I have another question about the Etrac FE CO numbers

[Idprospector]

I read somewhere that the FE number is more or less info about the ground around the target, and the CO number is more about the target itself. Is this true, or even kind of true. Lets say for example I have properly ground balanced and the numbers I get are 25-47 from all directions and those numbers seldom jump around. The depth reads 6 to 7 inches. What is the probability that my target is silver? The tone sounds great but there are way to many targets like these to dig them all. How about targets that the FE number jumps from 5 to somewhere in the 20s but the CO # stays at 44,45, 46, or 47?

Also, what does everyone describe the term "iffy signal" as? Does iffy mean it doesn't sound quite right, or the numbers dont fall into place like expected? Having detected all over Boise with many different detectors I feel that I should be finding more silver.

Feel free to message me if you have a pattern to share. I have a few places I would like to try a silver only pattern, then go back over with a gold only pattern. My area has lots of Iron bits and little iron ore peices so narrowing down the targets I am looking and listening for is just something I want to try.
Any help would be appreciated. Idigid

 

[LandOLincoln]

The more you disc out the more you're going to miss. I went out with the trashy park pattern and found some silver but since most of the screen was discriminated out I wasn't getting anything but hits on targets that weren't surrounded by iron or other trash. I switched to Andy's coin pattern and I've found 3 barbers and an IH that never made a chirp with the trashy park pattern. The numbers all came in 17-24, 39-45. After working the targets and sometimes switching to TTF to confirm I was able to determine there was silver mixed in with the junk. This is all just from a tiny piece of the park I worked over hard with the trashy park pattern. Key is low and slow with little disc and using as many tools as the machine provide.

 

[Big Boys Hobbies]

Best advice I can give you is listen for good solid repeatable hits. DON'T look at the screen, listen. If it sounds repeatable, dig it. Best way to learn the Minelabs. Auto sensitivity coins mode as well.

 

[Southwind]

I don't think the FE is determined from the surrounding ground but the ferrous properties of the target. I think the FE is less accurate/jumpy because the ground, in most cases, has some iron content which also influences the FE numbers but not the CO. That is why the CO is more accurate/steady.

I think "iffy" will vary from user to user but for me it most often a signal that sounds good in 1 or 2 directions, but not in all directions.

Sometimes I'll get the good sound that says coin/iron from all but 1 direction and when I pinpoint it doesn't not pinpoint at the same spot where the sound was good. In this case it will more than likely be iron. If it pinpoints, in all directions at the same spot the good sound is, then I call it iffy and recover it.

 

[Jason in Enid]

FE has nothing to do with iron, CO has nothing to do with silver, copper, or any other metal!!! You people need to get that out of your heads! They are differing aspects of a targets signal response. Minelab could have called them X and Y, or Yellow and Green.

FE numbers have nothing to do with ground matrix.

 

[Diggin Metal]

I'm also new to the Etrac this year and I like to run it like I do with any detector I have or had is to disc out as little as possible,
Wrong or right it works good for the iron laden fields I hunt an the Etrac is the best I have used.
I like to open up the screen & use 2-tones Goes4Ever has instructions on his site here http://goes4ever.mymdforum.com/minelab-etrac/

With this set up you don't have 50 tones to listen to just 2 hi tone or low tone.
this will allow you to here where the iron is because if a seated dime is 5" next to 2 nails above the target and you are discriminating out all the iron you may just get a threshold null or no signal at all because the machine has not recovered from identifying the junk target and the dime is masked by junk. If you swing is supper slow you may get a blip but you will most likely move on.

With TTF in most cases you will here a Hi tone because the machine will mix the objects together if there close enough and give you a dig sound (Don't over power the sens until you feel confident with identifying what is good and what is falsing, (after time the iron grunts go away I don't even listen to them low tones are like the threshold I don't even here them)
HH GL

 

[Southwind]

FE has nothing to do with iron, CO has nothing to do with silver, copper, or any other metal!!! You people need to get that out of your heads! They are differing aspects of a targets signal response. Minelab could have called them X and Y, or Yellow and Green.

