Is higher always better, if it's stable?

[OregonMike]

Hi,

Just wondering...since White's worked on my detector it's remarkably stable at high Rx Gain numbers. For example, I can run Hi-Pro at 14. My question is, should I?

Is there any reason or advantage to using lower gains when higher ones are available?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Neil in West Jersey]

I say yes, but some will argue with me about this point! I have tested many settings and having the RX at 12 will always give me much more depth than at 8 or 9. I run RX 10-12, AM 72-75 and Disc at 90-93.

 

[Larry (IL)]

If you want the depth, yes, run the RX as high as stability will let you. BUT, sometimes you might not want extra depth as in looking for surface jewelry.

 

[Rob (IL)]

I still believe Disc sensitivity is more important for depth, than RX.

 

[oneon]

Larry are you saying that if he maxed out the RX and the detector was stable he would miss surface jewelry? I know most Jewelry is on the top but on the beach after it's cut after a storm I find a day or 2 after the storm ( a few tides ) The beach gets sanded in and it's then I have found some gold or rings in general to 8 inches.

 

[Larry (IL)]

No, that is not what I meant, it should still find surface targets with high RX just fine. If I am looking for a lost ring for someone and I know the ring is on or near the surface, I turn down the RX to eliminate the deep targets and deep trash to concentrate on the target I'm looking for is what I meant to say.

 

[Monte]

Just wondering...since White's worked on my detector it's remarkably stable at high Rx Gain numbers. For example, I can run Hi-Pro at 14.

Mike, glad to hear they got that issue taken care of. White's is tops in customer service!

My question is, should I?

Is there any reason or advantage to using lower gains when higher ones are available?

I often base my final decision for Sensitivity and RX Gain settings on the model in hand, the existing ground and area EMI conditions, and just how deep I might realistically need or want to detect.

I really enjoy my VX3, and I especially enjoyed the XLT's that it replaced. With both the XLT and the VX3, I use the same basic approach to set-up as I do on my #1 favorite manual control analog White's, the XL Pro. How do they compare? Simple.

The XL Pro's primary Sensitivity level was set at maximum internally by design, slightly higher than the former big guy, the 6000 Di Pro SL. So with the XL Pro I only need to adjust the Signal Balance which is the same function, but different name, as Pre-Amp Gain on the XLT or RX Gain on the Spectra series. On the XL Pro, I almost always set it just as high as possible, just slightly stable but close to 'the fringe" of noisy operation.

With the XLT I first set the the AC (motion Disc.) Sensitivity as high as tolerable (usually '75') first, then I increase the Pre-Amp Gain as high as possible, just like the Signal Balance on the XL Pro, to be close to, but just a touch below the point of instability. This provides me with better depth, cleaner and louder target responses from the deeper and/or smaller targets, and also lets me reduce the required sweep speed.

The XL Pro is a great analog detector, and the XLT is a really good 'blend' of analog and digital design. Then, we have the Spectra series.

These very digital designed models work a little differently in many ways, and it took me a while to adapt to the differences in response and sweep speed and mastering what it takes to enjoy them. I'm getting there, and really like my VX3, but set-up is similar. I make sure I adjust the Disc. Sensitivity first to be reasonably high w/o noise and chatter. If everything is nice and stable then I can hunt away, with the next 'Sensitivity' setting being the RX Gain. I run it up, a little at a time, just to the point where the detector behaves itself and isn't a chatter box. That provides me with depth and performance.

So the question, is there a good reason to use a lower RX Gain setting than a higher one? Yes, for some people and some applications.

Maybe if the site only has shallower targets and depth isn't necessary.

Perhaps if the ground is really nasty (and as you know, we can run into that at times here in Oregon), then we might do a little better with a little reduction.

Also, if a site is heavily littered with a lot of closely-spaced targets. More often than not I grab my MXT Pro w/6

 

[13rannon]

No, higher is not always better. For detecting deep relics you will want to run your RX up only as high as you can keeping a nice smooth threshold.

Threshold is how you are going to hear those deep targets.

Deep targets meaning as in 8" + on a button size target.

Listen for anything that breaks the threshold while keeping a nice consistent target sound faint or not so faint what you want is consistancy on the sound of the target. Nevermind the VDI and the graphs. When you're going for extreme depth it's all threshold all day.

Running a high RX with an eratic threshold is going to waste battery life, increase the chance for electrical interference, and increase false signaling. There's a better chance you'll go home with a headache rather than treasure running a noisy threshold.

Good ground balancing and a smooth threshold is how the pros go deep.

Also, do not overlook the frequency offset while trying to gain a smooth threshold. When EMI is a factor, frequency offset is an invaluable tool for achieving threshold consistency.

Good Luck

 

[Rob (IL)]

He said it was extremely stable at high RX, to me that means he had a smooth threshold.

 

[Boonyman]

I have to agree with Rob on this, Disc Sens is where the depth is at and along with that a stable higher Rx will help you get a little bit more depth.

 

[13rannon]

Just out of curiosity, where are you hunting that RX 14 gives a smooth theshold and what coil are you using?

 

[Rob (IL)]

Just out of curiosity, where are you hunting that RX 14 does not give a smooth threshold and what coil are you using?

I live in Illinois.

I hunt RX10 - Rx13 using my D2 or Whites 10x12 SEF most of the time and have no trouble maintaining a stable threshold. Also on Gulf beaches I can run RX15 no trouble if I chose. If hunting in an area that produces clad or jewelry I can run lower because maximum depth is not an necessity. The reason I don't run max allowable RX is explained below.

I understand how RX works.The rule of thumb is that, to gain another inch of depth the gain must be doubled. This means that increasing the gain from 14 to 15 will not improve depth much at all whereas increasing the gain from 2 to 4 should gain another inch. So 4 to 8 gains another inch and 8 to 16, oops there is no 16, another inch. So don't get crazy on setting the RX at the upper levels because it provides diminishing rewards. In some cases the added noise will actually negate the increase. So in my opinion, higher RX and more noise and signal loss would be about the same as lower RX with less signal loss. If you are hunting in a clean area with only deep targets, then run the gain just below the overload point for max depth. But if there are a lot of shallow targets, then this will result in a lot of audio overload signals which might be annoying. "The bottom line is, with any coil, run the gain as high as you can for stable operation, just as you'd do with any detector." Carl at Whites"

I noticed your last post was 2 years ago. If you didn't upgrade to the V3i from the V3 your unit will not be as stable as mine.

 

[13rannon]

I mostly post on another forum for various reasons.

I hunt with D2, 6x10, and 4x6 all whites all V rated coils.

I hunt with a V3 and a V3i. I have a V3 and my friend has a V3i. We both hunt the same ground and hear the same things. The V3 to V3i update had nothing to do with fixing any problems the V3 had or was experiencing. That's why the update was not covered under warranty and cost an extra 100 dollars.

If the update was a fix for threshold instability it would have been covered under manufactures warranty per definition.

I'm calling BS on your statement " where are you hunting that RX 14 does not give you smooth threshold" and won't waste my time responding to it.

"The bottom line is, with any coil, run the gain as high as you can for stable operation, just as you'd do with any detector." Carl at Whites"

That pretty much sums up what I was saying then doesn't it?

I'm not going to argue with you.

 

[Rob (IL)]

I bow to your expertise and higher knowledge and will not argue with you.You made your feeling known on the upgrade 2 years ago. I wish you the best of luck on your other forum.

Your attitude and use of the word BS is not needed on this forum nor is your inference that there is something wrong with Findmall.

George is handing out the same BS.
http://forums.whiteselectronics.com/showthread.php?45967-V3i_%284%29-Fox-s-V3i-Programs