Iron falseing

[Texashunter61]

I am new to this forum and really appreciate all the knowledge on this board. I recently purchased an omega 8000 and love it. I'm still trying to learn its language but feel I'm getting there. My question is about iron falseing. I prefer the d3 tone mode but the randome high tone beeps drive me crazy at times. When I do get a deep repeatable high tone signal it tends to be nails or other iron. Does recognizing coins verses iron nail falseing just come with experience or is there something with the tone or TID I'm missing.

 

[TerraDigger]

Hi Texas.....welcome to the hobby. Yes, the Omega can identify certain nails as good. Mostly if the nails are bent. Bent nails fool just about every detector. No way around that. However, what I like to do to identify nails/iron/ferrous targets in general, is to use the 'heel' method. This is a fairly well known technique. Normally a detectorist swings the center of the coil over a target when trying to ID it. This will work for you if its coins/non-ferrous targets. However, if its iron, the centered coil sweep will work against you.
Simply start sweeping the 'heel' (coil part closet to your body) of the coil over the target, gradually pulling the coil away/off from the target. Most iron targets (except bent nails) will cause large fluctuations in the ID numbers (anywhere from 20-70 points) A coin/non-ferrous object will usually only have a small fluctuation (0-10 points). This technique should help identify most (not all) pesky iron. Big/flat thick iron pieces are tough to disc sometimes. Get some old iron bottlecaps/junk iron and bench test at home using the heel of the coil. The technique will become apparent very quickly. Good luck.

p.s. I forgot to add, the audio on iron will start breaking up along with large ID number fluctuations. It will be very apparent over the smooth sound of a coin/non-ferrous target.

Credit for heel technique goes to Monte who popularized it. He termed it "edge pass rejection". Monte is a detecting/FindMall Guru

 

[Texashunter61]

Terradigger, thanks for that advice about the "heel" method, I will definitely give that a try.

 

[TerraDigger]

Another add-on. Raise the coil technique. Slowly raise coil while sweeping over target. A coin/non-ferrous will retain the smooth sound although as the coil raises the strength of audio fades. But it always stays smooth until it fades. Iron/foil on the other hand will start to break up (chattery) in the audio or sometimes the audio just abruptly disappears (small foil is notorious for disappearing), even though the initial audio signal was very strong. A coin will never abruptly disappear, it just fades away as coil height increases.
Now go get that Texas silver/gold

 

[Big Boys Hobbies]

Great post Terra! Lots of good info for people here!

 

[Gorillajoe]

Wish i had known about the edge technique, I had a good solid hit today reading 58 on id. I tested 3 gold ring prior to this and all 3 locked in at 58...what I thought was gold turned out to be a rusty old iron clasp of some kind! I semi noticed its inconsistency while tilting the coil several different ways...really good info thanks for sharing!

 

[Monte]

Nails, bolts, bobby pins, small rusty tin, bottle caps and all manner of typical iron/ferrous junk were easily rejected with those good early-day TR-Discriminate models. They became very popular in the early 1970's and retained a good following even through the late '80s. With the 'new' introduction of Ground Cancelling Discriminate designs starting with the Bounty Hunter Red Baron in '78 we saw a shift to the motion-based discriminate circuitry models away from conventional TR-Disc. start.

It was a slower start to change due to the very fast sweep of those early designs and their higher price tags. A lot of hobbyists using the 'old fashioned' TR-Discriminate models just enjoyed their results even though they often lacked better depth, along with tougher use of the conventional TR-Disc. models in rough, uneven ground. In '82 Fisher introduced their 1260-X, and in '83 Tesoro brought out their Inca and Silver Sabre, and from there the race was on!

These models gave us some lighter-weight designs that balanced well, and they also used a slower-sweep, 2-filter circuit designed compared with the fast-motion 4-filter types. While I always work in as much urban hunting as I can, most of the time I am seeking either renovation work or, better still, out-of-town sites such as homesteads, stage stops, railroad depots and sidings, old resort sites, pioneer or military encampments, and other similar places that often abound in nail infestations, at least, and often more smaller size ferrous junk. They are also brushy and that can limit search coil maneuverability.

