It's over for detecting in Pittsburgh Pa:rant:

[pghmole]

So it appears Allegheny county Pa hired park Rangers to take over the city and county parks...they have taken the applications for permits to detect off the website and are kicking detctorists out of the parks some have hunted for 35 plus years unmolested,I have seen the turf damage and garbage left by unethical detctorists and that is at least partially to blame,some TV shows and a few you-tubers that some of you like also are contributing to the issue and I'm not suprised by the recent ban on our hobby that is occurring all over and in my backyard ....sad to say this but I told ya so! I'm going to do my best to fight this locally. ....Mole

 

[BigTony]

Mole, is that their final answer? Just because they took the permit off of the web site? Maybe they are late in putting it up because that department had a staff cut.

In this downtime where did they find time to hire park rangers? Are these folks on the public doll and have to work somewhere, i.e. welfare?

They do that in NY with prk rangers. Most new ones ride ATV's and are on public assistance and that is the type of job they get from the city.

 

[pghmole]

3 people I know of have been ejected in the last week including a permit holder and the Rangers told at least two of them there will be no digging in any way shape or form anymore in the parks ,I'm guessing that they are going to invalidate the permits that permit holders have,yea they are public employees on the county payroll,we will be in contact with the parks department Monday and probably the mayor of Pittsburgh

 

[airscapes]

Good to know, will have to cross PB off the list of placed to move to after the MiL dies.. Same, think it was near the top of the list to visit and check out!

 

[JimmyCT]

Sorry to hear about this. Seems to becoming more common as the days, weeks, months, and years go by. "I bet they will hinge it" on the one I have in bold. Maybe a tree hugger saw someone cutting into the grass and let out a blood curdling scream.... I hope you can resolve this with the Parks Director. Best of luck.

For the record, my town has basically the same language as below and if they wanted, they could slam the brakes on metal detecting anytime they choose.


Park Rules
Parks are open to the public every day of the year from 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m., unless otherwise posted.

Vehicles in the parks are restricted to roads. The speed limit is 25 mph, unless otherwise posted.

Ride bicycles on a paved vehicular road, or path designated for that purpose. A bicyclist is permitted to wheel or push a bicycle by hand over any grassy area or wooded trail or on any paved area reserved for pedestrian use.

Swimming, bathing and wading may take place only in places provided for these activities.

Dogs and other pets must be on a leash and under the control of the owner. No pets are allowed on playgrounds or courts at any time.

Place trash in trash receptacles only. If trash receptacles are not provided, take your refuse with you. Never dump or deposit trash on any park lands or in park waters.
Cooperate in keeping the restrooms and washrooms in a neat and sanitary condition.

Do not set fires except in designated cooking areas. Picnickers must completely extinguish all fires before leaving the park. Never throw lighted matches, burning cigarettes or other flammable material in any park area.

Alcoholic beverages are prohibited in the parks, except by special permission of the Director.

Never damage, pollute, disfigure or remove any natural resource, structures or equipment in the parks. Do not hunt, kill, molest, frighten or tease any animals, reptiles or birds in the park.

Bottles, containers or other items made of glass are prohibited from the park.

Motorized model airplanes are not allowed in the parks.

No soliciting, vending, advertising or sign posting is allowed in the parks, except by special permission of the Director.

 

[Grilled Scallops]

I fear the same sort of fate happening to my area. Though, it is unlikely because there are so many bigger issues going on. Regardless, I tread super light. I get in and get out quietly when I detect. I don't yell or make noise, I try to be a shadow. I'm super, super nice to people and when they ask me what I'm looking for I usually say something like "it's mostly trash, I get a lot of things little kids could cut their feet on. Sometimes I get something good but really I'm mostly cleaning the place and making it safer." I appeal to their emotions and make them realize I'm doing them a favor. I've only been questioned twice, once was by a guy with no authority whatsoever but I KNEW that if he complained to someone higher up that'd be the start of the end, so I forced a smile on my face and left, especially since it was clear I could just come back another day when he wasn't around. Another time was by an old lady, she was concerned that little kids would trip on my holes, even though I was digging perfect plugs and stamping each one down firmly. I convinced her that there's no danger of a plug that's been properly put back and that all the trash I would remove would make it safer for the kids. She left me alone. I haven't been back to that spot, because I know she's going to talk to her neighbors about it, who will talk to their neighbors. It's a tight community. I will lie low and go back to that spot in a few months, maybe. In the meantime, there's plenty more dirt out there.

 

[jarrow]

Sorry to hear about this. Seems to becoming more common as the days, weeks, months, and years go by. "I bet they will hinge it" on the one I have in bold. Maybe a tree hugger saw someone cutting into the grass and let out a blood curdling scream.... I hope you can resolve this with the Parks Director. Best of luck.

For the record, my town has basically the same language as below and if they wanted, they could slam the brakes on metal detecting anytime they choose.


Park Rules
Parks are open to the public every day of the year from 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m., unless otherwise posted.

