I have been using the CTX for close to a year, following advice I had received to just turn it on and go....I have had some good finds, and it does go deeper than the excaibur, but in looking to expand the use of the machine I have been reading the instructions and getting confused....Pattrn1 and Pattern 2...what are the differences?...also using the trigger to pinpoint...does anyone use it?...I will have more questions as I go along....I don't think the instructions are very clear at all and require a lot of back and forth through the manual, which in itself adds to the confusion...thanks for any help offered...Mark
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- Thread starter MARK (LI)
- Start date
Overvoltage
New member
Get "THE ALL POWERFUL CTX3030 BOOK OF KNOWLEDGE" 
It will help guide you on your journey to metal detecting nirvana.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?86,2223720
It will help guide you on your journey to metal detecting nirvana. http://www.findmall.com/read.php?86,2223720
JoeinMemphis
Active member
Don't know where to start. What are you hunting for and what are your ground conditions? I threw out all of the factory programs, they are flawed anyway and will cause you to loose the deeper coins as mineralization increases. I do use pinpoint, in sizing mode so it doesn't "ratchet" down on the target or on the strongest target under the coil and cause you to loose a weaker good target. Target trace and pinpoint trace on. As to patterns in P1 I have a more restrictive pattern, looser in P2. Oh, the instructions also tell you to do your noise cancel a foot off the ground, that is incorrect, it should be done on the ground (I'm usually looking for targets in the ground, not a foot off of it). Since you referenced the Excal I don't know if you are land hunting or water hunting, or if it is fresh or salt.
HH
Joe
HH
Joe
JoeinMemphis
Active member
n/t
GKMan
Well-known member
Definitely pick up Andy's new book that covers everything CTX related.
Pattern 1 and 2 are simply two different discrimination patterns that you can have stored per mode usually to compare iffy targets to see if an open pattern (little or no discrimination) gives you more information
I use the trigger for pinpointing. I have pinpoint lock enabled. Alternatively you can do the wiggle method for pinpointing
Also, as great as Andy's book is, don't forget to search this forum on Findmall for answers to your questions. A lot of us have been here from the beginning and must have touched on each item at least once, some many many times...
Pattern 1 and 2 are simply two different discrimination patterns that you can have stored per mode usually to compare iffy targets to see if an open pattern (little or no discrimination) gives you more information
I use the trigger for pinpointing. I have pinpoint lock enabled. Alternatively you can do the wiggle method for pinpointing
Also, as great as Andy's book is, don't forget to search this forum on Findmall for answers to your questions. A lot of us have been here from the beginning and must have touched on each item at least once, some many many times...
JoeinMemphis said:
FOR NOISE CANCEL:
I think I would follow the instructions as to, holding the "coil 12 inches above the ground". Not necessarily "done on the ground" as JoeinMemphis suggests.
The purpose of the Noise Cancel is to adjust to ambient electromagnetic interference (EMI). Although emi MAY be coming from underground sources as in an underground power cable etc., it usually comes from above ground sources. Powerlines, transformers, even other metal detectors close by, can create this interference, most, are well above ground level.
If manually ground balancing, then, closer to the ground would be appropriate. At that point the detector would be adjusting to the mineralization IN the ground matrix of detection, for smoother operation.
Just my opinion, for what it's worth.
JoeinMemphis
Active member
Then you would be doing it incorrectly, the purpose of noise cancel isn't to look for cell phone signals, police radios, or alien transmissions, it is to read the ground mineralization and adjust the frequency set (of the 11 combinations) to factor in the current ground conditions, nothing more. If you don't like my answer you can always read the "coil up or down" box on page 89 of the CTX 3030 handbook. By the way, if you check the ground balance box you just turned off the noise cancel function.
Joe
Joe
JoeinMemphis
Active member
If your coil is actually submerged, turn on the saltwater selection, if you are just on wet sand, it is not necessary to turn saltwater on, however if it is running unstable I would try it just to see if it helps. In any case you will put the coil ON the sandy bottom and use your noise cancel function. As I said in a separate post, you do not put the coil 12 inches above the ground, that's not where you're hunting, and is one of the errors in the manual. There is a great section on beach hunting, including a few discrimination patterns, in the new CTX 3030 handbook, and if you ever get a chance to take Andy Sabisch's CTX 3030 class I would highly recommend it. He covered a lot of misconceptions about the detector, including the incorrect items contained in the instruction manual.
