Hunting sites illegally . . .. what it means to the hobby (current news story)

[Andy Sabisch]

Here's an interesting story that JUST came to light and unfortunately shows that a highly visible minority can have some far reaching ramifications for the rest of us. I was told about this pair of occurrences by several state and federal archeologists that I know and wanted to pass it along here . . . . . .

If you know of someone breaking the law and collecting artifacts illegally, drop a dime and keep the rest of us from being branded with the same negative stamp.

I welcome any thoughts on the articles

http://thesga.org/2010/01/stiff-fines-for-site-looting-handed-down-in-burke-county/


Andy Sabisch

 

[BHNugget]

While they obviously knew what they were doing was illegal and got some heavy fines for it,some of these so called archeology sites across the western US are just plain BS.At least they werent using metal detectors or if they were the article never said so.

 

[montanagold]

Although I agree that hunting on private land without permission should have a penalty, I feel that it should be more like hunting big game on private land a seven thousand dollar find is a little much. I thing two would be sufficient to deter trespassers. As far as the archeology aspect goes I feel that maybe we should be a little more like Europe in that we are responsible to declare our finds and give museums the chance to purchase them. There are so many sites on public lands that will probably never be explored because of the laws that are in place. So much history decaying in the ground, granted there are some very important sites that should only be explored by a professional but so much would be discovered if we were allowed to detect smaller sites. A friend of mine was asked to help an archeology dig a year ago or so, it was an old battle field and they had sifted for 3 days and only found rusty nails. He came in and within an hour pulled out a very nice civil war artifact for them. In this day and age with so many environmentalists and spotted owl chasers I really think we miss the chance to find our own resources and explore the true history that we have come from. Just my thought.

 

[Eric in RI]

My hunting buddy and I mainly hunt parks and older schools. A few years ago we drove to cape cod to try out our machines in the dry sand. My buddy told me about this beach that looked awesome. It had a huge steep hill from the top of the parking lot down to the dry sand. We saw signs stating no walking on the hills, the usual parking signs this and that, but nothing about no metal detecting. We actually checked with a ranger the week before last asking where we could metal detect in cape cod and we were told they prefer us to hunt the beaches. So taking what he said into consideration, we figured we wouldn't have a problem hunting beaches. Well our first trip to this beach, my buddy found a Large cent and I found a couple silver rosies and wheats. That was our first trip. My second trip I went alone and found a 1893 barber quarter, another silver rosie and about 15 wheats. The third and final trip there my buddy was with me. We walked about a half mile down the coastline and my buddy found a Spanish silver half reale cob. I found a silver canadian quarter from 1963 and a couple of wheats. We noticed a huge crowd of people ways down the beach and saw what looked like a beached whale. So we turned off our detectors, walked over to them and discovered it wasn't a beached whale, but the bones of an old 1880's fishing boat that washed ashore. We saw people taking pictures of it, kids playing on it. One person even took a piece of the ships timber for their private collection. My buddy mentioned to someone in the crowd about finding a spanish cob down the coastline and this lady was fascinated by it and gave a line about how she's a history teacher and loves history. He talked to her for awhile about the hobby showed her the find and after the conversation ended, we walked back where we came from.

About an hour later we took a break and turned our machines off and decided to sit down and have a cigarette. When out of the corner of my eye I see someone frantically running in our direction. We didn't think anything of it and figured it to be a jogger on the beach which is common. Well it wasn't a jogger but it was a Ranger. Apparently the coastline of cape cod is a national park (appx 40,000 acres of coastline). He stated he had us on camera using our detectors, digging in the sand and putting objects in our pockets. He said that someone tipped him off that we were looting and one of us had found a national treasure. Guess that lady wasn't a school teacher but a archae narc. My partner and I had no idea it was a national park and stated we were told by a ranger the week before they preferred us to hunt the beaches. We were frisked, our finds confiscated and our picture taken on his trusty digital camera. He let us keep our detectors and wrote us citations. After all this happened we asked why they would tell us to hunt the beaches if it was prohibited in the first place? He answered we are only allowed to hunt the beach which is the width of the parking lot. (Gee, would've been nice of the previous ranger we spoke to would have mentioned that.) We also asked if its a national park, why aren't their signs stating no metal detecting? We even quoted the sign in the parking lot that said everything that was prohibited on the beach and it said nothing of that. His answer to that was we are supposed to research our sites before attempting to hunt, which I agree with him on that and stated we did and your colleague gave us false information. Too bad I didn't have the first rangers badge # because I would've did something about it at that time.


