't know this.
My 5" DD Fisher sniper coil could almost match it and I saw depth numbers up to 12" and even further although my soil was frozen so I didn't dig them at the time.
98% of my targets usually don't run much deeper than 8-9"...10" on a few.
Even the 10" elliptical concentric got me up to 10-11" on a few.
That was in good soil...in bad soil death can be cut back a lot.
Here in Bama in the bad stuff 8" is about as far as I have gotten in good targets so far but even 6-7" gets me a ton that are really masked and hiding.

I did so well with the factory coils I never thought to by aftermarket but recently I got a Nel Sharpshooter in a trade and you know what...I am loving this little thing.
Depth, separation and everything else is great but one of the best things is it seems to be several degrees quieter in most of my sites.
They say in the info these are supposed to have better shielding and so far that seems to be true.
I am not into the bigger coils so much here with my trashy and iron infested sites but i do know a couple of guys that have the Thunder and Tornado coils on F70's and F75's that hunt in decent soil and they report deeeepness.
I have a friend here that hunts with a Tornado on his AT Pro and it beats the Garrett coil depth, or so he says.
Also even with my small coil in volleyball court sand where I still GB'd at 59-60 I hit a 10" nickel pretty good in DE.

I guess it all depends on the soil you have and how deep you want or need to get to.
Really deep targets in my experience are rare in my sites, I don't come across them often plus you haven't had a chance to see what that big DD that came on yours can do yet either.
It can shock you and they supply that coil on this one and the F75's for a reason.

If you are really asking for a recommendation I guess the short time I have spent with the Sharpshooter so far has surprised me so I suppose the Nels...after you give yours a chance that is.

My review of a small Nel...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,2364649

 

[joe dirt_1]

REVIER, I live and hunt in West Central Illinois and am fortunate to have good low mineral black dirt to hunt in. My detectors normally ground balance in the mid to upper 50's
and on all the CZ's I have owned pretty much ground balanced on 5, the preset mark.
The coil that came on the Patriot is the 9 3/4 inch elliptical concentric coil, not a DD coil. I wish it had came with a DD coil.....they seem to do a better job separating in the trash than a concentric.
I have experienced deep targets that gave a signal and no VDI on the screen, especially on my T2 Classic. It goes much deeper than it can ID a target.

On most sites targets are in the 5 to 8 inch range with a few a tad deeper. In the farm fields targets can be literally on the surface from being washed out in the rain down to the bottom of the old plow zone.
I will use the stock coil to get used to the Patriot first but am leaning towards the 8x6 and 12x10 SEF coils. I have both for my MXT PRO and they are excellent coils. I will look closer at the Sharpshooter coil also.
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions..........HH

Roger

 

[REVIER]

Ok this is strange....from every website I see and every video I have watched they all show the Patriot coming out of the factory with the 11" DD coil...the elliptical concentric isn't even offered in any new package I have seen.
Not saying you are wrong, you seem to know what you are doing and have tons of experience but this is very confusing to me.
Both pictured below, the DD has fins, the concentric has holes.

If indeed you do have the concentric never get rid of it because on this thing the tones are extra sweet and responsive, it finds everything and is unusually great at jewelry...it is different than using a DD on this thing but you have to put in some hours with both to be able to tell that difference.
The elliptical concentric was the standard coil on the F70 and many were told, (and heeded that advice), to dump this thing and get the big F75 DD immediately.
Since I hunt for everything this is a big mistake in my book and I don't use mine all the time but I do use it and love when I do.
Listening to those tones on my first few signals always makes me smile and this coil found me enough coins and silver and gold jewelry to pay for my rig within the first few months.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,2296414,2296729

On the other hand it is not the deepest coil although in good soil I was reaching 10" easy.
Mostly dug beaver tail pulltabs at 10" with this coil though, they come in high when they are that deep and what the heck are pulltabs doing that deep anyway I always wondered.
Still thrilled to get signal that deep with the elliptical and see a target in the hole at that depth when I dug it.

The Fisher 11" DD is deeper by at least a few inches if not more, as will most brands of DD coils of similar or bigger sizes be, I assume.

If you like the SEF coils great, the Fisher coil will work well too because I have seen this myself in great soil and as I said from what I noticed the Nels seem to really like this platform for some reason and seem extra quiet and stable.
The dealer I got it from says he noticed the same thing.

 

[joe dirt_1]

The coil that came with my Patriot looks like the coil on the left. It has fins. I thought it looked like a DD coil myself, but on page 4 of the owners manual under specifications
it states the coil is a 9 3/4 " open framed waterproof concentric elliptical search coil. I remember forum member Woody questioning the coil size / type recently on his Patriot.
Maybe Teknetics intended to use the concentric coil originally, had the owners manuals printed, and then decided to use the DD on the Patriot. Whatever the reason, the manual is wrong.

So for now I'll use the stock coil and learn the nuances of the Patriot then add a smaller coil down the road after exploring my options..........HH

Roger

 

[REVIER]

Good to know I am not as crazy as I think I am.

 

[REVIER]

Something way cool about this coil, BTW, you can fool it into thinking it's a sniper.
Open up the settings to just about anything and find most targets at most depths, lower the sense to below 40, I usually go down to about 30, and it has the effect of tightening the scanning field down to something like a laser-like scalpel.
I have done this in many areas with extreme trash I wandered into, like around picnic pavilions, and so many targets popped up I had missed in the past I was shocked.
Not only coins but jewelry, too.

Also in areas with tons of those hated pop tops that act like high tone coins the wiggle pull back method I use to pinpoint most of my targets works well to ID these things.
As I pull back and pass the front of the coil over these before the signal drops out there is usually a drop down low most if the time.
Most times to iron, sometimes a bit higher but there will be a big drop that does not happen on coins and other good targets.

Totally flattened old rusty shallow steel caps it doesn't work so good but there aren't all that many of those out there, 98% of the time it works great.

 

[woody]

My Patriot came with 11" dd.

 

[joe dirt_1]

REVIER, That's some great information, will definitely give it a try. Is there a particular threshold level you run when hunting with these settings ?..............thanks

Roger