From CTX back to Etrac

[tiftaaft]

This may have been discussed in other forum posts (feel free to point me in the right direction), but I was curious how many of the current Etrac users on this forum either HAVE, or HAD a CTX, and have gone back to using the Etrac as #1. I currently have both, and have been hunting religiously with the CTX for the past 4 months... but I can't stop feeling that I'm leaving something "magical" in the backup position of my arsenal.

Has anyone gone back to the Etrac from the CTX? and what drove your decision?

 

[Bryan V]

I'm glad you brought this up and I will be watching this thread.
Unlike a lot of CTX users, I did not own an Etrac before the CTX.. I have been running a CTX for a year and a half,
and out of pure lack of coil frustration I just bought a used Etrac to try out.
I went out for the first time yesterday for a few hours and I'm not sure what to think yet.
I miss the Combined mode from the CTX already and the Etrac screen is beyond terrible. It does have very nice tones though,
and I like how you can switch between Auto and manual sensitivity with one click.
I am an Audio hunter so after I get used to the Etrac I can probably live with the screen.
I could use some input on where to run my ferrous line though. I'm used to running an almost open screen with the combined mode.

Bryan

 

[amberjack]

had a etrac bought ctx 5 years ago like to the day today and sold the etrac as the ctx was just better and still is at what its good at, but bought another etrac because of some new coil options in the last 12 months its been used more than the ctx lately.

they both have their spots where they shine and that's about how the cookie crumbles no perfect detector just working out what to use where

AJ

 

[sprchng]

I have gone from the etrac to the CTX and I'm staying there as long as the CTX doesn't break.
I was an etrac coil whore and still have the evidence in case anyone is interested. Have a NEL Hunter and Sharpshooter in storage,,,cheap.
I found with a small , 5 x 10 , stock and 10 x 14 all things were covered and have acquired by hook and crook the same for the CTX without the large one which is where I use the etrac and the 10 x 14 when called for.
I have difficulty regressing to the lack of processor speed and absence of 35 combined tone options with etrac.
Both screens suck which is especially bad on the CTX since it has so many more visual features but so is life.
If only they could have completely duplicated the etrac tones on the CTX

 

[tiftaaft]

I'm glad you brought this up and I will be watching this thread.
Unlike a lot of CTX users, I did not own an Etrac before the CTX.. I have been running a CTX for a year and a half,
and out of pure lack of coil frustration I just bought a used Etrac to try out.
I went out for the first time yesterday for a few hours and I'm not sure what to think yet.
I miss the Combined mode from the CTX already and the Etrac screen is beyond terrible. It does have very nice tones though,
and I like how you can switch between Auto and manual sensitivity with one click.
I am an Audio hunter so after I get used to the Etrac I can probably live with the screen.
I could use some input on where to run my ferrous line though. I'm used to running an almost open screen with the combined mode.

Bryan

I agree with all your comments Bryan... the one click sensitivity mode is the thing I miss most with the CTX, and the tones are great on the Etrac... no question. Just prior to buying the CTX, I was running my Etrac in TTF with a mostly open screen.. but when I was in multi tone, I usually ran the andy s. program, so the ferrous line (disc) was down around 28.

I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Etrac once you have a chance to give it a good workout.

HH

Tim.

 

[tiftaaft]

had a etrac bought ctx 5 years ago like to the day today and sold the etrac as the ctx was just better and still is at what its good at, but bought another etrac because of some new coil options in the last 12 months its been used more than the ctx lately.

they both have their spots where they shine and that's about how the cookie crumbles no perfect detector just working out what to use where

AJ

A few questions AJ... what new coils brought you back to the Etrac... and in your opinion.. what type of spots do you find the Etrac shining?
Tim.

 

[TerryR]

I have both and use the CTX most of the time. I still use the ETrac with a 5" Sunray coil in real heavy trash just because I think it works better. I also have a lot of coils for the ETrac and they are just easier to change. I bought the E in 2007 and just bonded with it. I've had the CTX a couple years and like it but for some reason it's not the same. If one had to go it would be a real hard decision to make

 

[daddyflea]

I'm glad you brought this up and I will be watching this thread.
Unlike a lot of CTX users, I did not own an Etrac before the CTX.. I have been running a CTX for a year and a half,
and out of pure lack of coil frustration I just bought a used Etrac to try out.
I went out for the first time yesterday for a few hours and I'm not sure what to think yet.
I miss the Combined mode from the CTX already and the Etrac screen is beyond terrible. It does have very nice tones though,
and I like how you can switch between Auto and manual sensitivity with one click.
I am an Audio hunter so after I get used to the Etrac I can probably live with the screen.
I could use some input on where to run my ferrous line though. I'm used to running an almost open screen with the combined mode.

