Menu
What's new
Find's Treasure Forums

Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!

You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.

Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.

Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.

Click here to register!

Need Support Help?

Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you

:help:Trying to learn the tones.

J

John - Maryland

Member
I am struggling with tone identification of targets. Has Anyone tried the CD: Basic Ear Training for the Minelab Excalibur Metal Detector? Is it worth getting? Any advice on tone ID would be appreciated, but it will probable come down to experience.
 
Hi John,
Here is a recent thread on the tone/ear training cd.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1104614

Best Regards,
Steve
 
John where are you located? I am next to Baltimore, I can give you a quick shot of Knowledge, been hunting with the excal for 3 plus years. Got a couple videos on Youtube under Oldebeechnut..all with the excal and you can see & hear what I hear. Tonys CD is Great because you can listen as you drive, and we all do alot of that. But the tones are not that hard at all..Given time....Joe
 
This may be a dumb question, I have a Sov GT, will that CD offer any help to me?
 
Surfpro, what I do is when I start metal detecting I throw a nickel and a quarter on the ground and listen to the tones before you start. After twenty minutes or so do it again, then check bottle caps and pull tabs. In a short time you will learn what the sounds are telling you. GH, Don
 
SurfPro said:
This may be a dumb question, I have a Sov GT, will that CD offer any help to me?
Click to expand...

That is a great question because I have heard they sound similar. I will be anticipating a response to your question also.
 
comisoas said:
SurfPro said:
This may be a dumb question, I have a Sov GT, will that CD offer any help to me?
Click to expand...

That is a great question because I have heard they sound similar. I will be anticipating a response to your question also.
Click to expand...

There may be a Sov. CD in the works you can check http: // www. myspace. com/ betfe i spaced out the website because when you post it changes it, But it is Tony's website. I have the CD it has helped, I got it about 9mo. ago and i still listen to it..............HH
 
John, for the money its worth it. Yes you can do the field tests etc. but its nice sitting down in a quite setting and really listening to what the sounds are and then having the CD to listen to once a week to keep sounds fresh. I picked up on a gold ring sound from the tape and then when I heard it at the beach my heart skipped as I dug to actually find the gold ring, yes its worth it. The other learning tools that are as just informative are Clive's books all 4 of them.
I bought the Excalibur in Aug and was most disappointed with the machine, then I got the tapes and books and 7 gold rings and at least that many silver rings later "I'm a Believer" as the song goes.:happy: Keep in touch and let me know what you think of the machine, you can learn so much off of this forum.

Gerry
 
John did you get the 10 inch or 8 inch coil ,if you got the 10 inch, any in water drag problems? Earl Balimore
 
U CANT LEARN IT OVER NI TE TRY TO GET AWAY FROM THE JUNK INFESTED SPOTS IT JUST WANTS TO BE UR FRIEND IT SPEAKS DIFFERENT THEN U GIVE IT LITTLE TIME U WILL BE BEST FRIENDS
 
the ear cd does work great for me, i have an excal 2 and do find allot of stuff with it, the learning curve is a bit but once you understand the tones youll be in like flynn.:detecting:
 
THE BIG QUESTION IS: WILL THE CD BE APPLICABLE TO GT USERS ALSO????? ARE THE SOUNDS IDENTICAL BETWEEN THE TWO DETECTORS?
 
The only way your going to learn them tones is to dig all targets,then you can associate the tone with a particular target.As far as the CD I never had one but my own honest opinion its I feel you will be throwing away your money! Now get out there and dig dig dig! Good luck
 
comisoas said:
THE BIG QUESTION IS: WILL THE CD BE APPLICABLE TO GT USERS ALSO????? ARE THE SOUNDS IDENTICAL BETWEEN THE TWO DETECTORS?
Click to expand...

The answer is "No"....Hope this helps



FAQ Updated April 10th 2008



Where can I purchase the CD?

The CD is only available at Kellyco
http://www.kellycodetectors.com/accessories/excalibur_traning_cd.htm

Can I ear train with this CD if I hunt with a GT?

First I would tell you to listen to the sample clip on the audio player. It has clean samples of Penny (Clad) signals and Dime (Clad) signals. You can compare them to how the Penny and Dime sound on your Sovereign.

I find the sounds are related but NOT the same. In fact when I hunt with my GT it throws off my ear a bit in my signal recognition. Thus I would recommend against using the BETFE CD to train for hunting with the GT. (The CD will help in learning a fundamental approach to how you listen and evaluate the sounds)

I have been hunting with my Excal for years and I know it inside out...Do I need this CD?

No, The BETFE CD is a resource for new Excal owners or for those who do not get out often enough to build confidence in their signal recognition.

What settings did you use on your Excal when recording the signals?

Discrimination: Minimum possible
Volume: 1:00
Sensitivity: 10:00
Threshold: Just under audible (very slight but you have to stretch to listen for it)

Is there a difference in the signals between the Excal and Excal II signal tones?

The signals are the same. The Excal II has a slightly faster attack, sustain and release. I believe this is due to the Tornado coil. But the voicing of the signals is the same. I have verified this on tape with side by side comparisons.

Are you considering doing Ear Training CD's with other detectors?

Possibly, it depends on the feedback and need from the detectorist community. The Excal was the ideal detector for an Ear Training CD because the coil and headphones tend to be common to most Excal hunters. A GT might have a WOT coil with Gray Ghost or Rat Ear phones and suddenly there are too many variables that can influence the sound.

Why Do I need an Ear Training CD if I dig everything?

If you dig everything you do not need an ear training CD! But the point of eartraining is to help you master your detector. The one rule constantly emphasized on the CD is to 'Read the conditions and apply your eartraining accordingly'.

