Just wondering

[jackintexas]

How important would it be if someone discovered a way to get approx 90% of gold rings and got rid of approx 90% of the pull tabs. Just wondering....Jack

 

[REVIER]

How important would it be if someone discovered a way to get approx 90% of gold rings and got rid of approx 90% of the pull tabs. Just wondering....Jack

It would be important to the person that found a way, it would make them rich.

 

[ironsight]

The detector company that can pull this off would own the entire detector market!

 

[bootyhoundpa]

Aluminum mask.... i gotta think it will happen some day...probably later than sooner but it will ...

 

[Tom Slick]

Presently there isn't anyway to get 90% of the lost gold rings without getting the pull tabs. It is possible to program a white's V3i to get 90% of the gold rings (113) I've found while eliminating 90 % of the 18 pull tabs that I used as samples. What percentage of gold rings are laying out there without any other metal target laying in close enough proximity to cause the ring's VDI numbers to not get skewed? The only way to get the V3i to do it is to use a BigFoot coil designed for the DFX, MXT and M6. The detector has to be run in 3 frequency although the coil wasn't designed for that. The three frequencies cause the tabs to skew way up the VDI scale so tabs that normally hit at 21 to 48 hit at 32 to 75. It doesn't skew the gold rings in the same way and they continue to hit at lower VDI numbers. When using the 3 frequencies and the BigFoot coil, nickels hit at 54 and so do Zinc pennies. You can tell what's under the coil by checking the spectragraph to see which frequency is hitting the hardest. If it's the 22.5 kHz its a nickel if its the 2.5 and 7.5 kHz then its a zinc penny. If you don't have a V3i, much of this won't make any sense to you.

 

[jackintexas]

Hey Tom: It seems you are closer than anyone else I know. Keep at maybe you will be the one that solves that problem......Jack

 

[slingshot]

My idea of how it could be done would be a way to measure the rate the signal bounces off certain metals I got the idea from the old BFO days when foil would cause the beat to increase so rapidly the audio would squeal instead of the normal rate.

 

[Goldstrike]

If you have an idea in mind, please pm me with it and we can share the wealth

 

[vlad]

and its TID is totally different system than what we use today.
It used a stacked loop design containing two sensors, I think.
Both Charles Garrett & Ty Brook has written about the PRG, books & magazines both.
[references]

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Presently there isn't anyway to get 90% of the lost gold rings without getting the pull tabs. It is possible to program a white's V3i to get 90% of the gold rings (113) I've found while eliminating 90 % of the 18 pull tabs that I used as samples. What percentage of gold rings are laying out there without any other metal target laying in close enough proximity to cause the ring's VDI numbers to not get skewed? The only way to get the V3i to do it is to use a BigFoot coil designed for the DFX, MXT and M6. The detector has to be run in 3 frequency although the coil wasn't designed for that. The three frequencies cause the tabs to skew way up the VDI scale so tabs that normally hit at 21 to 48 hit at 32 to 75. It doesn't skew the gold rings in the same way and they continue to hit at lower VDI numbers. When using the 3 frequencies and the BigFoot coil, nickels hit at 54 and so do Zinc pennies. You can tell what's under the coil by checking the spectragraph to see which frequency is hitting the hardest. If it's the 22.5 kHz its a nickel if its the 2.5 and 7.5 kHz then its a zinc penny. If you don't have a V3i, much of this won't make any sense to you.

Tom, what you are referring to is not telling tabs apart from gold rings (in the true-est sense). It's what used to be called "ring enhancement programs". That is where you isolate the most commonly recurring type pulltab variations, and selectively eliminate just those TID's. Because so long as we're talking just the round tab with beaver tail, or the square tab, or whatever, then ...... so long as their shallow, you can get a pretty consistent TID off of them. And then presto, just eliminate those TID's.

And if you were to take a representative sample of 100's of random gold rings at a jewelry store, then the odds of them falling into those precise TID's, would only be a certain precentage. Say, like 15 or 25% odds. Such that, for example, with full round tabs, only a certain percentage of gold rings ever read *exactly* like that.

So all you're doing is playing the odds game. There will still be gold rings you'd miss, and there will still be round tabs you'll dig (d/t they're on edge, or folded, or whatever). And all bets are off if you get into places with foil wads. Because those can read ALL OVER THE SPECTRUM, depending on how big the foil wad is. And if you're in a zone where mowers tangled with aluminum cans (can slaw) all bets are off there too. The enhancement programs only work where there's an abundance of similarly recurring types aluminum junk.

 

[MI-AuAg]

I pretty much agree with Tom in CA on this. The Minelab CTX is the most accurate detector I have used to ID pultabs of different shapes, with its ferrous/conductive FE-CO readings. All you are really doing is eliminating (with a high degree of accuracy) one annoying element of trash that could POSSIBLY fall into the gold ring area.

