I find it interesting that out of all the features and performance available on the T2, we only have one issue to focus on.

[Ralph Bryant]

Were you and I separated at birth ? Do you believe in a common link across vast distances of time and space ? Do you believe that two individual human beings can think alike on so many different subjects as to be considered uncanny and far beyond the chances of pure probability ? Are you scratching your butt right now ? I am. <u>MY BUTT</u> I mean !!

Seriously, I don't think it was Rick either. Totally not his style or verbage as you say. Sounds more like someone with an obvious financial stake in downplaying anything considered a challenge or threat. The type that would walk into church and slap the preacher right off, and then yell "SAVE ME !!". Now, I don't mind constructive criticism and debate over perceived "problems" with any new machine, but at least keep it on a civil level. I think if this gent would dig a little deeper into the posts, and if he had followed the various posts made about the T-2 on other forums before this one was established, he would realize that Mike and Pine were not talking so much about just a bottlecap here and there, but a carpet of the stuff. Big difference. I dug two rusty caps in the process of digging my first 132 coins with T-2, about a half dozen screw caps (I dig the zincs too), and a few other trash odds and ends including a few old square tabs signaling as nickels. This so-called "bottlecap defect" in the T-2 is really being blown out of proportion by some who don't understand that we've been discussing it only as one of the only existing perceived "issues" with this new machine. There just isn't much else to complain about, so we focused on that. Plain and simple. Back to the Cindy Crawford analogy......

Ralph

 

[BuckeyeBrad]

drinking any coffee when I read that first paragraph in your reply as my monitor would surely need replacing!

 

[pineapple]

Ralph, enjoyed your reply and would second it. I couldn't believe it when I wnet to my email board and saw that there was a huge number of Findmall response notifications. When I got in here I started to read them and had to weed my way through a flurry of "if this and if that's". All of the hoopla prompted me to sit down and write whatever is going to come out of my motuh next.:| Like you I am always trading machines as technology moves forward trying to get what works for me the best. I have always believed that in this hobby of ours there is no single detector that is suitable for all. Geographics, personal financial considerations, personal detecting preferences and a slew of other considerations come into play when deciding if one likes this or that detector. I will additionally say that I don't believe there is a such thing as a bad detector, just because a detector doesn't respond the way you may want it to does not make it bad (ever figured that it may not have been designed to?) . The bottle cap issue is a prime example of that. Because I or anyone else may have made a post and used the wrong terminology in identifying an issue they are having with the T2 doesn't mean it is a PROBLEM perse'. I personally (focus people, I said I...this does not make the issue universal or common to all) am experiencing proper identification of rusted bottle caps at depths of 6+ inches in wet/damp loamy and humus soil conditions, but this isn't to say the unit is the fault. I lean more to it being my fault than anything else. The T2 as I noted in some of my past posts is truly an awesome machine and probably one of the most sensitive and versatile unit's I have experienced. I have used many, many detectors in the past and currently am comparing the T2 against the Coinstrike, GTI 1500, XLT, TimeRanger, DFX and a few others just to name a few. I will say that the T2 is right there with the best of them and will beat a few of them hands down. Because I am having having issues down here in the deep south does not imply nor should it that the T2 would perform completely the same in another geographical location or other conditions. We all know or at least should be smart enough to recognize this. I hate it when folks jump to conclusions or want to disect someone elses choice of words to try and spin it to mean something totally out of context. I will stand on record as saying thus far my experience with the T2 has been 98% favorable. Yes, I have experienced a few things with it that I personally may not like or would have preferred to be different but that does not take away from the performance of the unit itself, it's just a personal preference thing and has a lot to do with the geological aspect of my hunts. I would advise anyone thinking the T2 is going to die a quick death to rethink that conclusion. I said it before and will say it again, the T2 is a keeper, no one can change my mind about that. Then again that is solely my opinion and I know someone will jump on that too.... Go ahead if that's what ticks your clock. Well, Lemme go since I can see where this is going. Y'all draw your own conclusions as to what the T2 can/cannot do.....I am perfectly happy and content thus far with all I have experienced. I never dreamed to begin with that ANY unit would have all of the features/functions that I personally (focus on the I personally) would like to see on one, just doesn't work that way!

BTW, Mike H....I didn't have a chance to get out and try what you suggested last evening. By the time I got off work we were under tornado watches and warnings. It rained so hard you couldn't see 10ft in front of you, not prime detecting weather. Will try it though first chance I get.

Y'all be good and don't get too wrapped around the axle over trivial BS. In closing I will say that I have NEVER been to a forum where there wasn't at least one and I am not talking about opinions either (Urkel quote: did I say that?).

 

[Ralph Bryant]

n/t

 

[Anonymous]

Does that word mean, "un-noble"?