Vehicles in the parks are restricted to roads. The speed limit is 25 mph, unless otherwise posted.

Ride bicycles on a paved vehicular road, or path designated for that purpose. A bicyclist is permitted to wheel or push a bicycle by hand over any grassy area or wooded trail or on any paved area reserved for pedestrian use.

Swimming, bathing and wading may take place only in places provided for these activities.

Dogs and other pets must be on a leash and under the control of the owner. No pets are allowed on playgrounds or courts at any time.

Place trash in trash receptacles only. If trash receptacles are not provided, take your refuse with you. Never dump or deposit trash on any park lands or in park waters.
Cooperate in keeping the restrooms and washrooms in a neat and sanitary condition.

Do not set fires except in designated cooking areas. Picnickers must completely extinguish all fires before leaving the park. Never throw lighted matches, burning cigarettes or other flammable material in any park area.

Alcoholic beverages are prohibited in the parks, except by special permission of the Director.

Never damage, pollute, disfigure or remove any natural resource, structures or equipment in the parks. Do not hunt, kill, molest, frighten or tease any animals, reptiles or birds in the park.

Bottles, containers or other items made of glass are prohibited from the park.

Motorized model airplanes are not allowed in the parks.

No soliciting, vending, advertising or sign posting is allowed in the parks, except by special permission of the Director.

Good luck with these rules most people are PIGS.

 

[slingshot]

What irks me is that no one does anything about destruction of the bathrooms sprinklers, or lighting!

 

[knack4iron]

Well I've been on the fence for a while on this ever since that "boom baby" show. Been at it for 30 years and started when nobody hardly knew what a MD'ing was or relic hunting. And you can say its unethical hunters or what ever. But it boils down to more people are hunting and buying MD's today than ever. And whats the blame for that? TV shows. Sure they push good hunting ethics but it still comes down to where the rubber meets the road. Alot more people seeing these shows that are advertisements for detector co's. The more that hunt, the more of those not caring if they leave holes. And as always now in this country in anything, doesn't matter if 100 diggers are good, it only takes 1 to screw the pooch. All will suffer because of 1. And those 1's have grown exponentially due to allure of hitting the big dollars.

 

[wvrick]

Its happening a lot of places that used to be open. Here is WV the state parks used to be open but now are closed. Some always had signs saying no metal detectors like Summersville lake, but I checked a local lake and park - Beach Fork SP and its not allowed. Sad we are losing more everyday.

 

[JimmyCT]

My point being is that most every town, city, county has "on the records" rules / regulations very close to what is mentioned in the list of rules I copied from the Pittsburg, PA city website. I live in CT and the rules / regulations are extremely similar. This way, should it ever come down to having to boot someone, it is already on the "books" and police can carry out their duties. The ironic thing is many of the other rules mentioned people carry out but are usually never caught. Why? When someone takes the liberty of breaking one of the other rules, they carry it out and leave or creating havoc after hours while it is dark to where most people are sleeping all snuggly in their beds. We as detectorists are extremely visible in the public's eye. Again, we are in areas of the park for a good amount of time and that is why we are "targeted". Pun intended, I suppose I can say we are slow moving targets looking for targets.






Good luck with these rules most people are PIGS.

 

[goodmore]

No matter what you do or think those careless detectorists are only part of the problem. There is a change in attitude towards hunting public property. I gave up hunting public lands years ago because you always have that one person that likes to butt in and pretend it is their business. I had people call the police on me just for having a detector. I wasn't breaking any laws or digging any unsightly holes. I was just enjoying the hobby. And the cops always say the same thing. Well you should just move along. If Rangers take over forget about it. Private land is the only dirt digging I do. And those busy bodies that think they are the protectors of everything sacred can go screw themselves.

Schools? I would never detect a school with all the security involved. It isn't worth it. I would rather not hunt at all.

 

[RichW]

Totally agree. The world is full of control freaks.

 

[BigTony]

Good luck Mole......hopefully they will see you and listen to your concerns.

Don't use force or show anger....be confident you are a tax payer too

 

[pghmole]

@bigtony,no worries,no anger needed,I'll leave it up to my attorney if I don't get anywhere being nice

 

[sprchng]

Well I've been on the fence for a while on this ever since that "boom baby" show. Been at it for 30 years and started when nobody hardly knew what a MD'ing was or relic hunting. And you can say its unethical hunters or what ever. But it boils down to more people are hunting and buying MD's today than ever. And whats the blame for that? TV shows. Sure they push good hunting ethics but it still comes down to where the rubber meets the road. Alot more people seeing these shows that are advertisements for detector co's. The more that hunt, the more of those not caring if they leave holes. And as always now in this country in anything, doesn't matter if 100 diggers are good, it only takes 1 to screw the pooch. All will suffer because of 1. And those 1's have grown exponentially due to allure of hitting the big dollars.