HH
Joe
HH
Joe
JoeinMemphis said:
Sorry Joe, but I DO INDEED DISAGREE. THE FOLLOWING ARE DIRECT QUOTES FROM MY CTX OWNERS MANUAL. (I have a written copy I got from the Illinoise Minelab office in 2013 when I bought it) :
"Noise Cancel'
The noise cancel function allows you to eliminate electromagnetic interference (EMI) or noise from the detector.
The CTX 3030 may become noisy due to electrical interference from power lines, electrical equipment or other detectors operating close by. The detector interprets this interference as inconsistent, erratic detections. Noise cancel can be performed automatically (default) or manually.
Auto Noise Cancel instructs the detector to automatically scan and listen to every channel, and select the one with the least interference.
"Ground Balance'
Ground Balance (GB) allows you to easily adjust the detector to suit detecting in highly mineralized ground. In these conditions, correctly adjusted Ground Balance will help to find deeper targets that may be hidden by ground noise, as well as helping to stabilize target IDs. Ground Balance is best used in conjunction with Coin-Ground Target Separation"
I personally have NEVER had to use manual ground balance. Even on the beach in extremely heavy "black sand" (magnetite). I merely used the manual ground balance as an example.
NOISE CANCEL DEALS WITH ELECTRICAL INTERFERENCE, GROUND BALANCE DEALS WITH GROUND MINERALIZATION INTERFERENCE.
JoeinMemphis
Active member
Believe what you want, I also have a nice color printed copy, and it is just as incorrect as your copy.
"NOISE CANCEL DEALS WITH ELECTRICAL INTERFERENCE, GROUND BALANCE DEALS WITH GROUND MINERALIZATION INTERFERENCE." That is what I thought too until I started getting my information from more than one source, I think we are just going to have to disagree on this one.
As I said, try reading the "Coil Up or Down" box on page 89 in the handbook. When he explained the function in class it made perfect sense.
Joe
"NOISE CANCEL DEALS WITH ELECTRICAL INTERFERENCE, GROUND BALANCE DEALS WITH GROUND MINERALIZATION INTERFERENCE." That is what I thought too until I started getting my information from more than one source, I think we are just going to have to disagree on this one.
As I said, try reading the "Coil Up or Down" box on page 89 in the handbook. When he explained the function in class it made perfect sense.
Joe
C&RHunter
Active member
MI-AuAg said:
I agree with MI-AuAg. The Explorer and E-trac manuals say the same as the CTX manual about what Noise Cancel is for. I believe The Explorer and ETrac had an automatic Ground Compensation feature, that WAS NOT user controlled. The CTX added the ability to perform a manual or have an automatic Ground Cancel feature in addition to the Noise Cancel that can be manually adjusted or automatic. The automatic feature, once activated, will automatically find the channel with the least amount of electrical interference caused by underground or overhead power lines, or another detector nearby. The CTX manual can be downloaded from the Minelab website. They also have an app that can be downloaded to a smart phone. This app has manuals for several Minelab machines. I read what Joe is referring to in Andy Sabisch's book, which does say to put the coil on the ground. But since there are two separate functions on the CTX, one for Ground Balance and another for Noise Cancel, I will go with the Minelab manual (pg 19-22) on how to perform each function. The procedure in the Minelab manual has worked well for me since 2000, while using the XS, Etrac, and now the CTX. If I'm doing it wrong, so be it, I've had very good results.
The auto noise cancel after the initial setup, and auto ground balance monitor both parameters continuously, and in conjunction with each other make changes in things such as sensitivity (if not manually set by user) continuously for smooth, quiet operation. All the initial noise cancel setup does is get a base ambient reading. I've set my auto noise cancel as directed in the manual, and it's worked very well for me. You obviously know more about it than the designers and I, so I will say goodnight.
JoeinMemphis
Active member
Actually, it was one of the co-designers of the Excal and Etrac that explained it to me.
"The auto noise cancel after the initial setup, and auto ground balance monitor both parameters continuously, and in conjunction with each other make changes in things such as sensitivity (if not manually set by user) continuously for smooth, quiet operation. All the initial noise cancel setup does is get a base ambient reading." I completely agree with this statement, just not where the current manual tells you to do it. As I said, I hunt in the ground, not the air.
I came here to offer help, not to beat a dead horse or hijack this guys post, I'm done with it.
Night.
