Ground Balance Question

[gabbyhayes]

I am confused about the ground balance option.
Am I understanding the manual correctly .....leaving the GB enable option UNCHECKED is what is considered auto ground balance and should be used for most areas?
Should this also be the setting on fresh water beaches?
Thanx.

 

[Stever0812]

You are correct, unchecked means off, but does not mean auto ground balancing. The auto setting is for the sensitivity. The setting for your beach depends on what kind of mineralization you have and whether or not it is salt or freshwater. I dont do much beach hunting so I dont know the settings but im sure someone can help you out.

 

[gabbyhayes]

You are correct, unchecked means off, but does not mean auto ground balancing. The auto setting is for the sensitivity. The setting for your beach depends on what kind of mineralization you have and whether or not it is salt or freshwater. I dont do much beach hunting so I dont know the settings but im sure someone can help you out.

Thanx
I think you are misunderstanding my question.
If the box is unchecked the detector ground balances itself without any intervention or it's "automatic".... Correct?

I understand how the sensitivity works.

Setting the GB in FRESH WATER BEACHES also has me confused....GB enabled ...."checked or unchecked"??

 

[nagov]

You shouldn't need to have the box checked. I never have needed to GB at any saltwater beach I have hunted.

This is right out of the manual

"Ground Balance should not be enabled in most detecting conditions where ground
mineralization is mild. This includes most beaches, parks and sports grounds."

then on the next page:

Perform Auto Ground Balance
Ground Balance must be enabled to perform Auto Ground Balance.

Enabled means the box checked.......

 

[gabbyhayes]

You shouldn't need to have the box checked. I never have needed to GB at any saltwater beach I have hunted.

This is right out of the manual

"Ground Balance should not be enabled in most detecting conditions where ground
mineralization is mild. This includes most beaches, parks and sports grounds."

then on the next page:

Perform Auto Ground Balance
Ground Balance must be enabled to perform Auto Ground Balance.

This is the statement that confuses me. To me if the check box is enabled you do the procedure by lifting the coil off the ground......is this not manually ground balancing the detector? Yet the man calls it Auto Ground Balance. If this is auto ground balance, then when the box is unchecked the detector would be in manual ground balance. But if it is manual ground balace there should be some sort of adjustment????

Is this not confusing for anyone else???

With other detectors I own (Whites and Garrett's) when the machine is in auto you do bob the coil. When the machine is set to manual there is an adjustment where you set the ground balance and you can set it slightly neg. or pos. depending on what you are hunting for.....slightly pos for small gold....slightly neg if you want to increase sensitivity to standard targets.


Thanx for helping me make sense of the manual.

 

[Jason in Enid]

You are correct, unchecked means off, but does not mean auto ground balancing. The auto setting is for the sensitivity. The setting for your beach depends on what kind of mineralization you have and whether or not it is salt or freshwater. I dont do much beach hunting so I dont know the settings but im sure someone can help you out.

Thanx
I think you are misunderstanding my question.
If the box is unchecked the detector ground balances itself without any intervention or it's "automatic".... Correct?

I understand how the sensitivity works.

Setting the GB in FRESH WATER BEACHES also has me confused....GB enabled ...."checked or unchecked"??

No, this is NOT a regular detector like all the others. It does not see the ground minerals the same way as all the (non-minelab) others. If the ground balance box is unchecked, you are not telling the detector to try to compensate for minerals. You do not need to use the GB feature unless you have auto-sense numbers in the single digits. GB box unchecked means GB = OFF

 

[gabbyhayes]

Thanx for your explanation. I have been having difficulty understanding this detector, partially because this is my first minelab machine.
Also, I often compare the detector and how it operates, to detectors I'm more familiar with. I am learning that I can't do this because the detectors use different technologies to achieve a similar result. As as old algebra teacher of mine often said and I quote" you can't compare apples and oranges"
It is like learning a new language......you can't always translate from one to the other, you must just learn the new language.

 

[moparalph]

I have been learning the CTX-3030, and was wondering the same thing about the ground ballance. I too have been trying to compare it to other brands, as this is my first Minelab, its a whole different animal. Loving every minute of it tho.....Thanks for asking for me gabby...lol. And thanks for the explination fellow Okie, Jason.

