Just thinking outside the box....

[Daniel Tn]

Before the countdown revealed what little info we know....some folks were posting patent info and such they had dug up. It didn't dawn on me at the time but last night at work I started thinking about something I had heard earlier this year.

On January 16, 2012, there was a live internet radio broadcast of "Relic Roundup" that featured Whites Engineer, Carl Moreland. If you do a search you can find and listen to this broadcast in archive format.Carl Moreland Q&A Relic Roundup Now in this radio broadcast, there was a Q&A session discussing the future of Whites machines and such. He said something in it that I found very interesting. So what does this have to do with the CTX by Minelab.....Carl is engineer at Whites.....well it's what he said that lead to this outside the box thinking.

Carl was talking about the TDI pulse machine and the future of it. Basically they were trying to make the TDI better by making it able to tell iron from high conductive targets. In doing so...they basically found out the current chassis was a dead end for them and thus they started exploring other venues. One of them he talks about in this, was a hybrid technology.....it wasn't pulse induction and it wasn't VLF. He says that people often associate Pulse Induction as being solely Time Domain....when in actuality, Pulse Induction is just a FORM or branch of Time Domain. He said they were exploring other areas of Time Domain, that weren't exactly Pulse and weren't VLF and were pretty excited about some new things they had discovered. He goes on to say that they were further behind than where they wanted to be with it, but thus far were extremely happy with what they had found.

So my thoughts are along this line: If Whites was looking into this area....it's pretty reasonable to think that Minelab engineers were doing the same thing. I don't know how well guarded secrets are among the detector companies, but if its anything like the automotive industry....then the competitor lines usually know just as much about what the other companies are doing, as they do about their own stuff LOL. Who knows....maybe FBS-2 is part of the hybrid technology of the Time Domain area...neither pulse nor vlf... and having something to do with the odd name of this particular detector.

If THAT be the case...then that very well could be the future and unlike anything we've seen before. Imagine a detector totally unaffected by ground minerals of even the worse kind...and being able to ID things to a whole new level of accuracy. It might not go as deep as normal VLF machines in the benign ground...but where you would see the biggest impact would be sites with mineralization...and then being able to more accurately identify objects in the ground. What if it took on a totally different way of analyzing metal objects...and made it possible to accurately give separation between foil/aluminum and nickels and gold.....if done correctly...since we're speculating....what if it could do this 75+ percent of the time....be able to tell the difference between foil, tabs, and nickels and gold. If hunting a very trashy area you could go in there and do like you can with the eTrac for silver coins.....just cherry pick them with stunning accuracy....what if this new technology could do it on that level, with gold and foil/tabs? You could still always go in and dig everything....but for those just wanting to cherry pick....if you only went in and dug 3 signals and all 3 of them were gold jewelry....well now you'd be getting some place to make you smile, right? Gold being above $1,500 an ounce and holding steady....going out every weekend and hitting a bunch of spots and digging only the signals that ID as gold....and every one of them be gold...imagine how many spots you could hit and you'd be on your way to paying for it quick.

Then you've got the benefit of waterproofing to 10 feet. So you can do some good chest deep wading with a scoop and spend less down time scooping up pennies and junk...and more time on what is gold and silver. Hmm.

I'm not saying this machine is this new technology....none of us know and wont know til a few more days. But it will give you something to think about. Go listen to Carl's session and listen to what Whites was exploring and then think to the Minelab patents. Could have been a race to see who got one out first. I guarantee two or three of the first people in line to buy one of these things, will be the engineers of the competitor companies They'll have to see what makes it do what it does and then compare notes.

One thing I will say....it's about the weight. Thus far it's just been rumors about what it weighs and such. All I've seen thus far is a picture and a ton of rumors/speculation. But another thing to throw in the mix here....is that it's not so much as how much it weighs....but how balanced it is. Take the GPX machines for example. They outweigh most everything on the market....when you include the battery pack I guess they do outweigh everything currently on the market. Yet they are extremely balanced and I've hunted with mine for 12 hrs a day while only breaking to eat a quick sandwich lunch and then back at it again, for 3 consecutive days. The only time I wasn't swinging it was when I was digging targets. BALANCE is more important than overall weight. The eTrac and F75 are very close to one another in overall weight...but the balance is totally different and the F75 feels light as a feather. If this new Minelab IS actually 5 pounds like the rumors say....then it would all boil down to balance. If that's a big new generation lithium-polymer (LIPO) battery under the arm cuff....then I'm going to say the machine will probably be very well balanced like the GPX's are.

 

[Blank Planet]

Daniel Tn i like your thinking in their video they are in a stream looking for lost gold we all know the etrac is not going to do that, the key pad has a ground balance pad etrac doesn't have that we all know FBS does not need to ground balance, it has a GPX style "X" the control box is rather large like a pulse machine the battery is big to power pulse type machine. park hunters don't need GPS for the most part gold nugget hunters do, they made a really big deal over this machine so IT MUST BE NEW TECNOLIGY i.e Pulse meets VLF no other machine has that. hence the FUTURE of discovery.

i am betting this is a hybrid type machine CT (city) VLF GPX big red "X" Pulse technology.

now don't ask me how this is done but minelab have the biggest GEEK in the way of an Australian man named Bruce Candy so if i am right do me and Daniel Tn get one to test drive?

my initial reaction was big deal who cares!! but this is my prediction and if its true sign me up baby !! the more i look at this machine it just smells like pulse

BP

 

[Jason in Enid]

Very interesting thoughts on the subject!

 

[thebeatmachine]

I was just an the Best of North east show and the Minlab Reps didn't squeek anything about a new machine.

 

[Beyonder]

Interesting indeed. The time domain that I think they are speaking of, is the response time measured from the object to the detector. The problem with that is that different ground conditions can affect the signal speed(i.e wet ground is a faster response time). That is why depth cannot be precisely measured.