Joe
"The auto noise cancel after the initial setup, and auto ground balance monitor both parameters continuously, and in conjunction with each other make changes in things such as sensitivity (if not manually set by user) continuously for smooth, quiet operation. All the initial noise cancel setup does is get a base ambient reading." I completely agree with this statement, just not where the current manual tells you to do it. As I said, I hunt in the ground, not the air.
I came here to offer help, not to beat a dead horse or hijack this guys post, I'm done with it.
Night.
Joe
Ok...so I choose "BEACH" mode...go to edit and check off seawater and hit the detect button once and it brings me to a wide open screen,,,if I hit the detect button it brings me to another screen on which the bottom third or so is "grey" as is a small square at the top almost all the way to the left...so, those ar the 2 different patterns...are they predetermined at the factory, or did I inadvertently create them and install them somehow with out knowing that I did it?
Hello MARK (LI)
Each of the five pre-set search modes has two detection patterns. One more wide open, in that, it has less discrimination, one with a more agressive discrimination pattern. The gray areas, (on the detection screen) are the areas of discrimination (rejected). The white areas are the accepted target areas. Those two discrimination patterns are pre-set at the factory. They can be customized by you, using the pre-set program as the starting point..
As you expained it, you did not create any new search mode. At any time when creating a custom search mode, you can return to the factory default setting. I would suggest that before you create any custom search modes, you become very familiar with navigating within the search modes. Once familiar, you can create your own Search modes. The owners manual has step by step directions starting on page 32. I feel it is VERY important, that, before creating custom search modes you feel comfortable using, and navigating the factory programs.
When detecting, switching back and forth between the two patterns can help in identifying a target, and deciding whether or not to retrieve it.
Each of the five pre-set search modes has two detection patterns. One more wide open, in that, it has less discrimination, one with a more agressive discrimination pattern. The gray areas, (on the detection screen) are the areas of discrimination (rejected). The white areas are the accepted target areas. Those two discrimination patterns are pre-set at the factory. They can be customized by you, using the pre-set program as the starting point..
As you expained it, you did not create any new search mode. At any time when creating a custom search mode, you can return to the factory default setting. I would suggest that before you create any custom search modes, you become very familiar with navigating within the search modes. Once familiar, you can create your own Search modes. The owners manual has step by step directions starting on page 32. I feel it is VERY important, that, before creating custom search modes you feel comfortable using, and navigating the factory programs.
When detecting, switching back and forth between the two patterns can help in identifying a target, and deciding whether or not to retrieve it.
MARK (LI) said:
You're very welcome MARK.
From your original posts, you said you are primarily a beach hunter, but, are interested in land hunting. If I may suggest, as a way of making an easier transition, you start out by hunting a few tot lots with wood chips. They are usually more modern and contain trash, but, not a lot of iron. The good targets are mostly modern coins and the occasional jewelry. The point being, it is an excellent practice area. You won't be overcome by huge amounts of trash, but, you will learn what the target responses are, and the digging is VERY easy in wood chips.
Good Luck in your transition!
Johnnyanglo
Active member
Noise cancel has no effect on adjusting the detector for soil minerals. You can put the coil on the ground or in the air as the purpose is to find the quietest channel. All noise cancel can do is shift the transmit freqs by +/- 10% if we assume Channel 6 to be the center point. The E-Trac and CTX allow shifting the Channel 6's two channels: 3.125kHz and 25kHz down by 10% or up by 10% to avoid broadband noise.
The FBS machines normally do not need ground balancing because of the way they handle the reactive/resistive ground components, which is unlike most VLF machines which must be ground balanced. That is, the averaged Reactive ground component (from ground minerals) are subtracted from the Resistive component so the audio is hopefully just the pure audio (voltage) from that silver coin (Resistive without mix from Reactive minerals).
The genius of the FBS design is to eliminate the need to deal as much with the Reactive component, which is mostly decaying magnetic domains in ferrous minerals. If you measure the received signal at several points after pulsing the ground (and pulsing long and short pulses to determine the nature of the target too), the detector can eliminate the rather predictable Reactive decay rate. The standard VLF quickly loses TID capability in mineralized soils (large Reactive signal) because it also needs to know the Target Reactive nature but it is swamped by soil minerals.
