Hello all, I would greatly appreciated if all would comment: I'm checking to see how the cities around the nation is responding in allowing metal detecting in the city owned parks. We in Louisville Ky is just recently having problems with being run out of parks metal detecting. According to a certain park manager we are allow to metal detect but not do any digging. According to our Metro city ordinances and the Park rules, nothing is mentioned in making this prohibitted. But as you know, government always comes on top. I'm just checking to see if the trends are leaning against detecting nationwide. I saw the post the Mike wrote about his troubles in Forest Park in St Louis. I hope you guys are not having these problems. I just started metal detecting last year and really got hooked on it after meeting and talking with those who have been detecting the parks for the past 30 yrs or so and especially after just starting to learn the Explorer and now finding those goodies that the others has left behind!!! I hope you all comment on this! Thanks in advance. EddieB
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Metal detecting in city owned parks
- Thread starter EddieB
- Start date
Magicman
Member
Here in Columbia, SC I called the city recreation department and obtained permission. I haven't any problems except some workers come over to me tell me I can not, until I mention the city manager's name. We have a lot of parks and the rangers have even helped me identify areas. I gave them a class, showed them how I dig and filling back in the hole with the grass plug on top.
The rangers told me they have run other MDs off, didn't obtain permission or fill in their holes.
The rangers told me they have run other MDs off, didn't obtain permission or fill in their holes.
sangamon
Member
sure, most citizens have been victims of overzealous "law enforcement," and if a police officer or park employee says detecting is not allowed, it's usually in your best interest to move on.
however, one has to consider the bigger picture: in our hobby, there is a certain element who have no regard for the damage they cause, and their tactics are reprehensible.
some are simply ignorant, as in the newbie who brings a shovel to detect a pristine lawn, or fails to replace his divot on the soccer field.
others are rogues, who might sneak into parks after-hours, or otherwise disregard ordinances and other common-sense rules of treasure hunting etiquette.
obviously, park officials can't pick and choose who they would allow to detect "their" parks, so the easy answer is to ban the activity altogether.
and, as is often the case, the majority of conscientious, law-abiding detectorists suffer for the actions of a few selfish jerks.
just my 2 (zinc) cents...
however, one has to consider the bigger picture: in our hobby, there is a certain element who have no regard for the damage they cause, and their tactics are reprehensible.
some are simply ignorant, as in the newbie who brings a shovel to detect a pristine lawn, or fails to replace his divot on the soccer field.
others are rogues, who might sneak into parks after-hours, or otherwise disregard ordinances and other common-sense rules of treasure hunting etiquette.
obviously, park officials can't pick and choose who they would allow to detect "their" parks, so the easy answer is to ban the activity altogether.
and, as is often the case, the majority of conscientious, law-abiding detectorists suffer for the actions of a few selfish jerks.
just my 2 (zinc) cents...
Southwind
Well-known member
In Dodge City Kansas I have been able to hunt our city park without problems for years, but I can see it coming to an end. I have always taken great care to leave no sign of my recoveries, and refuse to dig below 10" because I can't do it without causing permanent damage. Lately I've seen many holes left by someone else that really pisses me off. I also saw a new person swing a detector today in our city park. It's only a matter of time before it becomes illegal.
mattockman
New member
How do I put this? Take 20 detectorists.....2-3 out of 20 don't fill their hole and leave the trash they dig on top of the ground. Now 18-17 of the good do-bees loose the right to detect cause of the few bad apples. Just prohibit it to all and cure it in one stroke of a pen! Now what about drivers? Say they just stroked the pen in favor of prohibiting driving cars cause of the nuts on the road today...well now we can't do that now can we....it would ruin the revenue they make on violations, and car manufacturers will go broke, and workers will loose their jobs and more will rely on welfare then a snow ball effect and the USA will be the Homeless capitol of the world.....ok....has any of the pen strokers considered the same for manufacturers of the metal detecting industry....and the US citizen trying to pursue happiness, hell no....we will just become criminals, no jobs, no fun, depressed, amongst other things..... all of these things will = crime......Why can't they just look at it as revenue and fine anyone caught not following the good ethnic rules......Whats the big deal....Mother nature will take care of the grass if it gets a little brown....we will try our best to do a good job....They allow dogs at parks as long as they pick up the poop...or fine them if they get caught not picking it up.....animals leave more brown spots than detectorist when they pee on the grass......and all the poop on the beaches may cause e-coli...but they still get to bring the dogs to beach....at least during the off season here. Hello pen strokers making the rules....the things you do to ruin the lives of many......is it really worth it.......Live and let live is a better motto than.....I make the rules around HERE!!....
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Same around here. It's go ahead and detect but you cannot dig. That is the city owned parks. The County as of the end of last year did not care. I have yet to go into a County Park this year. I quit doing public areas just because of the reasons others have stated. I am mainly swithcing to privatley owned land. Less hassel, less trash, and more fun. Once you donate a few things back to a historical society or some of the land owners, word gets out. And then it just gets easier to get into private land. They even have forwarded my name to people who needed something found.