Bryan

Run Ferrous open from 0 to 23. From 24 on down close it up. Coins can come in up to 25 but it is very rare in my dirt and you will dig a ton of iron. If there is a doubt check it with Quick Mask running open. Also run from 32 to 49 open on Conductive. Nickles 12 to 14 conductive. Also never depend on a 4 way hit. If it sounds good two ways dig it. I never even check 4 ways after doing a nail test.

 

[Bryan V]

I'm glad you brought this up and I will be watching this thread.
Unlike a lot of CTX users, I did not own an Etrac before the CTX.. I have been running a CTX for a year and a half,
and out of pure lack of coil frustration I just bought a used Etrac to try out.
I went out for the first time yesterday for a few hours and I'm not sure what to think yet.
I miss the Combined mode from the CTX already and the Etrac screen is beyond terrible. It does have very nice tones though,
and I like how you can switch between Auto and manual sensitivity with one click.
I am an Audio hunter so after I get used to the Etrac I can probably live with the screen.
I could use some input on where to run my ferrous line though. I'm used to running an almost open screen with the combined mode.

Bryan

Run Ferrous open from 0 to 23. From 24 on down close it up. Coins can come in up to 25 but it is very rare in my dirt and you will dig a ton of iron. If there is a doubt check it with Quick Mask running open. Also run from 32 to 49 open on Conductive. Nickles 12 to 14 conductive. Also never depend on a 4 way hit. If it sounds good two ways dig it. I never even check 4 ways after doing a nail test.

Thanks. I was running my ferrous line at 28 that first time out, and yes it was all over the nails, not unlike my CTX.
There is a lot going on in the audio though and I think over time I will be able to weed out the falsing easier with the Etrac.
Need more time on it to be sure though.

Bryan

 

[daddyflea]

I'm glad you brought this up and I will be watching this thread.
Unlike a lot of CTX users, I did not own an Etrac before the CTX.. I have been running a CTX for a year and a half,
and out of pure lack of coil frustration I just bought a used Etrac to try out.
I went out for the first time yesterday for a few hours and I'm not sure what to think yet.
I miss the Combined mode from the CTX already and the Etrac screen is beyond terrible. It does have very nice tones though,
and I like how you can switch between Auto and manual sensitivity with one click.
I am an Audio hunter so after I get used to the Etrac I can probably live with the screen.
I could use some input on where to run my ferrous line though. I'm used to running an almost open screen with the combined mode.

Bryan

Run Ferrous open from 0 to 23. From 24 on down close it up. Coins can come in up to 25 but it is very rare in my dirt and you will dig a ton of iron. If there is a doubt check it with Quick Mask running open. Also run from 32 to 49 open on Conductive. Nickles 12 to 14 conductive. Also never depend on a 4 way hit. If it sounds good two ways dig it. I never even check 4 ways after doing a nail test.

Thanks. I was running my ferrous line at 28 that first time out, and yes it was all over the nails, not unlike my CTX.
There is a lot going on in the audio though and I think over time I will be able to weed out the falsing easier with the Etrac.
Need more time on it to be sure though.

Bryan

Back off your Gain to relieve some of the Falsing and make sure Deep is off. I am in the Hospital so I can not tell you what my setting are right now but I believe my Gain is set at 26. I have almost zero falsing

 

[EtracTom-AdirondacksNY]

Daddyflea is right on the money with his post. I do the same myself on my machine for dis. settings.

