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Initial impressions and questions from a Newbie (using Ace Apex)

RgnFn

New member
Well, after a lot of research and hemming and hawing, I finally took the plunge and bought a Garrett Apex. There were a few other models out there that intrigued me (e.g., MineLabs), but I wanted to buy American made, so it came down to the AT-Pro or the Apex, and I got the Apex because it has newer technology, and I won't be going underwater, so I won't miss the underwater capability of the AT-Pro. I live in Northern Virginia in a 120 year old farm house - there was at least two other houses here before - one burned down during the civil war (still don't know which side burnt it), and its replacement burned down in 1900 in a kitchen fire. So I knew there'd be a lot of trash. Every time I dug a hole to plant a bush or something, I'd find melted glass and charred bricks, bits of broken pottery, and metal junk. One of the reasons I selected the Apex was the generally positive reviews of it's ability to unmask targets. I took a chance and got the Raider coil (8.5 x 11 DD) rather than the Viper (6 x 11 DD) because I was afraid that the Viper might have been too small. In retrospect, I'll probably want to get the 5 x 8 DD Ripper coil. Another reason I selected the Apex is because I have high-tension (200kV) electrical lines going through our property. I wanted the Apex's ability to change channels to avoid EMI interference.

So now I've had two 90-minute sessions with my new baby. It took some fiddling with the channels to find the combination that seemed to settle down the EMI interference. I seemed to have better luck with single-frequency than the multi-frequency, but that may be a factor of the high-junk or the multi-frequency being more sensitive to the EMI. I also took the sensitivity down to 5 (from :geek:. The Apex would grunt at something in the 20's on just about every other swing. In some places, the readings would jump all over the place from 5 to 80- to 50- to 20- to 40- something. That would get really annoying. Sometimes the last number would linger on the screen for a second or two even when I moved away from the area, which would make me wonder if it's the EMI causing that. So far I have dug up nothing but junk. But the good news (if there is any), is that most of the junk I dug up was non-ferrous. I found some copper sheeting (probably from a roof), some brass items, and today I found two bullets (right near our front door!), one of which was likely of civil-war era (it is a nice mushroom shape - it had hit its target, but from the base appears to be .38 caliber), the other one was copper-sheathed and is around 1/4 inch in diameter.

I was discouraged about the amount of junk I was digging, but to the machine's credit, most of it wasn't ferrous. I've gotten tricked a number of times when the machine would clearly find multiple targets, one in the 70s or 80s and the others lower or in the iron range. When I'd dig them up, it would invariably be a largish piece of iron - a can lid, a smashed tin can, or something like that. I gather that the VDI is really made up of composition and size components - a large iron item seems to register with a high VDI. I had gotten to the point where when I heard a high tone along with lots of iron grunts, I'd pass it by. But for some reason I stopped at one where I was clearly getting a mid-70s reading with separate iron grunts - I don't know why I stopped at that one when I had been disappointed at other similar situations - maybe it was something subliminal about the way it sounded. And sure enough, I *finally* found my first coin after 3 hours of searching! It was.... wait for it.... a 1971 penny! Only 49994 more to go and I'll have this thing paid off! But I was impressed at the machine (and a little of myself) that I found that penny at about 4-5 inches when there was a piece of barbed wire (twisted and about 1.5 inches long) above the penny at about 2", and there was a can lid about two inches below the penny (this can lid had a ceramic or white-glass liner at the lid- it's the second one I found, not sure what it was for - maybe a cold-cream jar lid?). I still don't know what made me dig that signal and not others that sounded roughly similar.

Lastly, I found that aluminum cans chime in around 90, but luckily those are usually close to the surface so I can find them without digging. I found lots of scraps of aluminum, evidently debris from siding. Dug up some foil too here and there. So it's the aluminum that's really giving me fits, not the iron junk. Lots of false hopes here, but it's the site, not the machine. Lastly, I do like the pinpointing feature on the Apex, but with so much trash it sometimes would sound just a strong in a couple of nearby places. Sometimes when it would seem to "pinpoint" in a 6" diameter, I'd just walk, figuring it's a large object. But when I do dig, I am really glad I bought the Garrett Pro-Pointer AT - I just need to find 14995 more pennies!!