 

[Jason in Enid]

This is one of the hardest concepts to get across, especially since most people don't have a deep understanding of exactly how detectors do what they do.


Usually single frequency VLF detectors use simple sine waves to generate the Transmit Electromagnetic field. This is the simplest way to do that. The data processing is ALWAYS done FOCUSING ON FREQUENCY VARIATIONS...That's way I called this "In the Frequency Domain".

Minelab FBS/BBS operates in a very different way. The related registered patent is about the use of a "multi-period rectangular wave" and the processing in the "Time Domain".
Your Etrac, Explorer, Safari etc.. just transmit a "train" of rectangular waves that have variable length. They could be thought as variable intensity "pulses" very similar to Pulse Induction Metal Detecting Technology. If you could see a ETRAC generated wave in your oscilloscope you could see this variable length rectangular shape repeating in the time continuously like a train.

While VLF continuously monitor the phase delay introduced by metallic targets in the transmitted wave, the FBS/BBS acts this way: . IT'S NOT THE FREQUENCY THAT MATTERS!!! IT'S THE DECAY OF THE SIGNAL AFTER EACH PULSE!!! ATTENTION PLEASE! "Targets have different signal decay when interacting with different frequency magnetic fields"!!!
As you can imagine this could remind you the PULSE INDUCTION technology and, actually, it's a sort of hybrid.
The most important issue is the STUDY OF THE VARIATIONS AS THE TIME PASSES!! That's why FBS is called "Time Domain" Operating Technology.

Hopefully that explained the difference in the minelab tech. They are not my words and I tried to simplify them to be easier to understand. Now I will try to simplify it further:

Regular detectors produce a continuous "S" shaped signal in the transmit coil. The receive coil listens to the returned signal and the processor compares it to the original transmit. When a piece of metal (or minerals) enters the field it gives off a shifted "S" wave. The ground balance on these detector is nothing more than shifting the comparison signal so it is back to the original. Because FBS doesn't look at phase shift, minerals don't have this same effect.

 

[MEV]

Hello, okey i am a little confused to , when the ground balance is not enabled ( checked) does it mean that the detector is ground balancing all the time while we are detecting , is it like the x terra 705 in tracking?

 

[Jason in Enid]

Hello, okey i am a little confused to , when the ground balance is not enabled ( checked) does it mean that the detector is ground balancing all the time while we are detecting , is it like the x terra 705 in tracking?

NO, when the GB is not enabled, it is doing nothing.

If you enable GB when it's not needed, it will REDUCE THE PERFORMANCE of your CTX. Do not turn it on unless you absolutely have to.

 

[gabbyhayes]

This is one of the hardest concepts to get across, especially since most people don't have a deep understanding of exactly how detectors do what they do.


Usually single frequency VLF detectors use simple sine waves to generate the Transmit Electromagnetic field. This is the simplest way to do that. The data processing is ALWAYS done FOCUSING ON FREQUENCY VARIATIONS...That's way I called this "In the Frequency Domain".

Minelab FBS/BBS operates in a very different way. The related registered patent is about the use of a "multi-period rectangular wave" and the processing in the "Time Domain".
Your Etrac, Explorer, Safari etc.. just transmit a "train" of rectangular waves that have variable length. They could be thought as variable intensity "pulses" very similar to Pulse Induction Metal Detecting Technology. If you could see a ETRAC generated wave in your oscilloscope you could see this variable length rectangular shape repeating in the time continuously like a train.

While VLF continuously monitor the phase delay introduced by metallic targets in the transmitted wave, the FBS/BBS acts this way: . IT'S NOT THE FREQUENCY THAT MATTERS!!! IT'S THE DECAY OF THE SIGNAL AFTER EACH PULSE!!! ATTENTION PLEASE! "Targets have different signal decay when interacting with different frequency magnetic fields"!!!
As you can imagine this could remind you the PULSE INDUCTION technology and, actually, it's a sort of hybrid.
The most important issue is the STUDY OF THE VARIATIONS AS THE TIME PASSES!! That's why FBS is called "Time Domain" Operating Technology.