 

[Bryan V]

My gain was at 25 but I tend to push the sensitivity which brings the nails alive.
It's the only way to get depth in my soil with the CTX. Auto +3 won't cut it.
Not sure if the Etrac is the same but in my soil Auto +3 will only get up to around 17 or so.
I like to run around 23 or so on my CTX to get past 8".
Bryan

 

[daddyflea]

My gain was at 25 but I tend to push the sensitivity which brings the nails alive.
It's the only way to get depth in my soil with the CTX. Auto +3 won't cut it.
Not sure if the Etrac is the same but in my soil Auto +3 will only get up to around 17 or so.
I like to run around 23 or so on my CTX to get past 8".
Bryan

Here is what is happening. You are over driving your unit. If your recommended sensitivity only gets to about 17 and you run at 23 or better, your machine is confused when you hit a target. This is like running bright head lights on a foggy day. The best way to avoid this is to pay attention to your Threshold. If you are moving the Coil with a good Threshold you can go up until that Threshold starts to go away. If it goes away you are too high. Back off the Sensitivity. You actually get more depth and more importantly you get more ID depth. Using this method and running only an 8" coil I typically get coins at 8" and sometimes beyond. When I say 8" I mean 8" in the ground after swinging over them with the Coil. This will also let you swing at a normal speed. I run on Manual almost all the time which adds 2" to your Depth over Auto and sometimes, most often in Sand, I can get pretty high but regardless of the reading, you got to get a clear reading to your machine without over loading it.

 

[Bryan V]

Ya I'm aware that I am running it hot and the extra noise that comes with it. The Etrac might not have to be run like this.
I have only run it one time for a short hunt, so I have a lot to learn.
My CTX does need pushed though to get that extra 1 or 2 inches.
My ground is not the greatest. It runs from high single digits to high teens on the recommended sensitivity.
The Etrac was holding its threshold better than I thought it would..
Thanks for the tips.

Bryan

 

[daddyflea]

Here is the problem running hot means you miss many targets. Etrac selects the highest conductive target when it is set on High Trash. (Big Can) Then it sticks on that target and will not give another Screen Reading or tone until it goes back to Threshold and resets. This means than you might get a correct tone or might not but your VDI reading will only be correct for that one item and that last pass over the target. In order to get good depth you must insure that your ID is correct especially if like me. I run pretty high Discrimination and I am here to tell you I miss very little.

As far as Noise I find my Etrac is too quiet when run hot because it never gets back to Threshold to reset for the next target. Of course if you run high Discrimination you must be aware of Trash Nulling out. I like to hear these Nulls myself to know that everything is working right.

Ya I'm aware that I am running it hot and the extra noise that comes with it. The Etrac might not have to be run like this.
I have only run it one time for a short hunt, so I have a lot to learn.
My CTX does need pushed though to get that extra 1 or 2 inches.
My ground is not the greatest. It runs from high single digits to high teens on the recommended sensitivity.
The Etrac was holding its threshold better than I thought it would..
Thanks for the tips.

Bryan

 

[Bryan V]

Thanks daddyflea. I may have to learn to run with more discrimination on the Etrac.
I'm used to running an almost open screen with the CTX with the help of the combined mode which the Etrac does not have.
I too like to hear everything under my coil. It will just have to be a null instead of a tone with the Etrac when it comes to iron.
May have to just slow down more or put on a smaller coil if the nulling gets heavy.

Bryan

 

[tiftaaft]

Here is the problem running hot means you miss many targets. Etrac selects the highest conductive target when it is set on High Trash. (Big Can) Then it sticks on that target and will not give another Screen Reading or tone until it goes back to Threshold and resets. This means than you might get a correct tone or might not but your VDI reading will only be correct for that one item and that last pass over the target. In order to get good depth you must insure that your ID is correct especially if like me. I run pretty high Discrimination and I am here to tell you I miss very little.

As far as Noise I find my Etrac is too quiet when run hot because it never gets back to Threshold to reset for the next target. Of course if you run high Discrimination you must be aware of Trash Nulling out. I like to hear these Nulls myself to know that everything is working right.

This may be a stupid question, but audibly... what is the difference between a quiet threshold and a trash null. I had always considered the threshold drop to be a discriminated item nulling the machine, but I am wondering about my perception after reading the comments above... ??

Regarding the headlights in the fog comment... the challenge in my area (and Bryan's) is that we seem to face difficult ground (high mineralization I am guessing), so placing the machine on auto +3 in some cases is like pointing your headlights straight down at the ground... you can see immediately in front of you, but total blackness beyond a few inches. I totally get the "brights in a fog" analogy which results in a wall of total whiteness... the trick is finding that middle ground, and I think Daddyflea's comments about managing the threshold by adjusting the manual sens makes sense, I just need to see if I can put it into practice effectively.

Thanks for all the comments everyone... good stuff!!

Tim.

