? for Revier ....

[REVIER]

Here is a whole lot of info about how I hunt in iron infested sites, mostly using all metal and what I call blast through settings which is all metal with sense and everything else you can turn up all the way.
You can control the thresh levels in one of your all metal settings I believe.
It takes practice to get good at it but it works.

Disc can work well too, I use high sense and mono, 1 tone, and disc at 1 mostly for a few reasons, other settings can work also.


http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,2322233,page=1

Hunting in good soil but heavily iron infested sites or in our wonderful soil It's all the same, really, and he Fishers are programmed to do something differently around iron that we can use to our advantage...
They up average around iron...big time.
The deeper the higher the numbers go and that is on most targets, even iron pieces themselves.
The Fishers show nickels in the low 30's, zinc cents and tokens in the low to mid 60's, Indian heads around the mid 50's to low 60's too, dimes and copper cents in the low to mid 70's, quarters in the mid 80's, halves into the high 80's, silver dollars about the low 90's.
That would be in normal soil at most depths in clean soil.
But not in iron infested sites and not in our dirt.
Here I found everything soars way higher if it is about 5" and definitely deeper from 6-8", sometimes even less than 5" in the red stuff.
Prepared to look for numbers that will jump but should stay at a range of about 6-8 numbers and will usually be in the high 80's to low 90's range.
Deep nickels will be there, copper cents and Indians will be there, dimes and quarters with be there, halves will be a bit higher into the mid 90's I assume and a silver piece dollar I dug in the Red stuff that was only 4" came in at a steady solid 98-99 on every pass.
Zincs I have never dug really deep but I assume if Indians fly high those will too.
I have also dug, beaver tail and stay tabs that range from 35 to the low 40's at the same high numbers if they are real deep, twice what they usually are anyway at the least.
The key is to figure out a way to tell the better stuff from the junk or iron which also can act in a similar way.
There are ways, indicators, behaviors coil movements and methods to cut down on digging holes with junk and concentrating on holes with better targets...most of the time.


Read this stuff first, my theories about what I noticed and how to deal with iron and earn what I learned about up-averaging, then we will talk.

 

[REVIER]

thanks guys. like I said I only played around for about an hour with it so not a lot of time on it. my ground was balancing out at 68 to 70, not sure how bad that is. my at pro usually balances out at 86 to 88 so I think that's pretty bad ground. you wouldn't think northwest pa would have bad ground. the fe bar graph was reading .03 to .1 so I'm not sure if that's good or bad. what type of readings are some of you other guys getting?

You are not great...but it could be worse.

I range all over the board even in the same hunting sites.
Moisture levels in the soil seem to affect things too, in really dry ground I can get GB numbers up to 10 higher then I do after a soaking rain.
You would think the opposite would happen...but no.

From the F70 manual...
Some typical ground mineralization types are:
0 – 10Wet salt and alkali.
5 – 25Metallic iron. Very few soils in this range. You are probably over metal.
26–39Very few soils in this range -- occasionally some saltwater beaches.
40–75Red, yellow, and brown iron-bearing clay minerals.
75–95Magnetite and other black iron minerals


In great, dark, loamy beautiful almost perfect Kansas and Missouri soils I usually would range from a 42 on up.
Mid 40's mostly up to mid 50's most of the time, I don't recall it ever getting into the 60's except for a couple of rare instances then that changed when I moved a bit out of the area.
These are the ground phase numbers, the dirt bars, (bar graph), that measure the actual amount of minerals in the soil can be interesting.
The F70 has 3 bars, the F75 I believe has 4...didn't realize you had numbers tied into that feature, I don't.
In Kansas most of the time I would see no bars at all, once in awhile 1 and that was rare and I don't remember ever seeing even 2 bars in hundreds of hours hunting.
Here 2 bars sometimes, most of the time pegged out at 3.
Not only do we have that hemitite filled mineralized soil as I keep mentioning there is a lot of it.
Interestingly even over the better black soil, and there are patches of that here and there, I get just about the same high readings on both the numbers and the bars....here in the city proper, anyway.
As this city was built up in the late 1800's going forward the existing natural iron content was high but because of the iron industry and their processing, plus I believe lots of their iron byproducts like slag and other forms of smaller iron got dumped into sites everywhere and got moved around all over the city.
Private lawns and curb strips shouldn't be so loaded with so much of this stuff, logically, but evidently contaminated fill dirt was used everywhere so it is a real mess around here.
Not quite as bad in the black soil in woods areas that were left alone for the most part but still not great.

These are interesting numbers to crunch...you might have some really high ground phase numbers constantly even into the 80's but you also might have very few or no dirt bars.
That could be pretty good soil to hunt in and depth might not be a huge problem.
Combine higher numbers AND lots of bars and then...well, welcome to our world.

I have been messing around with a borrowed Red Racer here, ground phase numbers are into the 70's to 80's...high I guess and for the amounts of mineral content instead of bars they use a round pie icon instead.
The more that empty circle is filled with black the higher amount of minerals in the dirt.
99% of the time that circle is 75% filled and it frequently goes up to about 98%.
I messed around with autotrack here a little, the machine will sense and change as it rolls over different kinds of soil but it doesn't seem to work so great around here.
Crazy jumping numbers and that circle filling up and down with almost every move of the coil.
I think it was trying to have a nervous breakdown so I just manual GB it and go with that for every area but I check it often as I move around.