Well, that's it from this 3-hour old newbie. I'd appreciate your advice on the how I can better differentiate what to dig and what not. One of the reasons I chose the Apex was because of the generally favorable reviews on the various "iron nail tests". But what I thought I learned from the various videos I've seen is that if you hear a grunt-hightone-grunt, that there's probably a good item in between some iron objects. In fact, I sometimes clearly hear separate signals, but when I dig, it's junk - either a large non-ferrous junk or (surprisingly!) several pieces of iron junk in proximity (so why the high-tone at all?). How should I interpret a spot where the VDI numbers go crazy? Also, since the single-frequency seems to work better near those power lines, which frequency would y'all suggest seeing as I'm primarily after coins (i've been using 15kHz so far)? Finally, do y'all think a smaller coil (i.e., the 5x8 Ripper) would be worth investing in (will I find enough pennies or even a dime or two to pay that one off <g>), considering the amount of junk at this site? Thanks for indulging my long post.
 
Looks like you are doing good at taking logical steps.
Your home, from your the description sounds like it is on the difficult side for anyone to hunt with all the trash.

One suggestion to help you learn your detector - If available find an easier place to hunt like a school playscape with wood chips - Easy digging and dig every target until you learn patterns and numbers.
Take note and bring what you learn home with you.
 
Looks like you are doing good at taking logical steps.
Your home, from your the description sounds like it is on the difficult side for anyone to hunt with all the trash.

One suggestion to help you learn your detector - If available find an easier place to hunt like a school playscape with wood chips - Easy digging and dig every target until you learn patterns and numbers.
Take note and bring what you learn home with you.
I agree. Come back to that 120 year old farmhouse at a later date. Go to a park or school like Coin Rescue mentions and learn from there. Otherwise you may get discouraged and give up on detecting.
 
Welcome to the forum.. I hope you you be able to get most of your technical questions answered . EMI can certainly wreak havoc on many detectors . I do not own an Apex , but if it is a multi frequency machine you would be better off in multi mode. I have 2 minelabs both multi frequency. They work well to eliminate EMI . You may have to make adjustments such as scanning for the best frequency in your area, and adjusting your sensitivity a little at a time until the chatter starts to go away. Also if you are not looking for iron relics , use more discrimination to eliminate any iron. If the site is as trashy as you think , then you might want to get a smaller coil. I went from the stock 11 inch coil on my Equinox 800 to a 6 inch and I have made some good finds in areas I already hunted with the 11 inch coil. I mostly hunt colonial homesites here in MA. The smaller the coil the less targets under the coil at one time. The best way to not get discouraged is to stick with it and really get to know the machine and what it is telling you. I slow my swing speed way down when I detect trashy areas , mostly because of the amount of targets in the ground. Large iron and old tin cans (especially the rusted ring of a can ) will produce a good signal. Iron discrim. will usually help in this situation. Make yourself a coin / relic garden . Try to distinguish the different sounds and VDI . Happy hunting . Hope this helps .. Maybe someone who owns an Apex will chime in.
 
Hey RgnFn,

Any detector will find junk along with desirable stuff.. It’s inevitable, and part of the process. A lot of times, YouTube hunters don’t show you the junk. But they dig it, too. That said, the Apex is really quite capable as a good all around detector. Sure there are better ones out there but they come at a higher price point.

Maybe spend more time with it and learn the tones. I’ve been hunting with the Apex for nearly a year now. I don’t rely a lot on the VID unless the target is in clean soil without a lot of trash, but that doesn’t happen around my location often. I listen to the tones. I set the custom mode notches to accept everything down to about 25, sensitivity at max., MF mode where I can, iron off, iron vol. at 2 or 3. This way you can hear the low grunt sound of iron when it’s close to a target.

If you hear a high tone mixed with a grunt, dig it. It could be a coin shadowed by a nail. Or, it could be a large square nail. It happens. If you get a grunt and a lower tone, it could be junk, or it could be a coin with a nail above or below it. The choice is up to you whether to dig or not.