Hopefully that explained the difference in the minelab tech. They are not my words and I tried to simplify them to be easier to understand. Now I will try to simplify it further:

Regular detectors produce a continuous "S" shaped signal in the transmit coil. The receive coil listens to the returned signal and the processor compares it to the original transmit. When a piece of metal (or minerals) enters the field it gives off a shifted "S" wave. The ground balance on these detector is nothing more than shifting the comparison signal so it is back to the original. Because FBS doesn't look at phase shift, minerals don't have this same effect.

When I have tried looking at the signal on my oscilloscope, (I'm an electronics tech) the scope can't lock on to the signal. I was trying to figure out the frequency and what other info I could garner. If this is closer to a PI machine that would explain why the scope had a hard time locking on. I did notice that it was a square wave.

 

[BetaGod]

So guys if i check the ground balance without start it with the pumping the CTX is balancing in auto? Without checking it's with no balance?
So... when i need to check the ground balance and when i need to start the pump?

 

[gabbyhayes]

So guys if i check the ground balance without start it with the pumping the CTX is balancing in auto? Without checking it's with no balance?
So... when i need to check the ground balance and when i need to start the pump?

You should leave it unchecked and let the detector take care of the ground balance is my understanding for 99% of the time.

 

[BetaGod]

So when i need to check the ground balance? and when i need to pumping?

 

[Jason in Enid]

Put your CTX in auto sensitivity. If the detector is always picking a sens level between 1 and 10, THEN it would be a good idea to enable the ground balance. Have you downloaded and read the user manual?

 

[trojdor]

So when i need to check the ground balance? and when i need to pumping?

As Jason said, if you're auto sens is less than 10, you MIGHT consider GB on. And that means highly mineralized ground.
Otherwise leave it off.

If you GB even slightly off, you will lose depth over what the machine can do on its own.
Note that the very similar design Etrac doesn't even have a GB option. That should tell you something.

See page 21 and 22 of the free, download-able manual for specific step-by-step instructions and recommendations.

mike

 

[BootyHunter]

n/t

 

[BootyHunter]

Lol this thread looks like the old Abott and Costello "Who's on first" gag. Here's the simplest way to look at the GB feature on the CTX.
1. 99% of the time, the Enable Manual GB box should be UNCHECKED. In this setting, the CTX automatically samples the ground mineralization and compensates accordingly. Think of it as "Tracking" which you may be familiar with from other detector manufactures.

2. If your auto sensitivity numbers are really low, like 14-9, 12,8, 11-7 for example, you are on some mineralized ground, such as that found in the southern states, Virginia, Tennnessee, Georgia, Alabama and manual GB is probably necessary

3. Then simply check the Enable Ground Balance, hit the GB button and start pumping the coil and you will hear the sound smooth out and the detector will tell you when it is balanced.

4. Re-ground balance regularly as the mineralization may change in a field and now you are in Manual GB which tells the detector "I will be responsible to keep you ground balanced now" so it is set to the last values it was balanced at until it is Ground Balanced again. But this is simple, just hit the GB button again and start pumping and you will hear if it is still quiet (balanced) or if the sound is wavering again which tells you it was out of balance.
That's pretty much it. Yes the owners manual is confusing, they needed an ol' country boy like me to write that section for them. Minelab, if you are reading this you can update your owners manuals with the above and I will be happy with 1 new model of every detector you come out with from now on for compensation

 

[glenn3-88]

In the menu go to the right from modes past geostore to Display. Press your menu button on
Display. Drop down to Detect screen and press menu again. Go down to the Sensitivity Panel
and make sure it is checked. Go back to using the detector and look at the bottom and you
should see a panel there showing what sensitivity you are actually running in white on the left.
To the right of that will be a green numerical number that the machine has processed and
telling you what sensitivity DUE TO MINERALIZATION AND OTHER GROUND CONDITIONS
it thinks you should be using it in.....Again, it is analyzing the dirt below the coil to see if there is
high mineralization. If that number on the right drops to the single digits, 9 or below, then you
need to manually adjust your ground balance by "enabling ground balance" and pumping it up
and down as you did other machines. Otherwise, turn that b---- off and don't worry about it as
long as that number appears at 10 or better. In my case, I run it either at that number or 2 to 3
points above that number. We are talking about sensitivity now. That machine is reading the
mineralization of the soil at all times "ground balance" is NOT enabled and you can call it
AUTO or you can call it OFF. Either way, if that number is above 10 you are hurting yourself
to enable and manually ground balance the machine.