Is there ever a time it makes sense to adjust the Disc and Notch off Zero

[Bryannagirl]

Seems everyone runs zero notch and zero disc. Have not moved mine out of zero once. Just wondering if there are any times or places adjusting those two knobs would make sense. If yes when and how much.

Bryanna

 

[Rick(ND)]

For me I have run the disc up to about the 10 O'clock position to get rid of some of the small alum foil, now notch I have used in area where there is a Lot of pulltabs and get tired of listening to them as I only reject the ones that are reading around 166-170 area because of the tone is so close to a good target. I find for me I just turn it up all the way and those pulltabs will either null out or give a broken signal. I have used both of the disc and notch out of minn but not often.

Rick

 

[deepdiger60]

Iam pretty sure i only used notch n disc once and that was to try it durning a hunt and it works i guess if someone wanted to cherry pick out a good target those 2 knobs could come in useful , to notch out pull tabs you have a good chance of missing gold !!! on a beach so far i have not found any use for either knob . Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

For discrimination I never raise it above zero. I prefer hearing it all on my machines. But, it could be useful for say a site with tons of bits of can slaw or foil that is just distracting the heck out of you. If it's a distraction beyond belief then turn it up if you have to. Also, say a site is super bad with hot rocks and small bits of iron junk or something that is making the machine noisey and unstable to the point of pulling your hair out. Turn it up enough to quiet things down. I never have had to do that on the GT, even in the worst of grounds. If the site is beyond belief in terms of bad soil/hot rocks and such to where manual sensitivity is real fussy I'll just throw it into Auto and it's smooth sailing. Rarely had to do that though. Usually on old paths with stones and rocks that can cause a lot of fasling. That's when I'll use Auto, or if the site is so loaded with iron or fast changing ground I feel Auto acts sort of like ground tracking and *might* unmask coins a static manual setting might be too hot or cold for from one spot to the other. More tests are in order on that, as I feel in heavy iron Auto *might* reset the machine faster and give slightly better unmasking ability. Just a suspicion right now though on that.

But, I've read of some guys with discrimination who will crank it all the way up on the Sovereign in super heavy trash and they call it "Silver Mode", in which you are only going to hear probably clads and silvers in that HEAVY junk. That might be useful at say a house demolition or at the grass strip next to a parking lot in a park where it's just loaded with total junk. Same deal right up against picnic tables and BarBQ pitts. I've only used this "silver mode" a few times as it has to be super super bad for me to need it, as I am used to hearing it all using no discrimination on all my machines over the years. It can help in a pinch where you are rushed for time and the site is just a junk yard of signals.

By the way, anybody remember how high discrimination will kill if you crank it all the way up? Is it up to just below copper penny or perhaps just below zinc penny?

As for the notch, I use that more (but still rarely) than I do discrimination. If you read my "Splitting Hairs On Rings" thread we found that by raising the notch just high enough to where it barely knocks out an undug 165 tab #, we would be blocking out 84% of all known round and square tabs and still recover the vast majority of rings. I admit I haven't used it that much even with all the research we put into the project, scanning over 100 randomly found rings (water hunter with Excal digging all signals above iron), along with a random test pull of round and square tabs also found that random way with no "selective" digging. Some people will test a pool of rings and tabs and think they've got good numbers to go by. Problem is they probably only dug certain zones more when finding them or by better sound. That biases the test pool. Most rings are NOT in the tab range or the nickle range. Those two combined do not even equal the amount of rings in the foil range. In fact, from memory fully about half of all rings are in the foil range (from right above iron to right below nickle), compared to all other rings from nickle, to tab, all the way up to the highest coin signal.

If I'm hunting a trashy old park and looking for rings but the place is a sea of tabs I'll do the notch thing. Raise it to just kill a 165 tab number when you find it. I measured my notch and it's about 12.5 digits wide. 84% of all tabs are killed raised just high enough to kill 165 (you have to just tweak it barely up to kill that as you sweep over it). Then, if the site has a bunch of pesky tabs just below or higher than the notch window you can tweak it a hair lower or higher to compensate.