This post begins to tap the source of the problem that causes this topic to pop up continuously on detecting forums , but stops short of pointing out the biggest contributor of the hobby's dilemma and that is the forums themselves and the thousands of dunderheads who continue to post picture after picture and inane video after video , showing the stuff they find and inspiring more and more callous and ignorant people to pick up the hobby. The big warehouse guys along with the big manufacturers are sowing the seeds of their own demise by producing shows and promoting detectorists who create( and I use that term loosely) videos of every Mercury dime or pile of clad they find in the neighborhood schoolyard. Videos and forums that EDUCATE are one thing but the drivel that passes for videos on today's forums do nothing but soothe the egos of the filmers and do nothing to help the hobby.

If you are creating these videos and posting these photos of every silver dime or piece of jewelry you find , you are part of the problem by encouraging more into a hobby that already has limited venues.

THE IRONY (and hypocrisy) IS STAGGERING!!!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

So they take the "permit" off the website, ok, so what? Since when does an activity need a "permit" for one-to-be-able to do something ? I bet they don't have a "permit" to fly frisbees, do they? Yet you can probably see persons fly frisbees, right ? Is there a specific prohibition of md'ing on the city website ? If not, then what are we talking about ? I see no "permits" on my city website either for our parks, yet I can hunt our city parks to my heart's content .

And I see that you say they have now kicked out 3 md'rs, eh ? I bet all those 3 md'rs have one thing in common: They were probably out-in-the-open begging for attention. I too can think of parks that ........ if I went and paraded myself in broad daylight at high-noon in front of bored gardeners or waltzed over beach-blankets in front of the ranger station, that I too could get told "scram". Why oh why can't you just go at night then ? Or any other such time so as not to swat a hornet's nest ?

And the fact of that you/they were told that it was that they "don't allow digging", well gee, I got news for you: There's not a single park in the entire USA that would tell you "sure, go ahead and dig in the park!". EVERY park has verbage that dis-allows "deface", "alter", "disturb", or "dig" or something to that effect. Yet as you know, detecting is common place, so long as you're not a lightening rod for scrutiny. The *normal* intent of such verbage is the end result . Ie.: disturb versus disturbED. Alter versus alterED, and so forth. But sure: If you asked enough bored desk bound bureaucrats "Can I dig?" , what do you THINK they will say ??

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Your story is ALL TOO COMMON for places/cities that ever dreamed up "permits" for md'ing. Even though it sounds SEEOOOO inviting to have "permits" to md, it always comes back to bite us/you in the b#tt. The notion of "permits" seems to conjur up the ability to detect nilly-willy anywhere you want, eh ? In fact, md'rs tend to "wax romantic" at the thought of "permits" to md. Some have even gone to their city council's suggesting this idea, thinking that an express allowance is a great thing.

But a bunch of places that used to have them, JUST LIKE IN YOUR CASE, then one day, out-of-the-blue, revoke them. All of the sudden, it's disallowed one day, md'rs are booted, and a "BOL" is issued to the rank & file to boot md'rs.

Here's the psychology of how this works: The mere fact that a city ever issued a "permit to md", means that it will, forevermore thereafter, be something that is perpetually "on their radar" as something that they "permit". Eg.: something that comes up for annual review. And a token nuisance $$ income that has to be on the books as a form of income (petty silly meager, that doesn't even pay for the paperwork that it involves). And then SURE AS HECK one day, some future city people , when reviewing the subject, are asking themselves "Gee, do we really want all these yahoos out in the park digging things up?" And then BAM it's now dis-continued.

Thus permits are never a good thing. Despite how the notion "rolls off the tongue" and sounds seeoooo inviting, yet your story is all-too-familiar.

Therefore it's MUCH BETTER that the city code/laws/rules simply be silent on the subject. Neither expressly allowed (aka "permits"), Nor expressly dis-allowed (a rule that said "no md'ing). Better that it's simply silent on the subject. And then the best way to KEEP it that way, is to stay off their radar, in the first place. Some persons may call that "sneaking around" that they can't parade themselves in front of busy-body gardeners. Ok, fine then: SNEAK AROUND. Kind of like nose-picking: while it may not be "illegal", but , sheesk, don't we all sort of use a little ... uh .... discretion in our timing ??

 

[HaroldILL.]

Well welcome to my world and it sucks as we lost 68,000 acres of forest preserves the last year or so. I made a post about this when it happened and most said I was pointen' fingers and gloom and doom. Well I see it is happening more and more and it will happen to all in a matter of time. The one's defending Detecting shows and newbees with shovels obviously haven't lost their close by bread and butter sites. When they do they will understand all about it. It will be a Federal Law in a couple years all public places are closed to detecting so you lucky guys who can still detect enjoy it while you can and pound those close by spots all you can Dude because it will happen to you too.

 

[Mega]

Over here in the UK,its very rare if ever that permission is granted to detect in parks etc,the local councils have always played the 'health and safety' trump card,of course if you mainly have access to parks and then they start declining detecting permits or what ever they use then that is course bad news.