Like any sport or hobby, it only takes a few to spoil it for many.
jimb SE WI
Like any sport or hobby, it only takes a few to spoil it for many.
jimb SE WI
mattockman
New member
n/t
jim cluster
New member
I was detecting Bradenton Fl and the nice lady from the Admin. office came over to me and said" Are you Dusty" no I replied " well Dusty called me and asked to detect here" oh I replied. She said I was in the sports compound, I said what's a sports compound? I'm on the edge of a 5 acre field " well anywhere you see grass" then she gives me the "well it's not illegal to detect just you can't dig in the park" Well I held my peace and " said well the guys that checked me out today twice didn't say anything to me, or that I couldn't detect" she came back with "well I wrote the policy" Oh,well what can you say to the boss. IT'S BETTER TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS, THAN ASK FOR PERMISSION. If your reading this post Dusty there's your answer regarding the park detecting, you got them thinking in the offices.
Do you see the common theme in a lot of the comments here? People "asked", and were told "no". Or maybe it wasn't exactly THEM that asked, but the person booting them references an earlier inquirer, to whom they had told "no". Do you get it? With certain exceptions, I think sometimes WE are own worst enemy. All we do by going around asking, is to caste aspursions on ourselves, as if metal detecting were somehow inherently evil enough, that we had to "ask", to begin with! The minute you do that, you will easily find some deskbound bureaucrat, whose image is geeks with shovels leaving a mess, to say "no". And truth be told, you'd probably have been ignored, if you'd just gone. Ie.: a lot of times, they don't give it thought, UNTIL you ask. Yes, of course, if you're not being discreet about your digging/holes, then yeah, someone will say something. That is because, no matter how well you replace, stomp, etc..., the only image in a passerby's mind, is when they saw you half way through a recovery. No matter how much you tell them "you won't even be able to tell I was here", their only image is the recovery half way through.
There is NO park in the entire United Sates ANYWHERE, where ...... if you walk into the park's dept. and ask "can I dig in the park?" that will tell you "yes". I mean, C'mon! So c'mon guys, just go at off-times where you don't stick out. Go at low traffic times, and don't start a recovery (unless it's shallow clad) if some busybody lookie-lou is watching. Yeah, I know this doesn't apply at parks/cities that ALREADY have rules, but for cities who don't have anything concrete, why would you want to raise a bunch of attention to yourself or your hobby?
In my city, our parks and schools were, and still are, routinely detected, at will, and no one has ever cared. When I first started detecting in the 1970s, we naturally went to schools and parks. It never even occured to us we might need to "ask". I mean, afterall, it's a public park, right? We'd go right in front of anyone and everyone, including gardeners, and never had anything but a friendly wave. But then one day, a newbie to town shows up at one of our club meetings. He hears a fellow say that such & such old coin was "found in central park". He objected and says "I thought central park was off-limits?" We say "since when? Who told you this?" etc... Turns out, he'd gone to city hall and asked! This kind of scared a few of us, because now we were concerned that maybe there was a new rule or something. Or, maybe it was a fluke answer by some desk-bound person, but, guess what might happen when that same person passes the park, see a different md'r, and remembers the earlier inquiry? Whereas they might never have noticed or paid attention to a detector before, NOW though, they might remember the earlier inquiry (like 'aha! there's one of them") and start booting people!
It's a catch 22 situation. Because admittedly, although only a small percentage of cities ever have any rules (or enforcement) to do with detecting. But the mere fact that a few cases get put on web forums, cause other people to rush out and "see if there's any rules in their town", and the attention just snowballs, as city folks go to "address this pressing question".
Another example: In San Francisco, there are probably over 100 parks of various sizes and shapes. There is, as far as we know, nothing specifically written that addresses detecting. Perhaps "disturbing the vegetation", but nothing about detecting. Now and then, once in a blue moon, someone will get the ire of a gardener or passing bureaucrat. So we just "move on", and make it a point to avoid just that one park, or just that one person. From what I gather on the forums, others would take big issue with that, and assume "Oh now! All the parks in my town are off-limits" and proceed to take it to the highest levels, ending up often-time, doing more harm, than good. Ie.: taking isolated situations, and ending up getting actual rules or enforcment.
So unforutantely, our hobby is like nose-picking. If you enough people "can I pick my nose?" Someone will eventually tell you "no". Or if you stood on the street corner long enough picking your nose, someone would eventually take offense, and boot you (as a traffic nuisance or something). But on the other hand, if you discreetly pick your nose, and don't stick out like a sore thumb, you are usually ignored. Gross analogy, but kind true in a wierd way.
There is NO park in the entire United Sates ANYWHERE, where ...... if you walk into the park's dept. and ask "can I dig in the park?" that will tell you "yes". I mean, C'mon! So c'mon guys, just go at off-times where you don't stick out. Go at low traffic times, and don't start a recovery (unless it's shallow clad) if some busybody lookie-lou is watching. Yeah, I know this doesn't apply at parks/cities that ALREADY have rules, but for cities who don't have anything concrete, why would you want to raise a bunch of attention to yourself or your hobby?