Things I think what would make a great machine for me would be:

I would like a to see a logic tree statements that we can program with conditionals like "if, when, and, like..." Can you imagine the possibilities?

example:

shallow nickels:

IF object is fe 10,11,12 co 11,12,13 AND only accept depth IF >4 inches THEN use (certain tone)

discrimination by depth:

WHEN object is >4 inches THEN do not use (any tone)

I realize that this is somewhat complex and parts redundant, however, your imagination and the machines limitations would be the extent of it's capabilities.

Also, a size meter that could tell the difference between a aluminum can and a quarter like on the old GTI 2500

Lastly, some way to rid iron falseing, that is the true bane for me, I miss so many good targets because of falseing, and I sweep slow too.

Anyway, I am looking forward to this new detector.

B

 

[thebeatmachine]

I has a pro style coil. Any new technology would need a different coil all together. In my opinion it is probably a Safari that is water proofed and has GPS and some advanced audio circuitry. I'm sure that FBS2 is more of a marketing concept kind of like the 28 frequencies thing.

 

[Ken in Georgia]

Sweet topic and good post here!!!!

 

[etracjoe]

Sorry in advance for a long read!! I like that thinking outside the box attitude. My grandfather was a radio engineer/pioneer and he had alot to do with microwave communications. See radio started out with a.m. and used morse code to then later use voice, single side band and fm. Let alone the frequencies that were later discovered like microwaves. Companies and hobbyists alike are always looking for ways to tweak, improve, and make more efficient old technology, and I am all for it. Of course some of it may be pointless but that is how we learn......by tinkering. I use this radio example because I feel it is very similar to what we do with our detectors. You are essentially using a transciever of sorts to manipulate waves of energy that when transmitted into the ground and the field is then broken by a metallic object a signal is then bounced back to the reciever with information regarding this object. Now just think of the possibilities on how to improve the above stated. Color on the display may help distinguish iron from a coin, who knows the possibilities. Look at what the explorers and etrac already have done to improve how we determine what an object is before digging. I have a good feeling that this is what the ctx 3030 is all about. Its Minelabs way of showcasing their ability to engineer and produce the best detecting technology we have out today. So far they have not let us down with their offerings. From the sovereign to the Etrac and everywhere in between Minelab has produced the finest detectors on the market today. And some of the older tech like the original sovereign for example still holds its ground. Minelab nor any other company out ther is going to keep all of us happy with the features of there products. If the ctx 3030 comes out in production with a weight of more than 5 pounds there has to be a reason why Minelab would still send it on its way. They know that weight is a big concern among the hobbyists. Maybe they believe the pros outweigh the cons. Now when it comes to price.......well you are paying for these technological advancements everyday with your new cars and new 3d lcd tv's etc. I happen to still own a tube tv because that is what "I CHOSE". So I suppose what I am trying to say is that if you want one bad enough you will be swinging one almost regardless of price because that is what you choose to do to. HH Joe

 

[Daniel Tn]

Coils can be made into whatever shape or size you want. A great example would be the Detech brand coils...aka the SEF butterfly and Ultimate coils. They are all exactly the same size and shape, and cover a whole slough of detector manufacturers and models. It's all on the inside that counts. All of the Minelab Commander coils for the GPX pulse machines are solid design and thick....yet the manufacturers like CoilTek and some of the others are of all different shapes and sizes for the same machines. Heck, even Detech makes a few of the SEF coils for the GPX line. Just because it looks like a Pro coil on the outside don't mean the insides are the same. Minelab may just be using the same coil molding to house a totally different inner design. That would be smart on their part if they are going to continue to produce the Pro coils. Otherwise, for the machine to be water proof, they still had to engineer something different in the coil/control housing connection point.

Jason @ RazorBack coils....he makes coils for the Whites TDI pulse machine. He can make them as small as 3 inches to as big as a wagon wheel...with spokes, with solid design, elliptical design, round design, if he can get the molding shape he can make it for you....all that for a pulse machine.

It will be interesting to see what they've came up with. I'm still hoping for a Time Domain hybrid machine

 

[Tom_in_CA]

When you get to the part where you're talking about aluminum vs gold, that's the stuff that dreams are made of. Because let's face it: there are parks and schools that no one's ever been a "hero" at, to strip-mine out the tabs and foil, in search of those elusive gold rings. Sure maybe those old parks and schools get mined for their silver coins, but ........... there are scores of blighted parks, athletic fields, picnic sites, etc... where it just doesn't pay to go hunt for gold rings there, because the ratio of aluminum to gold would send you packing for home. If a person was THAT hard-pressed to find gold rings, he's much better off to simply to go swimming beaches, than to think he's going to go to a blighted run-down inner-city park to find gold rings. As such, we all know that there are gold rings to be found IF ONLY A MACHINE CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE!

But alas, the things you talk about in your post about depth, ability to neutralize the effects of minerals, etc... are a separate thing from TID. All TIDs, at present are based on conductivity. And whether or not you can get "better accuracy" on those TIDs, to deeper depths, the problem still remains: you are still only reading conductivity (albeit to perhaps deeper depths, etc...). And unfortunately, gold and aluminum share the same conductivity. So until some new discoverey can unlock a way to tell actual composition (ala star trek style, eh?), ..... that day hasn't come yet.

 

[Jason in TN]

If it can separate trash and gold with 75% accuracy I will be first in line to pay $3000 for one and quit my job tommorrow and detect full time we can dream can't we.

 

[GraveDiggerMax-VaBch-Va]

n/t

 

[stumppass]

n/t

Come on MAX, you have proably been testing this thing out for months now! Go ahead and spill the beens!