If EMI is too high and it affects the detector, I shift the channel up or down or switch to 5 or 10 KHz single frequency, or reduce the sensitivity. With the Raider coil, you are going to cover more ground per swing, but if you have more than one target under the coil, it may average the signal and may present jumping VDI like you mention. Your recourse is to swing back and forth over the target and try to separate the two items. Sometimes rotating on the target helps with this, or a slightly slower swing speed.

I have the Viper coil as the OEM coil, and bought both the Raider coil and the Ripper coil. I usually hunt a site with the Viper coil, mostly because of its lighter weight. If the site exhibits a lot of iron or other junk I switch to the Ripper coil. The Ripper coil is fabulous in a junky site. I have found coins in areas where I could not separate them reliably with the Viper coil, hence I use the Ripper coil a lot. I have used the Raider coil too, but it is not as useful as the Ripper in most of my hunt sites, because of the iron and minerals in the soil.

As you said, you can pinpoint the target, moving the detector around to “size” the target. Coins definitely have a smaller PP footprint, where cans, jar lids, etc., will have a larger PP footprint. I use this trick all the time. Oblong items like a pocket knife and the PP footprint will follow the shape.

Digging deep iron that sounds good is common too. I don’t think there is a way around this.

I bought the Apex WHP package, and it’s liberating to no longer be tethered to the detector with the headphone cord. I bought the Pro Pointer AT with Z-link. It’s wonderful, too. Detecting in noisy areas are no longer an issue. You did not state which Apex or PP you bought.

Recently my son and I detected an 1860s homesite, and it was littered with junk. He used a new Nox800, and I used the Apex. He managed 10 wheats, and 6 silver dimes and some junk. I recovered a silver quarter, 3 silver dimes, 7 wheats and a 1950s Oneida baby spoon in excellent condition and junk. So it’s possible to find good targets, once you learn the machine and it’s tones. All in all, it was a great hunt, not typical of an old farm site in my area.

I would thoroughly go over an area of your homesite with the Raider coil carefully listening for high tones amongst other tones. Dig the high tones. Also, once you have removed some of the trash, you will find more Items of interest. I’d invest in a ripper coil after you have a more hours on the machine and feel more comfortable with it. I believe you will enjoy the Ripper coil on your homesite. And others. I hope this helps.
 
A Big Welcome to You to the forum here from Georgia. Congrat's to you on the purchase of the Apex. If you haven't already, watch Utube videos on the Apex. Best of luck to you with many finds and saves with the the Apex. As far as who may have burned the House on your property during the Civil War, or (the War of Northern Aggression), my bet would be on a group known as YLM, or Yanks Lives Matter. They made their way across Georgia to the sea, burning Atlanta on their way. Yes, this would be my guess.
 
YLM, good one! Hey RgnFn, welcome from Idaho!!! You’ve gotten some good sound advice so far! It takes a person a bit of time to learn the language your detector speaks and every different soil/sand and other conditions will influence its dialect as well. You should read the Garrett/Fisher/Minelab/Teknetics/ BountyHunter/etc forums, even tho what their “readings” are may be different than your Garrett. I drive a Fisher and my readings are way different from Minelab numbers but pay attention to their other descriptions. Just remember that gold rings can pop up in everything from high iron numbers to zinc numbers. I assume your old home is going nowhere for awhile so as suggested go to a park or playfield and get a feel for coins from trash and then go back home and preserve your landscape!!! Post a few pics of the good, the bad, and the ugly as we’ve all been there!
 
Thank you all very much for the warm welcome and your advice. I agree with coinrescue, earthlypotluck, and ronaldj2 that I would benefit from practicing at a less trashy site or coin garden. I have devoured all the videos I could find on the subject, but there's no substitute for experience. When I do hear a high tone between grunts, I do attack it from several angles to see if there's any difference (and often there is), it's not those that are troubling me so much as when I get readings all over the place. My suspicion is its because of the larger coil, so I am inclined to get the Ripper coil eventually, but am willing to practice more with the current one for a few dozen more hours before adding another variable (new coil) into the mix.

To answer dig5050's question, I did get the wireless package (and the wireless pro pointer), but haven't even tried that yet. It's quiet here, so I got along fine without the headphones.