 

[Steve missouri]

Ralph: over the last 25 or so years, and 150 + Detectors I have never found a Detector that would not identify some trash items as good targets as we both know this comes as part of the hobby. Occasionly I will see a post on the forums from some one saying that he thinks his detector is in need of repair, because his TID said quarter and instead he found pull tabs or bottle caps, as we both know this is an immediate indication of a newbie that has bought the advertising hype of know what's in the ground before you dig it, we also know that this speaks loudly of inexperience or ignorance. Carl to me is reading the same way, who is he trying to impress, or what is his agenda ?

 

[Garry/OH]

Hey Fred...I live in central Ohio...what part of Ohio do you hunt? I'm just curious as to the Ace's performance...also...do you run into any hot rocks, and have you run the Ace around them? Garry/Ohio

 

[BarnacleBill]

n/t

 

[Ralph Bryant]

SMOOOOOOCH !

 

[Ralph Bryant]

I agree Steve, you can read alot into someone's experience level by the things they say about their detectors or their expectations based on advertising hype.

The first and most obvious is "D E P T H", mine is deeper than yours mentality. GREAT ! Lets go hunt a few trashy areas, and I'll take my little Compadre with the 4 inch coil. You take your "depth". And just to make it interesting, lets hunt for titles. You win, you get my Compadre. I win, I get your $1000 target masking monster. Then I can sell it and buy 6 more Compadres and take the wife out for a nice dinner and a movie. It's important to understand the concept of "the right tool for the job", and that one detector won't "do-it-all" or do it well in all types of ground.

Another major newbie misperception is target ID accuracy like you mentioned. These machines are nothing more than computers, not so much different than the one in front of you right now. They only work as well as they are programmed to work, and in the sense of target identification, they only amount to a "best guess" based on the information being received back from the target compared to how they are programmed to interpret that target information. They can't "think" on their own or even make a logical guess beyond what is programmed or designed into them. That pull-tab and that gold ring that both give the same phase reading or effective conductivity signature are basically the "same thing" to the detector. But a newbie to the hobby automatically assumes that there is something wrong with the machine if it is not 100% accurate 100% of the time. As you say, we know better. And that just comes with experience and learning the different aspects of detector design and capabilities.

I think another sign of an experienced detector user that tends to be the opposite of the newbie view, is that the newbie thinks there is some inherent ability of a machine to "do better" based on how many knobs or adjustments it has, or based on just the price. That "may" be true if the experience level is there to operate such a machine in the first place, but experience tells us many times that there is alot to be said for plain old simplicity. It's been said many times before, that an experienced user with just the most basic machine will regularly clean the clock of a newbie armed with a top-of-the-line machine that he doesn't understand or doesn't know how to operate properly. For a simple and casual coinshooting excursion, give me a stock Tesoro Compadre in my area over most anything else on the market, and let's compare coin counts at the end of the day. This is not saying that there is not some benefit to having more "depth" ability WHERE IT CAN BE USED, because there obviously is. I'm just saying that "depth" is all too often probably one of the most understood and overrated concerns in this entire hobby. Somewhere along the way, you get to the point of diminishing returns when you begin digging deeper and deeper holes, which takes time away from detecting and recovering MORE targets. That is to say, "IF" there are even any targets below certain levels that warrant the extra depth to begin with.

Alot of this general concept applies to other aspects of the hobby as well, and the operation of the different machines available. Some machines hit a brick wall at certain points or limitations in their tuning capabilities, some handle iron differently, some fail to provide us with much more than just the basics, but they will ALL find metal. That's what they do.

Ralph

 

[Steve missouri]

Ralph: We seem to agree on all points, especially on the Comparde, a simple machine with a small coil, that the searcher knows how to use will produce better most every time. Separation rather than depth is the factor that usually produces the best. Most of the coins are not over 8 inches in the areas I hunt, relics are about the same, I know that soils differ in other areas, but in the three or four states I hunt the simple detector and smaller coils work better. I like you enjoy playing with different Detectors, I currently have 28, and tend to try the new ones as they come out, however we agree on what usually prooduces. Steve

 

[Ralph Bryant]

Sheeesh, and I thought I was addicted ! I think I have a total of "only" 11 or 12 at the moment.....ummmmmm, well.....not counting the two I have on the way.....less one I have sold. Sometimes the boat is taking on water faster than I'm bailing.

Ralph

 

[John in Florida]

That's an amazing number! I have only one. It does most things quite well, and I get better with it every time I'm able to spare a few moments to get out.

The manufacturers must love Steve.

 

[John in Florida]

Are you the dealer in Springfield?

 

[Steve missouri]

John: I live 15 miles south of Columbia Mo. in a town called Ashland, you are correct that the dealers love me, some get quite excited when I call, I used to do the same thing with firearms, I have broken that addiction, I still have several,however no longer buy, sell and trade like I used to. I don't fit the mold of the average hunter of coins and relics, I like to play with the machines to see what is new, usually I find that not much is different, I'm not much of a relic hunter, even though I like the history of them. Primairly I hunt coins and find that simpler Detectors do better, however I am always looking at new Detectors, who knows when a real change may happen. I should mention that I am trying to break this habit and settle on only a few Detectors, no real success so far. Steve.