Also, an interesting thing...I've found when I use the notch to kill tabs my nickle finds jump through the roof. Nickles are well above the tab range, so then I'll notice the nickle sounds more by not hearing the constant sound of billons of tabs. Even without the notch, though, the nickle sound on a Sovereign is pretty distinct, so I still kill nickles with this machine more so than any other I've owned even if I'm not using the notch. Sometimes when old coin hunting if the tabs are numerous and deep I'll use the notch just to have peace of mind and listen for those slight whisper deep coin signals. Still, rarely do I do that. On days when you've got a headache and just can't stand all the sounds the notch can be useful though.

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Bryanna.zero notch and discrimination for me,I like to see whats in the ground.The Sovereign nulls enough already,I have pulled a lot of silver off of blended targets that would have probably been missed. Good Post.Thanks Ron

 

[jamesinwesttexas]

I've used "silver mode" a few times in heavy trash with disc turned all the way up. Can't remember for sure, but seems like I was still getting some zinc pennies and if so it should be possible to still get a big gold target. Yes, I just air tested a zinc penny with my GT in auto sens, disc turned all the way up, iron mask on, and can hear it loud and clear from 6 to 8 inches. I'd like to know if this is the case on your GT. Good luck.

 

[Critterhunter]

James, I remember digging through some old threads on here from years ago and some guys were pretty excited about using "silver mode". I remember a few saying that were pulling silvers out of super trashy sites that just weren't huntable with any machine any other way. Of course that's a last resort type of thing where the conditions are just out of control in terms of HEAVY trash contamination at like a dump site or a house tear down or something. It should never be used unless it's impossible any other way because with increased discrimination comes the risk of target masking of a coin next to junk or the possibility of missing a deep coin because it might only read further down the scale until you get right over it and wiggle. Always pay attention to those deeper "junk" hits and get right over them and wiggle. A deep coin might sound like total junk until you do that. Same with masked coins.

I do remember trying this "silver mode" once at a grass strip next to a parking lot in a trashy park. As trashy as that park was, that strip of grass next to the parking lot was just incredible with the amount of trash you'd hear with each sweep. I was getting ready to leave anyway and my heart wasn't into hearing all that trash so I cranked discrimination all the way up and did pop a bunch of clads along with some old copper memorials that I was surprised hadn't been dug before by people because they weren't all that deep and could easily have been wheats or even a silver coin on some machines.

 

[jamesinwesttexas]

Thanks for the reply Critter, and I have to agree that there are times where the trash is so heavy and the likelihood of finding a small gold target so remote that it only makes sense to crank up the disc and at least try to pick out some good high conductors. You can usually come back later and dig it all if you want to spend the time or concentrate your efforts where a small gold target is likely to be. I am sort of surprised that the Sov will not disc as high as a zinc coin. Even so, if there happened to be a half ounce gold coin or fat gold ring, you would still hear it with disc all the way up. I suppose if you did not want to hear the zinc penny range you could further use the notch to kill it. The real sacrifice I suppose would be depth.

 

[Rick(ND)]

With the disc maxed out you will not reject the zinc penny, but that is where many older wheats and IH pennies read too, so the loud surface one I ignore while the deeper ones I will dig. Now the notch will not disc them out either at max for the same reason and when it is set at max it seem to not disc out anything over 170 on the meter..
There is a time and place to use high disc and notch that why it has them, but for most hunting no notch or disc works the best.

 

[johnmusk]

I always discriminate out foil, very few rings fall that low I have no idea why somebody would want to dig a million gum wrappers.

 

[Critterhunter]

John, in reality most gold rings read in the foil range. From memory (dig up the splitting hairs on rings thread) about 50% of the rings we tested read in the foil range. The smallest started at around 74 or 76 or so on the VDI, and that's right at the bottom of the foil range, and as said close to 50% of the over 100 random rings we tested range from there to up to just at the bottom of the nickle range (136 or 138 or so from memory is the way we charted that zone). Most of the odd small bits of foil can be avoided by paying careful attention to the audio. If they sound fuzzy, sick, warbly, and such then odds are it's foil due to the uneven surface and odd shape of foil. Most rings that read well down into the foil range will sound soft, round, smooth, warm, and so on. Also, watch the VDI. If it keeps changing by 3 digits or more from different angles chances are it's odd shaped trash. 1 or 2 digits no matter which way you sweep is probably something round like a ring. Of course these aren't hard and fast rules, just general ideas for being picky.