The CTX and E-Trac are hybrids in that they measure at several target decay points the returned voltage in the receive coil, somewhat like a PI. By using long and short powered pulses at a low and high xmit freq, the measurements better reveal the nature of the target. That is, the Reactive nature of a target (its ferrous domains align when hit by the detectors field and randomize or decay at a set rate when the field strength goes to zero) are stronger at the end of a long pulse than a short pulse, while at the same time the target's eddy current effect (which opposes the primary field and tries to negates the field) has become weak at the end of the long pulse. So, the FBS long pulse reveals the ferrous nature of the target.
Thus, the FBS machines can TID better in highly mineralized soil because of the way they measure the received coil voltage at different time periods and differing pulse lengths. By using two freqs, high and low, xmitting sequentially in order, the FBS machines can further define the nature of the target.
But, again ... under normal soil conditions the FBS machines are turn on and go (no ground balance required). The Noise Cancel sets the low freq to the quietest channel and the high freq is just the eighth harmonic and moves accordingly. Noise cancelling with the coil on the ground may not make any difference, but it may be better to have the coil raised so the ambient external noise can be better measured.
I doubt the Noise Cancel is monitored by the detector after initially being set (not like auto-tracking ground balance). That is why it is recommended by ML that you occasionally Noise Cancel, as conditions may have changed since you last did it.
The Salt Mode on the CTX is to suppress the Resistive signal from conductive salts which introduces unwanted audio responses from the detector. Even with the Salt Mode on, the CTX will still respond if you slightly raise the coil while sweeping in salt water (seen as a rapid change in Resistive signal). You will also get low conductive beeps in salt water even with level sweeps as the concentration of conductive salts can be uneven. You will soon learn the difference between a repeatable non-ferrous target and the intermittent 13Fe 05Co salt response (which will also happen if you sweep the wet-drier sand along the shore or when a wave sweeps over temporarily concentrating the salt above the coil).
Johnnyanglo
The FBS machines normally do not need ground balancing because of the way they handle the reactive/resistive ground components, which is unlike most VLF machines which must be ground balanced. That is, the averaged Reactive ground component (from ground minerals) are subtracted from the Resistive component so the audio is hopefully just the pure audio (voltage) from that silver coin (Resistive without mix from Reactive minerals).
The genius of the FBS design is to eliminate the need to deal as much with the Reactive component, which is mostly decaying magnetic domains in ferrous minerals. If you measure the received signal at several points after pulsing the ground (and pulsing long and short pulses to determine the nature of the target too), the detector can eliminate the rather predictable Reactive decay rate. The standard VLF quickly loses TID capability in mineralized soils (large Reactive signal) because it also needs to know the Target Reactive nature but it is swamped by soil minerals.
The CTX and E-Trac are hybrids in that they measure at several target decay points the returned voltage in the receive coil, somewhat like a PI. By using long and short powered pulses at a low and high xmit freq, the measurements better reveal the nature of the target. That is, the Reactive nature of a target (its ferrous domains align when hit by the detectors field and randomize or decay at a set rate when the field strength goes to zero) are stronger at the end of a long pulse than a short pulse, while at the same time the target's eddy current effect (which opposes the primary field and tries to negates the field) has become weak at the end of the long pulse. So, the FBS long pulse reveals the ferrous nature of the target.
Thus, the FBS machines can TID better in highly mineralized soil because of the way they measure the received coil voltage at different time periods and differing pulse lengths. By using two freqs, high and low, xmitting sequentially in order, the FBS machines can further define the nature of the target.
But, again ... under normal soil conditions the FBS machines are turn on and go (no ground balance required). The Noise Cancel sets the low freq to the quietest channel and the high freq is just the eighth harmonic and moves accordingly. Noise cancelling with the coil on the ground may not make any difference, but it may be better to have the coil raised so the ambient external noise can be better measured.
I doubt the Noise Cancel is monitored by the detector after initially being set (not like auto-tracking ground balance). That is why it is recommended by ML that you occasionally Noise Cancel, as conditions may have changed since you last did it.
The Salt Mode on the CTX is to suppress the Resistive signal from conductive salts which introduces unwanted audio responses from the detector. Even with the Salt Mode on, the CTX will still respond if you slightly raise the coil while sweeping in salt water (seen as a rapid change in Resistive signal). You will also get low conductive beeps in salt water even with level sweeps as the concentration of conductive salts can be uneven. You will soon learn the difference between a repeatable non-ferrous target and the intermittent 13Fe 05Co salt response (which will also happen if you sweep the wet-drier sand along the shore or when a wave sweeps over temporarily concentrating the salt above the coil).
Johnnyanglo
