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Manually selecting Noise Cancel channels

rickinsdakota

New member
Does manually selecting Noise Cancel channels change the sensitivity to silver, gold etc. I believe lower channels such as 3 or 4 was hotter on silver than say 9 or 10 was on the Etrac. The higher numbers were hotter on gold with the Etrac. Do these numbers hold true on the CTX.
 
I've never heard that, but it would be interesting to know.
 
If you've ever visited the site run by Sergei, he's a big proponent of manually selecting noise channels. He describes the process on his site, but basically he suggests finding a good target and then, before digging, to manually test each channel until you have the purest signal. Of course, you'll need to know that it is positively a good target, which I'm still not able to do 100 percent of the time. LOL. But, I'm getting there.
 
I think I recall this being covered before. I don't remember if it was hog wash or Bologna. However, if there is any truth to it I would definitely like to know.
 
On ALL FBS machines the Noise Cancel control is the only function that can change the transmitted signal.
Here's what it does:

CHANNELS1-11.JPG


These pics were taken from my oscilloscope with its input from a loop around the Pro coil. Notice that Noise Channel 1 is a higher frequency than Noise Channel 11.
 
So the lower frequency, the more shallow the depth, but stronger on low conductors like Nickels and Gold? Am I thinking about that correctly?
 
Thanks!
 
I cant see or tell any difference. Its always best to let machine make the best choice in my opinion. I do it about every 30 mins of hunting since conditions often change.
 
When I was in the Air Force, I was an electronics technician in general and a radio technician specifically. Lower frequencies tend to travel further and retain their energy more so than higher frequencies. That's why you typically can pick up AM radio stations at much further distances than FM radio stations, although the types of modulation (amplitude vs. frequency) also factor into that. In fact, there is a common theory that after a global nuclear incident, low frequency radio systems would likely be the only reliable form of communication until the effects of electro magnectic interference have dissipated. Of course, that's only a paper theory because we've never experienced a global nuclear incident. Tying all that into the noise cancelation issue, I think the frequency separation between channels on the CTX and E-trac is so minimal (we're only talking about a few KHz), that I'm not sure it would have much impact, if any, on depth and sensitivity. But if I were going to manually select a channel, I'd look for one that uses a lower operating frequency over a higher one. Even then I think, as Bart mentions, conditions change often and it's unlikely that there's one channel that is the absolute best in all situations....although I've seen Channel 11 recommended as the best choice for manual selection.
 
The frequency shift is so minor as to be negligible on performance. Of course, if you fail to properly noise cancel then EMI could have a large impact on performance. So, I think I'd let the detector select the clearest channel.
 
DukeOBass said:
So the lower frequency, the more shallow the depth, but stronger on low conductors like Nickels and Gold? Am I thinking about that correctly?

....... higher frequencies are more sensitive to lower conductive targets such as gold nickels. And, higher frequencies can be more sensitive to extremely small targets. Lower frequencies should detect more deeply than higher frequencies. At least with "normal sized" (coins) or larger targets.

Personally, I have found certain NC channels to work "better" than others, at given sites. At one of my favorite sites, even if the Auto NC selects channel 4, I bump mine up to 11 and am convinced I am getting more depth. I don't know if the CTX 3030 stopped searching for a quite channel when it got to four, and didn't check for others??? Regardless, I attribute the perceived "additional depth" to a more thorough neutralization of noise, opposed to operating at a "higher or lower" frequency. IMO, the slight frequency change created by any offset (due to changing the NC channel) is extremely minute, when compared to the 1.5 kHz - 100 kHz available on the CTX 3030.
HH Randy
 

It's true that higher freqs are required to excite a non-magnetic low-conductor. The FBS utilizes a high freq of about 25 kHz and a low freq of about 3.125 kHz. This is the high and low freq channels. The FBS units compare the returned responses at several different times. If a target is more resistive (to eddy flow) then the time constant will be short but produce a high freq resistive signal. If the target is conductive with a longer Tc, then the detector gets a longer but lower frequency resistive signal. Sample the low and high freqs received and compare the ratio of low to high freq component to get an idea of the time constant of the target.

When the detector searches the channels for the least EMI it is only able to adjust the xmit freq a minor amount. Thus, the high freq of 25 kHz,which would normally be Channel 6 would be pushed to 27.78 kHz if Channel 11 were selected or dropped to 22.2 kHz if Channel 1 were used.

In theory, Channel 1's lower freq set would be better for exciting higher conductors (that require less pulse repetition to form eddies, like silver, copper, and larger gold rings). Since iron target are high resistive the lowered pulse repetition would make the iron less reactive and less likely to produce those resistive high tone chirps from eddies.

Channel 11's slightly higher freq set would excite high conductors too, but not as deeply (skin effect) and would have more impact on low conductors that require more pulse repetitions to sustain eddy development. Not ideal if you want to keep iron quiet but better for high resistive targets (low conductivity) like lead, steel, stainless steel, foil, cupro-nickel cents, thin rings, and some pull-tabs, etc.

In a single freq VLF machine raising the operating freq might give an advantage to lower conductors but with the FBS system, the net effect is still a determination of target time constants. The VLF machine is more interested in phase, comparing R to X, while the FBS is a hybrid that measures signal decay at two frequencies. So, I think the gain or loss in frequency shifting is not that important as the ratio of Tc is not as affected.

Of course, if you override the preferred auto setting and dial in Channel 11 because you are after thin rings along the beach - and you think this is going to give an advantage, what if local EMI would otherwise make Channel 1 the preferred channel. EMI can ruin your sensitivity, make the detector chatty and unstable - all the things you don't want. It can ruin your depth without any noticeable audio affect - you wouldn't even know it. So, I'd still recommend to let the machine determine the best setting.
 
Johnnyanglo said:
The FBS utilizes a high freq of about 25 kHz and a low freq of about 3.125 kHz. This is the high and low freq channels.

Actually, FBS simultaneously transmits and analyzes a full band of multiple frequencies from 1.5 kHz to 100 kHz. It is the BBS models (Sovereigns and Excalibur) that simultaneously transmit and analyze a broad band of multiple frequencies from 1.5 kHz to 25.5 kHz, in increments of 1.5 kHz. HH Randy
 
Hit your menu button then go to the far right of the me u screen. You can manually select there! Or if I'm not mistaken you can just hold the noise can el button in but I'm not 100% on that one! However I'd allow your machine to select your channel!! JMHO
 
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