Needless to say I learned my lesson, I stick to the local parks and schools and said the heck with the beaches. Just goes to show you that the system is always against us detectorists, regardless if you feel you were doing the right thing and checking prior to your visit and given half of the information or not. Sound like entrapment?

 

[moseng]

Not so sure I would "drop a dime" but they were doing something illegal, got caught and suffered the consequences. IMO this speaks no more of our hobby than say if someone were to speed. It doesn't mean every one with a car will do the same, or that it gives a bad rap to all race car drivers!

 

[Jack Flynn]

I've hunted and fished all my life all over Burke County. Lot's of stuff to dig for sure, I don't care for digging but you ought to see some of the collections that locals have. The best way to gain access is to join one of the hunting clubs. Several are 20-30,000 acres that run along the rivers and creeks through the county. huge plantations also. Anyway the judge handed down some pretty stiff fines to these fellows. There's more to it than mentioned in the article......................

 

[jeff & Maria]

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[jeff & Maria]

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[jeff & Maria]

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[Andy Sabisch]

I've posted this before but the vast majority of us do the right thing and then some . ... returning lost rings, helping police departments find crime scene evidence, working with historians to save history before progress paves it over . . . . . . but often that is never communicated because we tend to be a group that does not think what we did is worth spreading the word about.

If we do more in terms of PR, the hobby will benefit as will the individual. Over the years I have returned more than 50 class rings and in many of the cases, I've called the local newspaper, told the local beat reported about it and they have done a short human interest piece about the ring being returned. I still do not accept a reward but anyone reading the story sees two things. First, that metal detectorists took the time to track the owner down and return it and second, they see me in the article. I have had people call me asking if I could help them find some lost item from these articles - in many cases inviting me onto some property that I had either not thought of hunting or gotten around to try and ask for permission. The same holds true with working with the police. I have been on a number of crime scene searches with clubs and in several cases, we have had a newspaper story done on the effort. You can be sure that in those where what we found helped the police with their case that if someone complains about metal detector usage down the road that the police will at least start out on your side and can help influence law makers before something gets enacted.

This event did not involve detectors but there have been several in the past few years where hunters with detectors were caught in National Park battelfields at 0300 with camo paint on their faces . . . . kind of hard to say you did not know it was illegal!

If we all do some positive PR in our local areas, we can promote a positive image that will help the entire hobby down the road . . . . . repealing a law once enacted is a hard thing to do - being proactive is a whole lot easier.

Andy

 

[Andy Sabisch]

In case anyone is interested in some reading, here's the link to the program that UK uses to recover and document finds made by detectorists . . . and the archeologists (while not all supporting the program) have seen that much of what they use to study has come from the hobbyists.

http://finds.org.uk/

It would be great to have a program in place that would ensure history is in fact captured for the history books . . . . .

Andy

 

[Barry NY]

This is EXACTLY what I am trying to accomplish by partnering up with one of the most prestigious Historical Societies in the US. Most of you have already looked at my post "Curious how much would you pay..." to see the plan. Right now money talks - let's use our passion that we have for our hobby to make positive change while the timing is ripe for it.

I believe that once my program is executed, with all the positive good PR we are going to get, we will be able to roll out this model across the US...