LOL re: YLM, Confetrit, you're more right than you know! I live a mile from the railroad tracks, and it seems that the locals when they got bored would blow up the tressel whenever a Union supply train would pass by (see "Fun With Dynamite" by Lee, R. E.). Well, that wouldn't go over well, so the Yanks Lives Matters folks would stage a "mostly peaceful protest" and burn down some of the locals' houses to teach them a lesson. I'd wager that there's a good chance that the house was purposely burned down by the Union (there's still a chance it was simply an accidental fire, or occasionally the locals burned down their own houses to keep them from being commandeered by the Union).

Thanks, Ronstar, I shall look at the other forums as well. I do rely as much on the tones as I do on the VDI numbers, and I have dug a few items in the 50's. There's just so much to choose from! I should mention that I'm currently searching areas farther from the house which are likely to be more trashy, as there is baby grass in the lawn that I don't want to disturb just yet. So the more promising areas will have to wait for a month or two. In the meantime, I'm learning the hard way, kinda like learning to swim in the deep end I guess. It's fun nonetheless.

Thanks again for the advice and for making me feel at home!
 
Here's one of my more interesting finds. It's a bit of non-magnetic metal, probably brass/bronze, that says "1750" on it (sorry, the picture doesn't do it justice). It has a bit of a curve to it, so I presume that it was part of a base of something. I doubt it was made in 1750, but probably was part of a phrase like "patented 1750", "since 1750" or maybe even "model 1750". Any guesses would be appreciated.
 

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Well, after a lot of research and hemming and hawing, I finally took the plunge and bought a Garrett Apex. There were a few other models out there that intrigued me (e.g., MineLabs), but I wanted to buy American made, so it came down to the AT-Pro or the Apex, and I got the Apex because it has newer technology, and I won't be going underwater, so I won't miss the underwater capability of the AT-Pro. I live in Northern Virginia in a 120 year old farm house - there was at least two other houses here before - one burned down during the civil war (still don't know which side burnt it), and its replacement burned down in 1900 in a kitchen fire. So I knew there'd be a lot of trash. Every time I dug a hole to plant a bush or something, I'd find melted glass and charred bricks, bits of broken pottery, and metal junk. One of the reasons I selected the Apex was the generally positive reviews of it's ability to unmask targets. I took a chance and got the Raider coil (8.5 x 11 DD) rather than the Viper (6 x 11 DD) because I was afraid that the Viper might have been too small. In retrospect, I'll probably want to get the 5 x 8 DD Ripper coil. Another reason I selected the Apex is because I have high-tension (200kV) electrical lines going through our property. I wanted the Apex's ability to change channels to avoid EMI interference.

So now I've had two 90-minute sessions with my new baby. It took some fiddling with the channels to find the combination that seemed to settle down the EMI interference. I seemed to have better luck with single-frequency than the multi-frequency, but that may be a factor of the high-junk or the multi-frequency being more sensitive to the EMI. I also took the sensitivity down to 5 (from :geek:. The Apex would grunt at something in the 20's on just about every other swing. In some places, the readings would jump all over the place from 5 to 80- to 50- to 20- to 40- something. That would get really annoying. Sometimes the last number would linger on the screen for a second or two even when I moved away from the area, which would make me wonder if it's the EMI causing that. So far I have dug up nothing but junk. But the good news (if there is any), is that most of the junk I dug up was non-ferrous. I found some copper sheeting (probably from a roof), some brass items, and today I found two bullets (right near our front door!), one of which was likely of civil-war era (it is a nice mushroom shape - it had hit its target, but from the base appears to be .38 caliber), the other one was copper-sheathed and is around 1/4 inch in diameter.