Discrimination through ear training is an acquired skill that you can turn on or off as you read your hunting environment. But if you do not have the skill you cannot access it when you need it. Thus there is no debating that knowing your detector better will make you a more effective detectorist. The art of detecting with Excalibur is when, where and to what degree you apply your ear training abilities.

Why is this Ear Training CD Unique?

This CD is the first time that principles of sound engineering have been applied to detecting signal recognition. It establishes terminology and definitions for the science of listening to these signals and the art of applying them.

Some of the concepts defined and discussed are: Signal Quality, Signal Shape, Attack, Sustain, Release, Signal Tone and Signal Intensity. Also concepts like the rule of "A high frequency of sameness" as well as a "water bias" Again concepts like "Fresh Ears" and "Signal Checks" are covered in detail. Sonic Signatures and Sonic Markers as well as Classic vs Anomaly gold are explained and discussed as well.

In summary there is simply nothing else like this CD on the market. For example: How do you verbally explain to someone the difference between a nickle signal, an aluminum poptop signal and a gold ring?

The answer is you "Play Clear samples of the signals right next to each other for A-B comparisons. Then you can point out the differences and the sonic signatures of each target.

What is the Sonic Marker for Aluminum? For Bottlecaps? For Gold? For Silver? All covered with samples and side by side comparisons on the CD.

Is Ear Training an effective way of identifying all signals?

No, The deeper a target is and the more worn/weathered a target is the harder it is to try and identify by ear. This is noticeable on signals such as bottlecaps where they can sound "round" when they are deep and yet when you get closer or dump them out of the scoop you can hear the broken sustain and classic bottle cap sound.

On the CD you say "read your conditions and adjust your ear training accordingly. Can you give an example of this?

Knowing your hunting environment is critical. A penny signal could be a very critical dig if you know that you are on an old lakeside beach that can produce Indian Head Pennies or perhaps a Flying Eagle.

Why is there so much confusion about what "Gold" sounds like?

When I first started hunting with Excalibur I was told Gold sounds like Bottlecaps. It doesn't. I have read advice on the forums saying it sounds like Pulltabs while others say it sounds like Nickles. In fact Gold sounds like Gold. Pulltabs sound like Pulltabs. A subset of Gold can sound like Pulltabs. Thus once you understand the overlap and hear the sounds next to each other it adds alot of clarity to what sounds like what. The Nickle gets alot of good press because it has a long smooth attack, a round sustain and a long smooth release. But a Nickle does NOT sound like the classic Excal gold signals.

Hearing the various signals next to each other really clears up the differences. Understanding "anomaly gold" helps to clarify the similarities and how it applies to the hunt.

How do you use the CD?

Since I have heard it often I tend to listen to the Beach Hunting Review Module. I like it because it moves along at a good pace and it is easy to contrast the common signals. Once you have listened to the "Signal Revew Chapter" a few times you will know what to listen for in the respective signals. After a while you will gravitate towards the "Training Runs" and "Beach Hunting Review Module"

Do you hunt the dry sand differently than you hunt the wet sand and water?

Yes...The dry sand has more trash and this can actually be helpful in that your ear is contantly being refreshed. In effect the large amount of trash signals help to maintain your relative pitch. In the dry sand I pass all bottlecaps and if it is very trashy I pass on the poptops with pronounced mids. I still end up digging some poptops in that some of them have a shade more of grainyness that makes me want to check them out. Yes you do have more of a chance of missing the anomoly gold but you cover more ground this way. Again if it does not sound exactly like a pop top (ear checks) I dig them.

Why should I ear train with a CD when I have been advised to "pay my dues and learn the machine by digging"?

The advice to "learn as much as possible by digging as much as possible" is excellent advice. It is the ultimate means of becoming one with your machine. But why not do both? By ear training you can DRAMATICALLY speed up the learning curve. In effect you are learning by tapping into someone elses advice and experience. You then take the pearls and lessons learned and you apply them to your treasure hunting. When I was in the military I remember shooting an M16 similator. It was a great tool but not meant to replace the process of live fire with a real M16.

Thus there is currently a controversy on the forums as to the viability of learning from recorded sounds. The current argument seems to be split between those who say "it works" and those who say "it will not". I do not buy into either side as for me the question is "can it help"? Will it give you valuable insights into the temperment and personality of your detector? Can it give you pointers and insights into how to listen and what to listen for? Will it help you decide when to apply these teaching points and when to just dig everything? I know the answers to these questions is a resounding yes!!!

I also know the old timers are right when they say get out and use your machine as much as possible! The 2 points supplement each other! Ear training and live hunting are inseparable. Live hunts will always have the edge on real world conditions. A CD will always have the edge on the convenience factor. Also bear in mind that a CD like a book is only as good as the person that made it. And finally the Excalibur is the "saxophone" of all metal detectors. It gives a wealth of nuance of information that most detectors cannot emulate. The excal does not have a screen because it does not need one.

HH
Tony

These are some of the questions I have been asked on the forums. Contact me if you have others and I will answer them here.
 
I really want to learn this detector. Right now I am frustrated with it , But I know there is an extensive learning curve, but that's OK, I like a challenge.
 
There is a lot of hoopla with learning the tones and all, with this CD coming available. IMO, it is more important you dig anything that gives you tone, at least in the surf/wet sand. Some of the targets just don't sound like a perfectly placed level target, as on a CD. If you get tone, you'd better be digging it. You would not believe some of the nasty tones I've dug and they turned out to be gold. I've said my piece, do as you will.
 
Thanks GH........Glad someone brought that up on the tone differences, I did not want to ruffy any feathers. Nothing like field experence, and letting the Excal pay for itself by digging all that signals in discriminate, good and ruff one's.......... Joe
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top