While I did own and use some early motion-based 4-filter detectors, mainly from White's, I preferred my VLF/TR-Disc. models (Ground Balanced All Metal mode/conventional TR-Disc. mode) complimented by a simple TR-Disc. detector, at least until we got a slower-sweep detector. By '79-'80 I had figured out the weaknesses of the 'new' and 'better' detector designs, and that meant learning not just their strengths but also their weaknesses. The biggest weakness was their affection for rusty bottle caps and some other smaller ferrous-based junk.

Instead of providing a nice and clean rejection with a low Discriminate level setting, those annoying targets could produce some up-scale visual Target ID readings. I knew they were not always that solid or 'lock-on' as well as a non-ferrous target and figured they were supposed to register as 'Iron'. After working with a lot of target samples and then naturally located trash targets, I found the quirk in the design operation and learned how to 'Classify a lot (maybe most but not all) iron just so that I could get an Iron Target ID as well as a proper Iron target rejection.

I coined the terms 'Quick-Out' and 'EPR' (for Edge Pass Rejection) to describe these techniques and started teaching them in my seminars in '81 and helping my customers learn how to get the most performance out of their detector. Due to the challenges of our modern motion Discriminate models, the EPR technique often works the best, and it might need to be 'enhanced' by adding a little short and brisk sweep speed (Quick-Out) to help it.

Edge-Pass Rejection usually doesn't refer to the very outer edge of the search coil, but a spot that is towards the edge and often about

 

[Texashunter61]

Thank you guys for sharing your vast knowledge. I will be heading out today and will practice these techniques. Again thanks for your info.

 

[TerraDigger]

Texas, I forgot to add a critical step in the following quote from my previous post. I was mentally preoccupied that day with the multiple spinal injections I had this morning.......ouch!!!!

"Another add-on. Raise the coil technique. Slowly raise coil while sweeping over target. A coin/non-ferrous will retain the smooth sound although as the coil raises the strength of audio fades. But it always stays smooth until it fades. Iron/foil on the other hand will start to break up (chattery) in the audio or sometimes the audio just abruptly disappears (small foil is notorious for disappearing), even though the initial audio signal was very strong. A coin will never abruptly disappear, it just fades away as coil height increases."


In doing the raise technique, after the target has been centered, use the heel portion of the coil as your raising coil. This is very effective for iron. Iron will many times read good if the lower 1/3 of the coil is sweeping it. But when the edge of the coil heel is just slightly off the target, then the iron starts to reveal what it is. In other words, the electromagnetic field , lets say 1" outside/off of the actual physical coil is whats telling you its iron by the broken up signal/widely varying ID numbers. A coin/non-ferrous object under the same exact circumstance will retain its smooth unbroken sound/stable ID numbers. Now the deeper the object is whether iron/coin, the harder it is to use this technique. Mostly this is a issue if soil is highly mineralized, like in Idaho. You should be good though on deepies, as Texas is low in mineralization.
Now the raise coil technique for (small bits) of foil you can actually sweep the center of the coil over small foil while raising, and it will disappear as I described in earlier post. Heel technique not required. Medium/large foil/aluminum will not disappear abruptly. Only the tiny stuff. Just practice these techniques at home on a table to get the hang of it. That way you don't have to waste alot of precious field time to learn the basics of this.

 

[Texashunter61]

Thank you TerraDigger, I will practice these techniques in a backyard test garden. I have various iron test samples to use.

 

[TerraDigger]

Texas, One more thing about the heel technique. Many times instead of the iron/non-ferrous target audio breaking up/wildly varying ID numbers occuring, the following happens. The detector will go blank, in both the audio signal & ID. Zero sound and the ID number will sit on the last number it registered and not move, even while the coil heel edge is being swept back & forth.


I wish FMall would stop only giving a user about 10 minutes to edit a post before it becomes permanent...Hint, Hint to moderator