I was discouraged about the amount of junk I was digging, but to the machine's credit, most of it wasn't ferrous. I've gotten tricked a number of times when the machine would clearly find multiple targets, one in the 70s or 80s and the others lower or in the iron range. When I'd dig them up, it would invariably be a largish piece of iron - a can lid, a smashed tin can, or something like that. I gather that the VDI is really made up of composition and size components - a large iron item seems to register with a high VDI. I had gotten to the point where when I heard a high tone along with lots of iron grunts, I'd pass it by. But for some reason I stopped at one where I was clearly getting a mid-70s reading with separate iron grunts - I don't know why I stopped at that one when I had been disappointed at other similar situations - maybe it was something subliminal about the way it sounded. And sure enough, I *finally* found my first coin after 3 hours of searching! It was.... wait for it.... a 1971 penny! Only 49994 more to go and I'll have this thing paid off! But I was impressed at the machine (and a little of myself) that I found that penny at about 4-5 inches when there was a piece of barbed wire (twisted and about 1.5 inches long) above the penny at about 2", and there was a can lid about two inches below the penny (this can lid had a ceramic or white-glass liner at the lid- it's the second one I found, not sure what it was for - maybe a cold-cream jar lid?). I still don't know what made me dig that signal and not others that sounded roughly similar.

Lastly, I found that aluminum cans chime in around 90, but luckily those are usually close to the surface so I can find them without digging. I found lots of scraps of aluminum, evidently debris from siding. Dug up some foil too here and there. So it's the aluminum that's really giving me fits, not the iron junk. Lots of false hopes here, but it's the site, not the machine. Lastly, I do like the pinpointing feature on the Apex, but with so much trash it sometimes would sound just a strong in a couple of nearby places. Sometimes when it would seem to "pinpoint" in a 6" diameter, I'd just walk, figuring it's a large object. But when I do dig, I am really glad I bought the Garrett Pro-Pointer AT - I just need to find 14995 more pennies!!

Well, that's it from this 3-hour old newbie. I'd appreciate your advice on the how I can better differentiate what to dig and what not. One of the reasons I chose the Apex was because of the generally favorable reviews on the various "iron nail tests". But what I thought I learned from the various videos I've seen is that if you hear a grunt-hightone-grunt, that there's probably a good item in between some iron objects. In fact, I sometimes clearly hear separate signals, but when I dig, it's junk - either a large non-ferrous junk or (surprisingly!) several pieces of iron junk in proximity (so why the high-tone at all?). How should I interpret a spot where the VDI numbers go crazy? Also, since the single-frequency seems to work better near those power lines, which frequency would y'all suggest seeing as I'm primarily after coins (i've been using 15kHz so far)? Finally, do y'all think a smaller coil (i.e., the 5x8 Ripper) would be worth investing in (will I find enough pennies or even a dime or two to pay that one off <g>), considering the amount of junk at this site? Thanks for indulging my long post.


Welcome RgnFn: to the forum & I really liked reading your long post because now I',m not the only long-winded writer on the forums! I am unable to detect anymore (Illnesses) but sure enjoy reading about PPL'S detecting adventures & finds! Also, I'm a Jesus Believer, so like Christian stories, too! God Bless & the more you use your detector the better you will know in using it & find more & better treasure of coins & relics--along with the TRASH! Ma Betty
 
Sounds like you are making a good & typical start in the hobby. You have a wonderful but harsh first place to hunt. Dive in and don't give up. Keep digging & learning & you will have the best crash course to become proficient. You are going to find some really neat stuff along with the junk.( not all junk is junk) Half the fun is accurately IDing things and filling out the site's history. I also would recommend getting the 5X8 coil. Have fun & keep us informed on your adventure.
 
Well, after a lot of research and hemming and hawing, I finally took the plunge and bought a Garrett Apex. There were a few other models out there that intrigued me (e.g., MineLabs), but I wanted to buy American made, so it came down to the AT-Pro or the Apex, and I got the Apex because it has newer technology, and I won't be going underwater, so I won't miss the underwater capability of the AT-Pro. I live in Northern Virginia in a 120 year old farm house - there was at least two other houses here before - one burned down during the civil war (still don't know which side burnt it), and its replacement burned down in 1900 in a kitchen fire. So I knew there'd be a lot of trash. Every time I dug a hole to plant a bush or something, I'd find melted glass and charred bricks, bits of broken pottery, and metal junk. One of the reasons I selected the Apex was the generally positive reviews of it's ability to unmask targets. I took a chance and got the Raider coil (8.5 x 11 DD) rather than the Viper (6 x 11 DD) because I was afraid that the Viper might have been too small. In retrospect, I'll probably want to get the 5 x 8 DD Ripper coil. Another reason I selected the Apex is because I have high-tension (200kV) electrical lines going through our property. I wanted the Apex's ability to change channels to avoid EMI interference.

