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Just read Andy's book and I gotta question...

From what I see the "strongest" signal gets reported, not sure Minelab tweaked to higher conductivity stuff. If you are swinging over a ton of iron a there are times that a shallower coin will be heard instead of all the iron under your coil; which will either be a low tone in open ferrous or a null if you have discrimination. It also depends on how the coil is oriented to all the targets in the ground, certainly not a 100% deal.

This is why many say discrimination kills depth. Not neccessarily, but if you are in a real trashy environment only the signals shallow/strong/not influenced by other adjancent signals that ID into a nondiscriminated area will break the null. In open screen mode you are more likely to get some kind of tone indication on deeper stuff that something is there worth further checking out.
 
And I hear they are bringing out a small DD coil. I've dug more .22 shorts and slugs with my F-75 than I can believe. I does seem to do well on small lower conductivity items. I'm not sure it the minelabs don't see them are they just ID somewhere out in the "NO DIG" zone.

I think the F-75 is a good choice for sites where you would dig anything above iron because the TID is just not that accurate. Can't bounce on a 1 axis display.

Chris
 
I'm glad you guys are sharing your ideas on how you hunt. It gives the rest of us ideas to try, that may not have occurred to us, and better perspectives on things.

Me, I'm a firm believer in using whatever works for you. If it works, hey, that's proof of concept. I'm not sure you there is a "perfect" way to hunt for every gound and site condition. If there was, and I knew of it, I'd use that.

Having said all this, I hope no one thinks Andy was bashing them I don't see him being that kind of a guy. I would also hope no one is bashing him, as he's very helpful on the forum and I think his books from what I have read of them have been very helpful to me. I think it would be great if we could all offer our own ideas without having to get all riled up. That would be a real tribute to all of us.
 
This is the great thing about these forums Derrelld. We all learn from each other . I wasnt arguing, I was just telling you my interpretation of the null. I hope I am wrong ..and will listen closer ..but since Im in AM most of the time now , not much nulling is happening. But trust me, I will try experimenting to see if I can hear what your hearing..Especially after you pulled that beautiful Large cent. Good luck D..keep up the good work!!
 
Got it. So in other words..there isnt a minimum amount of time a null occurs for before the next signal? Lets say in trash..Man its hard to explain on a keyboard with one hand..But I think i know what your saying
 
Hey Bill..wasnt intending to bash anyone..just posting an opinion..remember..I bought and read both books because I wanted to learn from others who share my interests in this great past time..., so again, just voicing my results I received using some of his suggestions in his books. I , personally, did not get the same results that were obtained by others using certain settings in his books. That could be due to my style hunting..user error..anything. Just didnt work for me, thats all. Im ALWAYS open to other people and theyre opinions and suggestions. If I werent, than THAT would be ignorant. ..just my 2 cents..HH:usaflag:
 
This stuff can be posted and discussed without all the negativity. It simply is not needed and you are 100% correct....it can drive many people away from the forum. That fact alone is a shame because there is a wealth of info available here for new users as well as experienced hunters.
I NEVER get involved in these bashing type of debate threads. I just feel there is no need for it...and absolutely no reason to be so negative about people or settings. Andy is a good guy and has provided countless hours over the last many years that have helped bring this hobby to what it is today. Good to hear from you Bill...and THANK YOU for the post.
 
Actually, you can still get signals in a null, and you are exactly right....you have to go slooooooooow. The difference is, in all metal is because the machine resets from target to target quicker, so you don't have to go as slow as with discrimination on. The machine ALWAYS latches on to the strongest signal is the key, so if the good target gives a stronger signal than the nulling target, you would still hear it, regardless. By going slow with discrimination on you are allowing the machine to finish the nulling signal, reset, and then report the good target. In all metal, that all just happens faster, so you can swing faster. If you reread my last response to you about using a larger coil in the trash, you will see what I am talking about. You can literally change the strength of different signals at different depths using larger and smaller coils, upping and lowering your sensitivity as well. If I were to try and use heavy discrimination in heavy trash, I would set my gain at 7 or less, FAST ON, and mostly use audio long to try and lengthen my good signals in hoping I would have a better chance to hear them through the nulls.:detecting:
 
It's not a "amount of time" thing, it's a ONLY the strongest signal comes through as long as the signal is still UNDER the coil thing. So if both the weak and strong signals were under the coil at the same time, you probably would only hear the strongest signal and never hear the weaker signal, or maybe just a small clip of it. In open screen, it becomes easier to hear, because the null seems to last longer in duration then the low iron grunt of all metal.

