Manticore’s strange reporting on a $10 target

[Ytcoinshooter]

I’d like to see Minelab and any of this community comment on my video. What you’ll see I also tried using the “metal free” plastic table to place targets on but without a mount for my phone to record, it was easier to place the targets on the lawn.

We had a fun / planted / pirate theme hunt Sunday 5/18. I’ve not been a big fan of planted hunts but to show support for our club and the fact that it had much thought and effort put into it it was a great social occasion with prizes. The roll of quarters was stealthy planted during the hunt instead of before because our pres realized we had more than enough coins, bling, tokens and mini th’er chests planted and just decided WTF. Digging every signal is the norm in these planted beach hunts or you may miss something being masked that was set up on purpose. Lucky me who investigates everything got a weird report from my Manticore. This video shows what I demonstrated to club members right after I found it. I knew right then I’d make a short vid when I got home. The manticore was not the only detector to report this target in the foil range. A DEUS 2 another member was swinging did this as well. I have the D2 and will get outside and try a few things on this target with it and other detectors as time allows. I never got an overload signal in the manticore and my results are repeatable. I will mention that I’m new to the Manticore but not new to detecting (39 years). I recall something after the release of the Equinox series some reports of big silver on edge not reporting as expected. I’ll try this target on my EQX800 to see. I was pretty tired when I got home so I did just this one short video.

 

[jmaclen]

I’ve been spelling English language words for 64 years and I still need a spell checker so time detecting isn’t necessarily proof of being an expert on every situation.

The keyword in your post/video is “expect”.

You don’t need $10 of quarters to make this “problem” occur. $2 of quarters will make quite the audio mess on most VLFs the more honest they are. Turn on your iron responses (horseshoe button) and enjoy the noise.

You can take multiple metal items of similar size and stack them but with a tiny air gap and get some really weird results detecting them on edge. Glue them, weld them and you will likely hear something different.

With some of these detectors like Deus 2 and Manticore, I can hear the threads on a screw, bolt or even an aluminum screw cap if they are oriented with the threads perpendicular to the coil since they can often create a kaleidoscope of target ids and audio responses.

There is also the concept of a cyclical target ID scale instead of linear.

Is it possible for software engineers to fix this special issue? Maybe, but at the expense of some other special issue.

 

[WaterWalker]

It may have something to do with the detector "seeing" 40 "targets" when the coil is passed over them as they lay on their edge. Similar to a chain when detected each link is a "target". Then the detector's processor has not been programed to "see" more than 1 target, not multiple at the same time and returns the best of its confused information. But when the roll of coins is standing on end, there is only one target seen and reported. It would be interesting to hear from one of the software engineers.

 

[fwcrawford]

This issue is pretty interesting.
Some time ago, I took a quart jar filled with clad…. Mostly quarters and tested it with my 800….i was quite shocked at the results….standing upright or laying on it’s side really made little difference… it read around 12 om my detector…. Not at all what I expected.

 

[Ytcoinshooter]

You can’t make them any tighter than a machine wrapped roll without welding them. The experience was a surprise and a reason for my post.

“time detecting isn’t necessarily proof of being an expert on every situation” - correct, it does not - nor was I inferring that I am. I am always learning something new. I use the word “expecting” loosely. I was expecting a different response not having ever tested a roll of coins, especially on the latest generation of high end metal detectors. My brain “sees” a “mass” of metal as the tight roll. Does the detector see 40 coins? I will leave that for debate and further experimenting. This isn’t like some nail board or targets in a line test…rat-a-tat rat-a-tat…40 quarters.
I just finished trying this with my DEUS 2. Made a short video I may post showing the roll on its side, then turning 90° on it. Resulting responses were not much better and of course placing the roll on end gave the expected solid high conductor response. In the video I first posted above audio was set to hear iron.
I’ve got a bunch of working detectors. I think I’ll be trying this on them as time allows. I’d bet the most predictable response will be from my PI units.

This is what I experienced - YMMV

 

[Ytcoinshooter]

This issue is pretty interesting.
Some time ago, I took a quart jar filled with clad…. Mostly quarters and tested it with my 800….i was quite shocked at the results….standing upright or laying on it’s side really made little difference… it read around 12 om my detector…. Not at all what I expected.

Yesterday I immediately pulled some club members aside at the hunt and asked them to run their detectors over this $10 roll of quarters. Equinoxes, Deus 2, Fisher F series included. The results with those detectors and mine prompted me to post this up. Thanks for your post. I think these findings open up a whole new area of discussion.