So now I've had two 90-minute sessions with my new baby. It took some fiddling with the channels to find the combination that seemed to settle down the EMI interference. I seemed to have better luck with single-frequency than the multi-frequency, but that may be a factor of the high-junk or the multi-frequency being more sensitive to the EMI. I also took the sensitivity down to 5 (from :geek:. The Apex would grunt at something in the 20's on just about every other swing. In some places, the readings would jump all over the place from 5 to 80- to 50- to 20- to 40- something. That would get really annoying. Sometimes the last number would linger on the screen for a second or two even when I moved away from the area, which would make me wonder if it's the EMI causing that. So far I have dug up nothing but junk. But the good news (if there is any), is that most of the junk I dug up was non-ferrous. I found some copper sheeting (probably from a roof), some brass items, and today I found two bullets (right near our front door!), one of which was likely of civil-war era (it is a nice mushroom shape - it had hit its target, but from the base appears to be .38 caliber), the other one was copper-sheathed and is around 1/4 inch in diameter.

I was discouraged about the amount of junk I was digging, but to the machine's credit, most of it wasn't ferrous. I've gotten tricked a number of times when the machine would clearly find multiple targets, one in the 70s or 80s and the others lower or in the iron range. When I'd dig them up, it would invariably be a largish piece of iron - a can lid, a smashed tin can, or something like that. I gather that the VDI is really made up of composition and size components - a large iron item seems to register with a high VDI. I had gotten to the point where when I heard a high tone along with lots of iron grunts, I'd pass it by. But for some reason I stopped at one where I was clearly getting a mid-70s reading with separate iron grunts - I don't know why I stopped at that one when I had been disappointed at other similar situations - maybe it was something subliminal about the way it sounded. And sure enough, I *finally* found my first coin after 3 hours of searching! It was.... wait for it.... a 1971 penny! Only 49994 more to go and I'll have this thing paid off! But I was impressed at the machine (and a little of myself) that I found that penny at about 4-5 inches when there was a piece of barbed wire (twisted and about 1.5 inches long) above the penny at about 2", and there was a can lid about two inches below the penny (this can lid had a ceramic or white-glass liner at the lid- it's the second one I found, not sure what it was for - maybe a cold-cream jar lid?). I still don't know what made me dig that signal and not others that sounded roughly similar.

Lastly, I found that aluminum cans chime in around 90, but luckily those are usually close to the surface so I can find them without digging. I found lots of scraps of aluminum, evidently debris from siding. Dug up some foil too here and there. So it's the aluminum that's really giving me fits, not the iron junk. Lots of false hopes here, but it's the site, not the machine. Lastly, I do like the pinpointing feature on the Apex, but with so much trash it sometimes would sound just a strong in a couple of nearby places. Sometimes when it would seem to "pinpoint" in a 6" diameter, I'd just walk, figuring it's a large object. But when I do dig, I am really glad I bought the Garrett Pro-Pointer AT - I just need to find 14995 more pennies!!

Well, that's it from this 3-hour old newbie. I'd appreciate your advice on the how I can better differentiate what to dig and what not. One of the reasons I chose the Apex was because of the generally favorable reviews on the various "iron nail tests". But what I thought I learned from the various videos I've seen is that if you hear a grunt-hightone-grunt, that there's probably a good item in between some iron objects. In fact, I sometimes clearly hear separate signals, but when I dig, it's junk - either a large non-ferrous junk or (surprisingly!) several pieces of iron junk in proximity (so why the high-tone at all?). How should I interpret a spot where the VDI numbers go crazy? Also, since the single-frequency seems to work better near those power lines, which frequency would y'all suggest seeing as I'm primarily after coins (i've been using 15kHz so far)? Finally, do y'all think a smaller coil (i.e., the 5x8 Ripper) would be worth investing in (will I find enough pennies or even a dime or two to pay that one off <g>), considering the amount of junk at this site? Thanks for indulging my long post.
Take your time listen to your detector have patience and don't get discouraged.
If gold popped out of the ground everyone and his brother would be detecting
Welcome aboard.
 
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