For those of you that DO NOT use TTF......

[Goes4ever]

Ok for those of you who have tried TTF and simply don't like it or just refuse to use it, what do you do when you get on a site that is absolutely totally littered with iron and I mean you get 8 to10 iron hits per swing........

I found a site that I was at Saturday, where they tore down a school, I started in conductive mode and my etrac mulled completely no matter how slow I went. I always start in conductive when I am at a site, and when the iron is this horribly bad, I switch to TTF. I am just curious what you non TTF users do on sites like this, besides for switching to a tiny coil, what do you do?

As for me, I am more than happy going to TTF and digging all the high tones. On old school sites I normally dig everything anyhow.

 

[utahshovelhead]

Hey Goes,
I will only use TTF as a last resort even in a sight like the one you mention above.
The E does better working through the iron than any other machine and if you want to hunt a tough site littered like that than the E is the best machine for it try the following:
If the E trac is nulling all over I will try to lower the sens, lower the gain, and other things that we stick all the way up there to max the machine out.
turn Fast on. some times I have it off even in the iron just so the signal that do come are less iffy. but mostly use fast on and try it on different signals then check.
Then Slow the HECK down and I mean to a slow slow.
If you find targets than swing at all different angles. adjust up on settings as you find you are able in the site. I try to still get the sens up to the highest workable.And in some cases cant hunt because of too much null.

You will still get nulling but the good targets still get in there and you need to check a few to see how the machine is reacting in that soil and iron mix. If you still are not able to hunt because of the null then Dig out the iron or move over. Sounds funny but I have lifted lots of iron out of some spots. I know you will use TTF if the conduct dosent work for you and I personally have not had good results with the TTF in my spot that is like that. I think you should stick to the type of hunting that works best for you and not switch because you and only you will recognize the way the machine reacts best in a spot like that. You have to become the interceptor of the machines reactions. I'm not saying that the machines are different I'm saying that the user gets used to the way the sounds and numbers react and then make s the decision to dig. If you change back and forth it messes the user up because of the inconsistency.

My opinion, so don't anyone off load on me: TTF is not the best use of the E trac unless your ground is easy to dig in and you have lots of patience and want to dig lots of different items. I can see it working well over the pond or relic hunting or beach hunting but still want to use the discrimination so it messes up the reason I paid all the cash for the machine...to save time and not dig all the goofy stuff. Now if I want I can always open the discrimination more and find and dig more and this I do on the best sites. I want all the sound and tone information I can get otherwise I would use a (other) detector with two sounds good bad.

 

[coolhandluke]

Minelab also recommends that you set Trash to High when you set Fast to ON.

These settings affect the way E-Trac reports on the target.

"High
In High setting, E-Trac searches for the best ACCEPTED target signal during detection and then displays the most stable Target ID. The High setting allows you to detect accepted targets in the presence of ferrous objects, high ground mineralisation or amongst a number of rejected targets.
For example, when a coin is buried amongst nails and you are using a Disc. Pattern that accepts coins and rejects nails, the detector will lock onto the coin and the Target ID for the coin will be displayed at the end of detection. If the nail produces a stronger signal response the detector will not blank at the end of detection, and the Target ID for the coin will be displayed at the end of detection."

 

[detectorfreak74]

I will put the etrac in farrous wide open but have it in multi tone ( low bump on iron and every thing else has a tone )

 

[coolhandluke]

I'm trying to get a little more creative.

If I understand this correctly, I should be able to do the following and get better results:

You could still use TTF but set Trash to HIGH and create a discrimination pattern that accepts everything above FE 17 and rejects everything below it.

This would mean that a dime at 12-44 amongst nails at 35-48 would still sound a high tone since the dime is an accepted target and the nail is a rejected target.

If, however, trash is set to LOW the E-Trac will tone on the coin ONLY if it has the stronger signal or it will null if you are rejecting the item that has the higher signal.


Trash setting from the manual:
"Low
In Low setting, E-Trac locks onto the strongest signal target during detection and the detector displays the most stable Target ID.
For example, when a coin is buried amongst nails and you are using a Disc. Pattern that accepts coins and rejects nails, the detector will lock onto the target with the strongest signal. If the coin produces a stronger signal response, then the Target ID for the coin will be displayed at the end of detection
If the nail produces a stronger signal response, then the Detector will blank at the end of detection and the Target ID will not update as the nail is rejected by your Disc. Pattern.


Question: How does the E-Trac respond to targets when in All Metal mode using no discrimination pattern? Does is tone on all targets individually? Blend them if they are close together? Or only tone on the strongest target signal? If you have a pull tab a 2 inches, a dime at 4" inches and a nail at 6" all right on top of each other how does E-Trac sound off? If the nail gives the strongest signal does this mean you just missed out on the dime?

Inquiring minds want to know. )

 

[detectorfreak74]

If you sweep slow it will signal on all targets in all metal

 

[Digger]

coolhandluke, It's cold and dark outside, so I had to test your scenerio via a bench test. All metal with no discrimination. And I used multiple conductive tones since TTF would have made the pulltab and dime sound the same. No matter what the order I stacked the dime, pulltab and rusted 10 penny nail, (with 2 inch separations), the target closest to the coil was the ONLY target whose properties were reported. One exception.......when the nail was "on top" of the stack and passed perfectly parallel to the center bar of the coil, the "second" target in the "stack" gave an abbreviated audio report. Enough to warrant further investigation if I were hunting in the field. Apparently by laying the nail perfectly parallel to the center bar of the DD coil, the surface area of the nail did not produce a substantial amount of eddy currents in this position. At least not to the degree that the second target in the stack produced.