 

[jyblood]

Revier, I've read and studied your posts from last October. I know you have shortened my learning curve and gave me information that I probably would never even come close to figuring out. Especially your methods to punch thru this bad soil that we share. When this F75 gets here I have a lot of testing to see if I can put your information into practice. Thank you very much....

 

[REVIER]

Happy to help, maybe we can get together for a hunt sometime, again only about 30 miles separate us.
Showing is much more efficient than telling most of the time but read that stuff and you will be up and running pretty quickly...even in this garbage dirt.
As always a little practice makes perfect...it took time for me to figure this stuff out and even more to get good at using and understanding it all but well worth the time spent.
Like I keep saying things and behavior just ain't normal around here so keep an open mind.
Luckily Fishers ain't normal either and this up averaging ability is the perfect thing to deal with deeper targets around here.
I think all those deep targets still hiding around here, some shallow and masked but especially the deeper strange acting ones, are still there because people assumed behavior will be the same and normal on all targets everywhere both shallow and deep.
It just isn't...think outside the box and you will be successful.
You are getting the exact right tool for the job as far as I am concerned.

 

[MI-AuAg]

Revier, how do concentric coils work in that ground, if you use them? How do they compare to DD's?

In regards to the FA process attaining less depth. In my actual hunt conditions, I can't say I that I encountered any definitive/pronounced drop off in depth, nor could I say that there is none. Such conclusions can be pretty subjective, and difficult to determine with certainty. One thing I did note, is that it helped in separation using the standard 11" coil. THAT, to me was important. As i said earlier, and you alluded to, the F75 has a fast reset speed on it's own. When I used the 6.5 x 3.5 snake coil, and the DE process, I felt the separation was good with that combo. When using that small coil and the FA process I didn't feel any pronounced benefit, after all, the purpose of the smaller coil is to get better separation. I did using the 11", and the FA process in a trashy environment. The way I look at it, using the FA Process with the larger coil, is like getting SOME of the benefits of a sniper coil, at the press of a button. The FA Process appears to be simply an audio enhancement providing a quicker response, with a shorter duration. I don't know that it does anything with actual signal processing? Since the audio, and TID are autonomous of one another, I'm still trying to figure out the total positives/negatives of the FA. One thing I'm sure of, it's another tool in the box, and I did see benefits.

With many of the search processes, coil swing speed can be a major factor in their effectiveness. The Boost, and Cache processes on the F75 Ltd, and I assume the SL process, on the F70, require a slower swing speed to be effective at gaining depth. I'm not sure at this point, what, if any consequence the swing speed in the FA process has on depth. Such things can be difficult to quantify, and there was no specific information supplied (to my knowledge) on that. That's always been one of the things I enjoy about using a new detector. The "on the job training" and "cause and effect" of using their individual features is all part of the enjoyment to me.

 

[REVIER]

I think the faster FA process is actually faster, audio wise, but to be used for better resolution to separate targets in heavy crowded sites than to be used for faster swinging purposes...which could work well also in covering large areas quickly when in that situation.

In reality DP tones is supposedly the only one that is directly tied to the VDI numbers on the screen so regarding that relationship this is the fastest.
All the others are fast in the audio reaction but with some sort of lag time involved in the screen behavior.
All pretty imperceptible to me, everything seems fast but I can see a difference between DE, (Default), and SL, (Slow, Boost), speeds in reaction time.


For Joe, the Fisher top ends you might have read somewhere that a faster swing speed works better for identifying deep targets.
This is actually true, a 8-10" target in good some soil still might be a bit jumpy, not super solid as you might like to see for whatever reason.
In many cases, and in DE speed which has a faster sampling rate than boost, a swashbuckling like swift pass over such targets can give you a pretty accurate and stable tone and number.
Like I said in good soil, here forget that...I have found in all cases, soil types and situations a slow coil speed is paramount.
I am talking painfully slow sometimes, way slower than i am used to or comfortable with but I force myself to do it anyway.
I found most of my best, masked, deepest targets using really slow swing speeds here and also in better dirt out west but with extreme iron or trash infestation.
Here these things have to process the mineralized soil, any other iron junk around or trash plus the good target conductivity readings all at once...gotta give it a chance to take it all in to give you the best readings possible and maybe to trigger those mostly just high number blocks I look for and they can be short and quick.
Many times I got a decent signal going really slow but with just a little bit faster swing speed it was gone...I would have missed it.
The FA process might actually make all this easier and still get decently deep for all I know but I don't have it, never used it so I don't have a clue.

Also I might have not made this clear in previous information.
I have read many Fisher owners that rely mostly on the audio in so many situations, most situations lots of time...like the screen is an afterthought and not to be used or at least believed.
Using my blast through methods, even my low disc monotone method, it is the screen info that weighs more on my digging decisions than the audio.
I listen to the tones, sure, but those are just a small part of this method, the numbers and behavior I see on the screen is more important.
Way different thinking than many I know, but I have never been the kind to do a ton of following when I can experiment and blaze my own trail when possible.