 

[fwcrawford]

To save you some time, I tried this test with my 800; XTP, and XTerra 50 and got the same results as you showed in your video…
I plan to try this with a couple beep dig detectors too when I get a chance.

 

[jmaclen]

You can’t make them any tighter than a machine wrapped roll without welding them. The experience was a surprise and a reason for my post.

“time detecting isn’t necessarily proof of being an expert on every situation” - correct, it does not - nor was I inferring that I am. I am always learning something new. I use the word “expecting” loosely. I was expecting a different response not having ever tested a roll of coins, especially on the latest generation of high end metal detectors. My brain “sees” a “mass” of metal as the tight roll. Does the detector see 40 coins? I will leave that for debate and further experimenting. This isn’t like some nail board or targets in a line test…rat-a-tat rat-a-tat…40 quarters.
I just finished trying this with my DEUS 2. Made a short video I may post showing the roll on its side, then turning 90° on it. Resulting responses were not much better and of course placing the roll on end gave the expected solid high conductor response. In the video I first posted above audio was set to hear iron.
I’ve got a bunch of working detectors. I think I’ll be trying this on them as time allows. I’d bet the most predictable response will be from my PI units.

This is what I experienced - YMMV

Even though those quarters were machine wrapped there is still space between them.

Audio like that is a “tell” for me that there is an unusual target under the coil like a chain, broken ring, an odd coin spill…

The video you posted above shows some of your settings. The horseshoe button is set to OFF. It will have a white background when it’s ON.

I was in on the original mess with the Equinox 600/800 supposedly not detecting coins on edge. I never noticed much of an issue but I knew what to expect which as you noted, is some crazy audio responses that can include some strong iron audio or blanking if iron audio is off.

I didn’t mean to offend you with anything I posted. If I did, my apologies.

 

[sube]

This is probably why I find so few quarter rolls . sube

 

[Ytcoinshooter]

You can’t make them any tighter than a machine wrapped roll without welding them. The experience was a surprise and a reason for my post.

“time detecting isn’t necessarily proof of being an expert on every situation” - correct, it does not nor was I inferring that I am. I use the word “expecting” loosely. I was expecting a different response not having ever tested a roll of coins, especially on the latest generation of high end metal detectors. My brain sees a “mass” of metal as the tight roll. Does the detector see 40 coins? I will leave that for debate and further experimenting. This isn’t like some nail board or targets in a line test…rat-a-tat rat-a-tat…
I just finished trying this with my DEUS 2. Made a short video showing the roll on its side, then turning 90° on it. Resulting responses were not much better and of course placing the roll on end gave the expected solid high conductor response. In the video I first posted audio was set to hear iron.

Even though those quarters were machine wrapped there is still space between them.

Audio like that is a “tell” for me that there is an unusual target under the coil like a chain, broken ring, an odd coin spill…

The video you posted above shows some of your settings. The horseshoe button is set to OFF. It will have a white background when it’s ON.

I was in on the original mess with the Equinox 600/800 supposedly not detecting coins on edge. I never noticed much of an issue but I knew what to expect which as you noted, is some crazy audio responses that can include some strong iron audio or blanking if iron audio is off.

I didn’t mean to offend you with anything I posted. If I did, my apologies.

I agree and was following the entire release of the Equinox so I’m familiar with the coin on edge issue. I was a pretty early adopter getting the first an 800 in Feb. 2018. My primary unit for 5 years until the D2. I was messing with the All Metal button, good catch as it wasn’t on in the video. As you noted the audio is key, both the Manticore and the D2 provide nuanced audio info the visual ID alone cannot. I started using tone ID more and trying to tune my ears when the Eagle II was released….it has come a long way in the 2 modern multi frequency units we use today.

 

[north1]

Don’t have the manticore…..yet. Decided to read through manual and noticed on the search mode descriptions it mentioned “coin stacks” under All Terrain High Conductors mode . You may have tried that already though.

 

[Ytcoinshooter]

Don’t have the manticore…..yet. Decided to read through manual and noticed on the search mode descriptions it mentioned “coin stacks” under All Terrain High Conductors mode . You may have tried that already though.

Awesome-Yes, thank you! I saw that before I went out cellar hole hunting yesterday, was reviewing my .pdf manual early. Good for MLab including that. Completely forgot about after getting home. I’m usually zoned out - zonked after miles of uneven, ground, ledge rock and stumbling …