With the host of other trash items as he mentioned, and the wide range of conductive areas rings can fall in (different sizes,alloys, etc.), knowing a ring from trash is still guesswork. It's great to be able to discriminate that very narrow range pulltabs fall in, without much effect on rings. The old saying, when in doubt, dig it out, still holds true.

 

[Tom Slick]

Tom_in_CA - You're absolutely correct. It is a "ring enhancement program". The difference being that with those programs you also eliminate a lot of the gold rings, probably 75% of them or more. The V3i program with the BigFoot coil moves the Aluminum up the VDI scale much more than the gold rings so the Ring enhancement program keeps a much greater percentage of the rings while eliminating a greater percentage of the tabs. In my testing, It keeps better than 90% of the gold rings I've found, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll hear one if you swing over it. It only works if the ring is sitting flat with no other metal near it.

 

[bootyhoundpa]

That's pretty slick,tom...

 

[jackintexas]

A lot of interesting comments....Jack

 

[Tom_in_CA]

If you were to take the 4 or 5 most annoying most recurring types aluminum, they would probably be: round tabs, square tabs, beaver tails, small foil wads, etc... right ? And let's say you got a TID range for *just* those. Then next if you were to sample 200 gold rings from a jewelry store (like if you had a friend who owned a jewelry store, and let you come in and air test 200 rings). And then put all the resulting TID's on a computer chart. And then edit IN the most commonly recurring gold ring spots of TID's.

There would probably be only about 20% of the rings you'd loose, by doing those accept & reject patterns. That was the idea of the ring enhancement programs that guys dreamed up, back when TID was first introduced in the very early 1980s. You would remember that, since you'd been detecting since the '70s, and since you were a Whites dealer

The trouble was, that all of that would go "out the window" if you went to parks that had can slaw, and when larger foil wads abounded. ;(

 

[Tom Slick]

Tom_in_CA - Sounds like you're trying to educate me on what a ring enhancement program is. I made my first Ring enhancement program when I got my White's Eagle II SL 90.5 in 1990. I think what you're missing in my posts above is the way ALUMINUM (Can Slaw & Pulltab) VDI's are skewed and driven up the scale by using the V3i with the BigFoot coil in three frequencies. I tried to explain it in the two posts above, but like I said, if you don't have a V3i and a BigFoot coil, you won't understand.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

No, I don't have a V3i. So I must not know what you're driving at. But even with that, and the big-foot coil, it's still not going to distinguish aluminum from gold right ? Perhaps improve your Las Vegas odds of distinguishing "commonly recurring aluminum items", eh?

There is a certain furroughed field we hunt, that had been the location of an old stage stop. And since it's currently row crops, that means that when the fieldworkers discard their aluminum cans, that they turn into can slaw with the tractor/plows.

And I've gotten to where I can just tell that junk apart from a "round" item. The can slaw (with various dog-turd type shapes and bends), is distinguished in sound from coin sized/shaped things. And perhaps if I studied the cross-hairs on my explorer, or seen on your V3i, would have a difference that, yes, can be programmed into an enhancement program. Such that you can add more types of commonly recurring things to the formula. I agree.


Naturally, it's possible that an odd big gold braclet or "Mr. T." gold chain could also have those same characteristics. But .... if you're in a place with LOTS of can slaw, then it makes sense to play the odds .

 

[MI-AuAg]

Bottom line, how would ANYBODY know if they found 90%, or missed 90% of ANYTHING!

When you "miss" something, by definition, you didn't/don't know it's there. When you find any item, how can you know if, 10%, 20%, or whatever number of that item remains. That's why saying we cleaned out an area, or got 90%, or whatever, is ALL conjecture, based on supposition, with a dose of guessing!

Pretty much all we can do, is use whatever machines we have at a level we feel is optimal for our individual purpose.

 

[slingshot]

Tom_in_CA - Sounds like you're trying to educate me on what a ring enhancement program is. I made my first Ring enhancement program when I got my White's Eagle II SL 90.5 in 1990. I think what you're missing in my posts above is the way ALUMINUM (Can Slaw & Pulltab) VDI's are skewed and driven up the scale by using the V3i with the BigFoot coil in three frequencies. I tried to explain it in the two posts above, but like I said, if you don't have a V3i and a BigFoot coil, you won't understand.

This is interesting- sorta like what I'm talking about. Maybe the signal return differences show up similar at different frequencies bit askew on trash.

 

[Mike Hillis]

Tom_in_CA is one of my secret weapons. He keeps all the would be inland jewelry hunters discouraged and focused on clad. HA!

Sorry, Tom. Couldn't resist.

HH
Mike