FE numbers have nothing to do with ground matrix.

WRONG!

From the manual:

E-Trac has the Digital Screen that shows both
the ferrous content(also known as the iron content) (FE; range 1

 

[Djay-Mo]

My Etrac seems to be confused some of the time, I have dug several short iron bolts with a nut on them because the ferrous/conductive #s were 12-46 all the way around.They also sound sweet.So if the Etrac can measure ferrous content of a target why does this happen some of the time.
Experience has taught me alot about Iron and Aluminum,but me( and the machine) still get fooled from time to time.
Nothing is 100% absolute in metal detecting.

 

[grouser]

the fe #'s do not have anything to do with iron,,,,, as stated they could have called them x and y,,,,,, as far as getting good numbers on iron that is what the halo effect does for us. Try to switch to an open screen/iron mask and it will tell you if it is iron or not when it jumps into the right lower corner of the screen,,,,

 

[Southwind]

You know, saying FE numbers have nothing to do with iron is like saying the numbers on your speedometer have nothing to do with speed. Sure in the most idiotic form those number are just numbers and could have been anything, but as it is they happen to be numbers that represent the iron content of a target. Saying that FE numbers has nothing to do with iron is plain and simply false.

You don't need to believe me just read your manual

 

[texasranger]

FE has nothing to do with iron, CO has nothing to do with silver, copper, or any other metal!!! You people need to get that out of your heads! They are differing aspects of a targets signal response. Minelab could have called them X and Y, or Yellow and Green.

FE numbers have nothing to do with ground matrix.

******************************************​

Dear Jason.

Sorry to inform you, but you haven't a clue on the subject matter.....I intend no offense when I state that.

It is no sin or reflection on your intelligence that you lack understanding of what is a complex subject, but it is a pain in the arse when you unintentionally confuse those other detectorists who are trying to discover the facts of the matter. ie. What the FE numbers represent, and what determine their value.

Here are a list of the several components that determine the value of FE numbers.

(i) Frequency involved.

(2) Conductivity and magnetic permeability of the metal.

(3) THICKNESS of the metal.

(4) Finally, the FERROUS content of the metal....if it indeed it has any....Silver and copper don't, so their relative permeability is approximately one

(5) The Ferrous content of the matrix surrounding the target, which relates to the VOLUME ratio of Fe minerals-to-soil, embraced by the detector's search pattern.


The proof of what I've stated requires an understanding of the AC electro-magnetics / physics and associated maths.


If you want it, I can oblige.....otherwise, just take Southwind's correct comments, and leave it at that......Tex.

P.S.....FE..is a simple term assigned by Minelab to the effects involved.....The more scientific one is called Inductance.

 

[grouser]

well both of you need to tell Andy Sabich he has got it wrong in his book then cuz on page 13 in a very large highlighted box that starts off with "A MUST READ" he states
"An important point to understand is that while the two components of a targets signal have been designated FERROUS FE AND CONDUCTIVE CO they could just as easily been called Xand Y. There is no true metallurgical analysis being performed on each target that the detector sees despite what the terminology infers. The FE and CO values are simply coordinates on a graph assigned arbitrarily by the software developed by Minelabs engineers".
now who is confused?

 

[Southwind]

I believe the point Andy was trying to make is that the actual number does not reflect a direct content amount. I.E. a FE of 20 does not mean the target has a 20 parts iron content, but it does reflect the iron content just not a scientific amount. Yes it could have been X Y instead of a number, but what does the X Y coordinates indicate? ferrous and non ferrous make up of the target.

ferrous:adj/NL ferrosus fr. L ferrum/ (1865)
1f, relating to, or containing iron
2:being or containing of divalent iron

nonferrous:adj(1887)
1: not containing, including, or relating to iron
2: of or relationg to metals other than iron

Obviously FE/Ferrous does in fact have to do with iron.

We're getting a bit off the subject.

 

[grouser]

happy hunting