Lets make an example, a picture, so to speak:

You are in trash and you are passing over a iron nail and immediately a silver dime:

In discrimination, the machine is in "yes/no" (either/or) mode. If it sees a target discriminated out, it just nulls, completes that operation, and then reports the next signal. So the machine would report the null as it comes across the iron and continue as long as the iron signal was still stronger than the dime signal. If at any time they both were under the coil at the same time, the machine would only report the strongest of the two, either/or.

In all metal, it is in a "yes only" mode, so as the coil crosses the iron, it is reporting the iron grunt, as it leaves the iron only signal and starts to receive the dime and iron signal combined, you start to hear slightly higher tones mixed in, giving you a clue of the dimes existence, and as the signal is becoming more and more dime and less and less iron, you get more high tones. This happens quicker with less discrimination because the excepted signal (open screen) is allowing that mixed signal to be heard. Example iron mask 22 versus iron mask 28, you would start hearing the mixed signal in iron mask 28 first, in all metal open screen you would hear it even quicker yet.

One very important point is with discrimination barely on, like iron mask 22-28, you will hear more falsing, iron reporting high tones. In all metal, the high iron falsing goes away except for very deep, large iron. When I first switched to all metal, the number of nails I dug dropped by more than 80%. Today, I rarely ever dig a nail at all, unless I am using some iron mask. People who say that they dig more trash using all metal are probably not at a point where they clearly can tell the difference between a low percentage iffy and a definite keeper. It is the quality of the tone you hear. If it doesn't repeat in both directions, then you really have to listen closely, and if in one direction, it gives just too sweet of a sound then dig it. Over time, you will develop an absolute ear for this and become more and more correct in your guessing.
 
To all here,I meant no bashing at Andy, and i am new here, And for those who say i should read the books i have ,all i was trying to do is learn,,,,,,,,And as for Andy I apologized to him in PM,and here also .....your all right i should have used more tact as Mr, Andy did in his PM to ,,LOL..And as for posting ILL be finished after this one.
 
I think it has something to do with the specific frequency of the F75 as it does tend to pick up the brass/ nickel range better than my SE. My SE will do it, just not as well on very small brass/nickel. Silver however, no contest, SE seems to win easily.
 
This is a great topic and very usefull information. How many hours have we all spent with this machine getting to figure out how intricate it can be and how to best use it in our paticular spot and conditions. There is a lot of great input here and I personnaly appreciate the posts and information. Im also new to "the posting" but have been at the hunt scince 1984. Dont be detered in your posts by anyone. One thing for sure about this hobby,,,everyone thinks there an expert but for sure you can always pic up targets after them as well as after yourself. And once we get it figured out theyll make a new bigger better machine. Personnaly I love Legals Idea of Marketting the BAD. Big A... Digger 1000. LOL. good luck.
 
I'm sure about what Derrell said, if you don't think the detector will work, then don't, personally I have pulled some good coins when my detector wasn't working in null and will continue digging those targets that should'nt be there with a detector that doesn't work! Everyone has an opinion and do whats best for you. I find coins and deep coins so I will go where others don't because they read a book and it said not to.
 
I sure hope you give it a try, the part of the country has so many old relics and coins for you not to. This is a good thing about the forum lots of learning and hard work put here that benefits so many of us!!
 
your finds are great and your desire to learn is even better. You have a dig everything approach that many here would be driven crazy by!! Post and don't let anyone stop you, tact might help:rolleyes: but if this post has brought up questions, then that is a good thing. I've read a book or two of his and I don't agree with everything, but how many books do you read where everything isn't to your liking. Information is great when needed and set aside when there is no use. I even get upset when Pinky does something I don't like, so I stop watching Pinky Dinky Do until I get over her story, then after a few days I'm back watching!
 
I will defineately give it a try.. I cant wait to, once the weather gods cooperate and my hand heals a little more.I'll admit, its hard for me to change habits, but I will try anything if it works.This topic was a real eye opener for me
 
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