 

[Rick(ND)]

This is from before you were around on the Sovereign forums and by people that actually hunt as we were asking if anyone has dug a gold ring lower than 100 on the 180 meter and the lowest reading anyone had dug one was over 100 and think the lowest was 105.
Now those that did air test seen some lower, but out of the ground they do read lower than those in the ground. One of my best gold rings I found read 141 while in the ground, but when I got it out it read 110, so we find that in the ground on actual targets seem to read higher than those on top of the ground or air test. This is why some of us run a slight disc to get rid of some of the small alum foil.

 

[Bryannagirl]

So discrimination cuts depth - even more reason not to use it. I heard that before for other detectors and for some reason I could never understand why. Seems as long as a target is not disc out it should read just as deep as if there is no Disc at all - again it seems that way but I have read too many times that is not true - so I guess i need to assume that it is true. Again a good reason to leave Disc and Notch at Zero !

Bryanna

Thanks for the reply Critter, and I have to agree that there are times where the trash is so heavy and the likelihood of finding a small gold target so remote that it only makes sense to crank up the disc and at least try to pick out some good high conductors. You can usually come back later and dig it all if you want to spend the time or concentrate your efforts where a small gold target is likely to be. I am sort of surprised that the Sov will not disc as high as a zinc coin. Even so, if there happened to be a half ounce gold coin or fat gold ring, you would still hear it with disc all the way up. I suppose if you did not want to hear the zinc penny range you could further use the notch to kill it. The real sacrifice I suppose would be depth.

 

[Rick(ND)]

Now is the time to get others to jump in that have actually found a gold ring that has been in the ground for a while and the readings it gave, then when they had it out of the ground what did it read. Several we have found around here we have notice a higher reading in then ground than when out of the ground. My wedding ring reads as tinfoil at 110, so I know some do read low in the tinfoil range, but over all most you will see in the nickle range.
On coins we don't notice this as it is the same, just gold rings in the ground seem to read lower out of the ground by quite a few numbers, Maybe beach may be different, but on land hunting with some actual experience you may see this, so if you ever get out to hunt and find a real gold ring and remember what it read on the meter then check it again when it is on top of the ground and see what you get.

 

[RichW]

I used a CZ-20 and a CZ-6A for years before switching to Minelab. Most of the rings I dug were in the foil range. (just below nickel) Sometimes the readings would bounce between foil and nickel on the CZ but would read foil more often than nickel. I dug a few rings that gave me solid nickel readings but not many. The 2nd largest category of rings recovered all fell somewhere in the pull tab range. Some of the larger mens rings I recovered fell into the zinc penny range. I dug 1 or 2 clunkers that max out on discrimination.

 

[Ism]

I tried the disc all the way up in my coin test bed and there was no serious loss of depth. Very minor compared to single frequency machines.

So discrimination cuts depth - even more reason not to use it. I heard that before for other detectors and for some reason I could never understand why. Seems as long as a target is not disc out it should read just as deep as if there is no Disc at all - again it seems that way but I have read too many times that is not true - so I guess i need to assume that it is true. Again a good reason to leave Disc and Notch at Zero !

Bryanna

Thanks for the reply Critter, and I have to agree that there are times where the trash is so heavy and the likelihood of finding a small gold target so remote that it only makes sense to crank up the disc and at least try to pick out some good high conductors. You can usually come back later and dig it all if you want to spend the time or concentrate your efforts where a small gold target is likely to be. I am sort of surprised that the Sov will not disc as high as a zinc coin. Even so, if there happened to be a half ounce gold coin or fat gold ring, you would still hear it with disc all the way up. I suppose if you did not want to hear the zinc penny range you could further use the notch to kill it. The real sacrifice I suppose would be depth.

 

[johnmusk]

You can set discrimination at 10:00 and get rid of 100% of the foil while keeping 90% of the rings...sounds like a good deal to me. 10:00 is far below where nickles fall at 2:00.