In the "real world", consideration must be given to the size of the nail and how long it has been rusting, what direction the nail is laying in the ground, the size and type of pull tab, moisture content of the ground etc. And If your test were to be done with the targets laying adjacent to each other (at the same depth), you should be able to separate each target when they have a separation of 2 inches. Field results will also depend on the settings you described, your sweep speed and, to a certain degree, coil size. But as I said, when these three particular target were stacked up at 2-inch intervals, those were my results.

As a side note.......there is an excellent article explaining eddy currents and how "conductive properties" are based on the properties time constant, as well as it's conductivity. You can read it at MInelab's website, Knowledge Base, Technical Notes, Metal Detector Basics and Theory by Bruce Candy. The first 5 or 6 pages explain the rational behind the above situation pretty well.
http://www.minelab.com/__files/f/11043/METAL%20DETECTOR%20BASICS%20AND%20THEORY.pdf

JMHO HH Randy

 

[nge]

WOW This is getting too deep for me. I always follow my fav saying " when in doubt, dig it out" kinda takes all the guess work out........NGE

 

[coolhandluke]

That is very interesting Digger. Maybe tonight after work I will try a similar test using a discrimination pattern rejecting the trash and accepting the dime.

But to make the dime jump out, or at least get a little chirp, I will turn Fast = On Deep = Off and Trash = High.

Theoretically, this should make the coin jump out from the trash. Since the tab and nail are being rejected, Fast is giving a more isolated response between targets, and Trash High is supposed to ignore the rejected target and report on the accepted target. So even though the E-Trac can see all 3 targets, maybe it will only report the good and ignore the bad.

Maybe I should start with just the dime and the nail to see how it works. If the results are good, then bring in another piece of rejected trash to see if it still works.

 

[doberman]

That is very interesting Digger. Maybe tonight after work I will try a similar test using a discrimination pattern rejecting the trash and accepting the dime..

Did try this set up and what were your results??

Thanks

Dan

 

[doc1964]

I follow the same approach as you Terry - only switch to TTF when I get that constant null. A lot of the old schools in the Detroit metro area are surrounded by ground that is full of iron fill - not a lot of conductive trash - so picking through it in TTF has been very productive for me. Great conversation - like to see folks trying different things.

See you at the park tomorrow NGE!

Doc

 

[Smack]

I hunt in TTF no discrimination. I listen for the higher tone and then look at the numbers. I use the processor between my ears to decide to dig or not. Sometimes it is the numbers, and sometimes the sweet sound. Most of the time happy with the finds and like NGE said, sometimes if I cant decide, then I dig. It takes longer wondering about it. And when I dig I get to learn what it was that was spooking the processor. Occasionally I am totally surprised at the good target I find.

 

[greedykind]

I have a question for coolhand or goes.When you said that
"For example, when a coin is buried amongst nails and you are using a Disc. Pattern that accepts coins and rejects nails, the detector will lock onto the coin and the Target ID for the coin will be displayed at the end of detection. If the nail produces a stronger signal response the detector will not blank at the end of detection, and the Target ID for the coin will be displayed at the end of detection."
I have noticed that when i hunt in ttf that sometimes throughout the day i get a 12 to 16-45 on the screen but no high signal sound.Could this be because the iron is a stronger reading than the silver?I mean i dont even get a chirp of high sound it may even null but it tends to be at the end of my swing?Thanks charlie.And oh yeah i luv the etrac and ttf

 

[Goes4ever]

if you get this at the END of a swing it is just an iron false, slow your swing down to prevent this. Swinging fast while using TTF causes a lot of falsing

 

[treasure sstate]

Today I turned deep ON and reduced my gain down to 24. I did not get much iron false running that way. Did not seem to affect depth in any way, retrieved 3 wheat pennies and a silver nickel.

 

[stasys]

My suggestion is use sounds LONG,GAIN max and low manual sensitivities, everything ells is not big different. if you like Conductive OK, if you like to dig all targets and use TTF like I do OK too, all the Deep,Fast off. Just remember- without discrimination ETrac works smoother.pluss, slow and coil low.

 

[silversweeper]

I'm another hunter who uses TTF with no discrimination a lot. That's mainly because the majority of sites I hunt are very, very iron-trashy. Lots of bits and pieces of iron in the ground, nails and other assorted building refuse plus ground mineralization. The last week or so I've been hunting a couple of houses circa 1900 and have been trying to switch between different settings to see what picks out the targets the best. First, if you're not hunting in manual sensitivity in iron infested sites....you're definitely missing out on signals. I've located fairly deep wheatie signals in manual TTF, then switched over to auto just to see if they still register....no more signal. I've also switched over to Conductive sounds with a generous discrimination pattern set up for coins, with a lot of room below and above to take ground mineralization into consideration. Sometimes the signal is still there and as strong, and sometimes it disappears or becomes very broken. I've read and re-read comments on this forum from hunters who use both, and have seen the results of their hunts many times. From what I gather, it is largely user preference and what a person gets used to as they are learning their machine and....who knows...perhaps each machine has it's own quirks as well. Having said that, I do have a few sites that I visit on occasion that conductive sounds and some discrimination work pretty well in but, the places I've hit lately, digging all the iron or slowing down to the point where the null becomes signals is just not an option. Switching from TTF to conductive with some discrimination and then lowering the sensivity to the point where the nulling isn't constant defeats my purpose because I'm losing all my depth and the majority of my signals. There are iron trashy sites and then there are IRON TRASHY sites...lol. I've also hit the yards using the stock coil and then a 6x8 SEF and located targets that truly did not register with the procoil, and I do believe in the "go low and slow" mentality so I'm pretty sure it's not my swing speed or technique that missed the signals the first time around. In my opnion it's just nice to have a machine with the different possibilities that the etrac offers, otherwise it would make hunting such a variety of sites that are made available to us unproductive without just switching machines all together.

 

[niterider_58]

Your a fast learner, well said