Barry

 

[gibsondan]

Any time you find something of great value, you've got to be careful - even if you're hunting a site perfectly legal to hunt. If you advertise, people will come out of the wood work laying claims on what you found. I read somewhere a man was metal detecting a beach. A kid walked over and asked if he found anything. The guy answered proudly he found a gold ring with a large diamond. The kid then ran off. Minutes later a woman came running over to him, with the same kid in tow, and frantically asked if he found her diamond ring. The detectorist asked her to describe it. When he refused to give her the ring, she went and got a police officer. The police officer asked her to describe the ring. She described it. The officer then asked to see the ring. He asked her if the ring was made of yellow gold. She immediately answered, "Yes." The policeman then informed her the diamond ring in his hand was made of "white" gold. He gave the ring back to the detectorist and the woman stormed off angrily. It was her kid and, apparently, that's a scam sometimes used on beaches.

When someone asks me if I've found anything, I usually reply, "Just pocket change." However the temptation to share a good find has gotten the best of me before...actually, very recently. :blush: On my most recent hunt when I was trying out my new 8x6 SEF coil, two young girls and a pimply faced boy walked over. These kids were about my daughters age. One of the girls asked me what I was doing and I shared this wonderful hobby of ours with them. When she asked me if I had found anything, I pulled a handful of coins out of my pouch and pointed out the two shiny Mercury dimes. I even let them hold them and check them out. (That's a big no-no! ) They were amazed at how old they were and how shiny they were compared to the other coins. They seemed pleased, gave the dimes back to me and went about their merry way. I know. I was a softy, but it went well. Maybe one day one of them will remember our encounter and take up this great hobby. But usually I answer with a smile, "Just pocket change" or "No luck today."

 

[Jason in Enid]

I don't see how THIS incident affects the hobby of metal detecting. They weren't using detectors. Just becuase there are looters doesn't equate to us.

I don't think the fines were too heavy though. They were knowingly tresspassing, and ran from the rangers.

 

[tsgman]

n/t

 

[Doctorcoinz]

Some times when i am out with the metal detector people have come up to me and ask if i found any thing , i usually just say all i have found is rubbish.
The thing to remember is that if you have found a gold ring or some other good find and you tell just one person then that person can tell his mate who has a detector and a good chance is possible that he will raid your site!. So the bottom line is NEVER tell a soul what you found on your site, it's a cast iron guarantee that others will try your site out if they think it's any good. The real hard core detector users in the uk never disclose anything.

 

[Dig]

These men weren't metal detectorists though...they were grave robbers. I agree that for the average, non metal detecting citizen, they will compare this incident in their minds to detectorists but, that's just lack of education on the subject. The difference between archaeologist and grave robber is a fine line, usually spelled PERMISSION (hehe with DEGREE in their somewhere). Don't get me wrong, I think what Anthropologists and Archaeologists do is extremely valuable but, I hate the fact that metal detectorists are viewed as a scourge to their field. I wish their was a common meeting ground where the people who study it (the Academics) and the people who find it (the MD'ers) could meet. Just think what could be achieved.

 

[edjcox]

Finders keepers loser weepers

That mantra is what set's people against MD hobbyists.

Your wife loses that diamond ring on the beach. 3 Months later a MD Hobbyist finds it. Does he try and identify the owner and return the ring? No he pockets it and grins, posts it on sites like this and gleefully speaks of is prowess with the MD he carries. Leaving the beach when asked he pulls out the junk and pulltabs he keeps in a special pocket just to decieve inquirers. (Even MD demigods advocate the deceptiveness)

So now you wonder why people are shutting folks off searching places...

I've heard of the people who try and return items found especially high value items. Yet we have folks who encounter ancient grave sites and the treasures buried with the dead who for some reason feel that property removed belongs to them. I guess fundamentally we have an ethics issue in this hobby.

That lost coin is one thing, the high value item, often reported to authorities of the park and beach, for some reason falls into the same hopper as the lost change. It's incumbent upon the finder to make a reasonable effort to return the high value items lost. The more that is done, the better our reputation and the outlook long term for the hobby.