 

[IDXMonster]

Daddy is spot on, according to MY usage. Maintaining a steady(doesn't have to be PERFECT) but a reasonably steady threshold is really important. We have to realize that for whatever reason there are going to be those horrible sites where nothing seems to work. Move on.

 

[daddyflea]

Thanks daddyflea. I may have to learn to run with more discrimination on the Etrac.
I'm used to running an almost open screen with the CTX with the help of the combined mode which the Etrac does not have.
I too like to hear everything under my coil. It will just have to be a null instead of a tone with the Etrac when it comes to iron.
May have to just slow down more or put on a smaller coil if the nulling gets heavy.

Bryan

Bryan Discrimination on an Etrac does not hurt the depth like other detectors. My Nulls are from items knocked out by Discrimination. You have to be aware that a Null could be a Discriminated target or could be your Detector Nulling over too hot a setting. The targets become obvious pretty quick, but you must always be aware that it could be too hot as well. I hate to bring this out but my Etrac really excells with Round Coils as well. The Sunray 8" is fantastic for Depth and ID. I also have the Large Sunray but I have used it very little. The slight depth advantage over the 8" is nullified by the blending of targets.

If you use my method those Coins will hit so hard you can tell the date before you dig it. 8" Dimes that register at 12-45 are always clad not silver. I hit a Silver Quarter last week that hit so hard it sent a text message to my phone and it was on end at 6".

I got permission to hunt a house I have been trying to get permission for years. Now that I am on it, I am finding someone else beat me to it. I have only found two Wheats and both of these were in the Garage where apparently they did not hunt. All the rest of the Coins were deep on end or Nickles where the older detectors had trouble. Etrac found them though.

Been digging in the Driveway for two days trying to get all the Coins out of there. Apparently the older Detector did not do very well in Gravel or since all of this so far is Clad, they lost a lot when they dug out their keys.

 

[daddyflea]

Here is the problem running hot means you miss many targets. Etrac selects the highest conductive target when it is set on High Trash. (Big Can) Then it sticks on that target and will not give another Screen Reading or tone until it goes back to Threshold and resets. This means than you might get a correct tone or might not but your VDI reading will only be correct for that one item and that last pass over the target. In order to get good depth you must insure that your ID is correct especially if like me. I run pretty high Discrimination and I am here to tell you I miss very little.

As far as Noise I find my Etrac is too quiet when run hot because it never gets back to Threshold to reset for the next target. Of course if you run high Discrimination you must be aware of Trash Nulling out. I like to hear these Nulls myself to know that everything is working right.

This may be a stupid question, but audibly... what is the difference between a quiet threshold and a trash null. I had always considered the threshold drop to be a discriminated item nulling the machine, but I am wondering about my perception after reading the comments above... ??

Regarding the headlights in the fog comment... the challenge in my area (and Bryan's) is that we seem to face difficult ground (high mineralization I am guessing), so placing the machine on auto +3 in some cases is like pointing your headlights straight down at the ground... you can see immediately in front of you, but total blackness beyond a few inches. I totally get the "brights in a fog" analogy which results in a wall of total whiteness... the trick is finding that middle ground, and I think Daddyflea's comments about managing the threshold by adjusting the manual sens makes sense, I just need to see if I can put it into practice effectively.

Thanks for all the comments everyone... good stuff!!

Tim.

The only STUPID question is one not asked.

A trash Null is where you sweep along and suddenly your Threshold goes completely silent or away. As you clear the target your Threshold comes right back. This is good and expected.

When you are too hot, everytime you wiggle your Coil regardless of direction your Threshold goes completely silent or away. In short they are the same but caused by different things. The Trash null allows Threshold to return as soon as you clear the target. The other stays as long as you swing your coil. I hunt old houses so you may get this in one area but a few feet over it is fine. In my area red clay fill dirt is bad.

In bad dirt Auto +3 is too hot and will cause you to lose Threshold and ID. I often have places I must hunt Auto+0. You lose a ton of targets when this happens because you are losing your ID.

That being said running in Manual at 17 Sensativity is deeper than 20 in Auto+3. I find that running in Manual at the Suggested sensitivity is just about as hot as you can run.

Please dont take my word for it. Get a dime silver or clad and run in Auto. Measure your depth. Now switch to Manual and look at the result. You will normally gain two inches. Now turn this same dime on end. This is why I find so many Coins behind other Detectors Etrac or not.

Some say ID is better in auto but I can see no difference myself.