 

[ALOW1]

Carlk56 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can rationalize this all you want, but the
> bottom line is that you have a metal detector that
> is a high end unit, and the top of its line, that
> will not properly identify steel bottle caps. And
> this is something the original motion detector,
> the Red Baron, would discriminate. If a Garrett
> Ace 250 will identify a bottle cap, and do it for
> under $200, something is very wrong. And this is
> the only iron problem we have heard of-SO FAR.
> Evidently the man that designed this "marvel" is
> in the metal detector witness protection program,
> because he is not to be found-or he is out with
> some ETs testing its bottle cap rejection on the
> Moon.
> So continue with the spin and hype, and the T-2
> will die a quiet ignominious death.
> And if I am correct, the man hosting this forum on
> the T-2 is selling his-that's a ringing
> endorsement.



I own a Fisher CZ-7a Pro, seems to me that I have dug many a bottle cap that registered as coins. You can argue all that you want that this is an issue, if the T2 is such a pile of junk and its only as good as the rest of the 200 dollar machines on the market as you stated on here, then I way operpaid for my Fisher.



Now can somebody that knows what they are talking about tell me how well this machine will compare to my Fisher, as I am in the market to purchase a new machine to try out.

 

[Texas T]

I only discovered this T-2 detector about 4am this morning.
I also went through all of the discussions (if thats what you want to call it?)concerning the Thr's plauge..steel bottle caps. Having had that 25 cent smile wpied off of my face many times. I am not a techno-geek but some experience has came to mind. Firts of all the bottle cap showing up as a quater, lets say on a Black-bow digital Whites. Icon says quater alright. However the signagraph reading does not match a true quater coin. Garrett GTI series, one of the advertised features.."See what size it is befor you dig"..Point is Per Dave Johnson "quote" (T2)"conspire to make bottle caps "LOOK" like coins. Seems like various units read more than just the conductive metal, but also the size and or configuration of a target.
I know it is elementry. but a bottle cap intack or flattened mimiks
the SHAPE of a quater.Hence some detectors and there are several.
Will Icon a quater, but have some additional features to help further
contribute to a final decission of "is it or isn't it"= dig or move on. Last but not least..I do not care one way or the other. Having
found that, the ID is right for quaters more than it's wrong.
Got a quater reading once in a volly-ball field, @9"(Whites Eagle Spectrum).find..turnd out to be an 18K-medalion with a small diamond in th middle. Love those quaters steel or real. Maybe this T-2 has
multiple indicaters to decifer to help one pass over the plauge.

 

[Mike Hillis]

You are right and thats what we have been bent on discovering. So far the other indicators are a bouncing numeric id number, a broader pinpoint signal, and some audio charateristics, as well as a spiking Fe meter in soils that are able to let it.

 

[Mike Hillis]

and my ground conditions aren't conductive to depth test at the moment. We are just too dry. Maybe Pineapple had some results he can share.

I do know that so far, I have found coin targets just as deep as the CoinStrike has, but then again, I haven't really been able to challange the Coinstrikes ability in my ground very often. Read some more of the posts for a bit and maybe that will help until we can post some more info.

Happy

 

[Ralph Bryant]

These are the two CZ units I have the most experience with, and I can say unequivocally that the T-2 has some definate advantages over either, with better depth being only one of them (assuming stock coil usage). The T-2 is a so much faster responding machine than the CZ that there really is no comparison as far as target separation and target response. I've posted about this several times, and the implications of having a stock double-D coil design compared to a more standard concentric, and the comparative ability of each kind to separate closely co-located targets combined with a much faster target response and recovery speed. Target response speed in particular is one of the first things I look at in testing a machine, simply because of the fact that I like to hunt coins in trashy areas. The T-2 is at top of the list in that category as far as a true TID (VDI) detector is concerned, and as quick as any non-ID two filter machine I have ever used. Slow response and the inherent "retarded" operation of such machines compounds target masking problems to a very significant degree, and I am a firm believer that there are many more coins (old and new) hidden due to target masking than due to unreachable depths by most middle or upper-end machines on the market. While the so-called "fourier domain" multi-frequency circuits of the CZ units can have some advantages in wet saltwater conditions, it is hard to overstate the importance of having a more reactive machine when it comes right down to picking out good targets from amongst the trash. The high gain potential of the T-2 also allows for better reaction to small and fringe depth targets that the CZ sometimes has trouble with, especially very small gold jewelry items. I have a couple of very small gold test nuggets that weigh in at a fraction of a gram that are detectable to a good 5+ inches with the T-2 that require literally scrubbing against the coil of either the CZ5 or CZ3d to even produce a signal. In the salt mode of either machine, they fail to signal whatsoever.

As Mike implies, the T-2 is still the new kid on the block, and considering the time of year and drought conditions in many areas, it will just take some time to get a full range of tests and comparisons done with these new units.

Ralph