In my city, our parks and schools were, and still are, routinely detected, at will, and no one has ever cared. When I first started detecting in the 1970s, we naturally went to schools and parks. It never even occured to us we might need to "ask". I mean, afterall, it's a public park, right? We'd go right in front of anyone and everyone, including gardeners, and never had anything but a friendly wave. But then one day, a newbie to town shows up at one of our club meetings. He hears a fellow say that such & such old coin was "found in central park". He objected and says "I thought central park was off-limits?" We say "since when? Who told you this?" etc... Turns out, he'd gone to city hall and asked! This kind of scared a few of us, because now we were concerned that maybe there was a new rule or something. Or, maybe it was a fluke answer by some desk-bound person, but, guess what might happen when that same person passes the park, see a different md'r, and remembers the earlier inquiry? Whereas they might never have noticed or paid attention to a detector before, NOW though, they might remember the earlier inquiry (like 'aha! there's one of them") and start booting people!
It's a catch 22 situation. Because admittedly, although only a small percentage of cities ever have any rules (or enforcement) to do with detecting. But the mere fact that a few cases get put on web forums, cause other people to rush out and "see if there's any rules in their town", and the attention just snowballs, as city folks go to "address this pressing question".
Another example: In San Francisco, there are probably over 100 parks of various sizes and shapes. There is, as far as we know, nothing specifically written that addresses detecting. Perhaps "disturbing the vegetation", but nothing about detecting. Now and then, once in a blue moon, someone will get the ire of a gardener or passing bureaucrat. So we just "move on", and make it a point to avoid just that one park, or just that one person. From what I gather on the forums, others would take big issue with that, and assume "Oh now! All the parks in my town are off-limits" and proceed to take it to the highest levels, ending up often-time, doing more harm, than good. Ie.: taking isolated situations, and ending up getting actual rules or enforcment.
So unforutantely, our hobby is like nose-picking. If you enough people "can I pick my nose?" Someone will eventually tell you "no". Or if you stood on the street corner long enough picking your nose, someone would eventually take offense, and boot you (as a traffic nuisance or something). But on the other hand, if you discreetly pick your nose, and don't stick out like a sore thumb, you are usually ignored. Gross analogy, but kind true in a wierd way.
mattockman
New member
n/t
Great Republic
Active member
Just get out there,be nice ,be neat,be charming,be careful,be camo, be anything you have to be...just stay away from the MAN...or WOMAN.
Andrus(ut)
New member
n/t
...it can be a bit of a relief not to worry about it if you know it's allowed.
Might be different in smaller cities--my town has a pop. of about 50,000--but not long after I started detecting, I asked a town selectman, who checked with the town counsel who said there were no bylaws. The only problem I've had in this town is when someone called the police when I was detecting at night--which I do a lot of--because the caller thought I was burying something. Other times (previously) I've had police pull up near where I was to see what I was doing and then drive away, perhaps after sitting there a minute or two.
In one town next to me I tried a different approach and walked into the police station and asked them before detecting in a small part right next to the station. The officer at the desk went into the back for 5 minutes and came back and said it was fine. In that town I've had park employees double-check I wasn't leaving a mess but that's been it. That's also in a town another detector that belongs to a metal-detecting club says the police has chased them out of. In that case, I didn't ask about bylaws but just asked if it was okay. That way if an officer stopped by and started giving me grief I could say I'd checked at the station and they'd said it was okay.
This weekend I called the police at another town next to me and asked. They replied there were no bylaws against and I was fine as long as I didn't detect on private property without asking. (Funny thing is this town has some federal lands that they arrest detectors on and he didn't mention that.) After work last night, I went detecting in one of their parks into the dark which I probably wouldn't have done at night without having asked ahead of time.
I also called another town this weekend that looked like it had a promising spot and asked about their bylaws and they said it was fine. Went to the spot and ran into two other detectorists for the first time (except for the beach). That was pretty cool. Real nice fellows. One even drove me around and showed me some other spots to try out. (Still trying to figure out their names on the boards--here and TN--though.
I think part of it might be who you ask and how you ask. Other than in my town, my thinking on asking the police is they're likely the ones to be doing the enforcement--at least the serious part of it--and, also, while they're supposed to know the laws they enforce, they don't always. (Found that out pretty clearly when asking about gun laws at one point.) That way if they've said it's okay, at least I have plausible deniability and am much less likely to get in any serious trouble if indeed the town has bylaws the police I've asked don't know about.
As the Brandenton problem illustrates, I sure wouldn't ask park/grounds employees, unless warranted. For example, in Mass. one has to get clearance from the manager(?) of state parks to detect on them. Only place I've asked so far--which has cellar holes from back into the 1600s--I've been turned down (except for their sand beaches).
YMMV.
Might be different in smaller cities--my town has a pop. of about 50,000--but not long after I started detecting, I asked a town selectman, who checked with the town counsel who said there were no bylaws. The only problem I've had in this town is when someone called the police when I was detecting at night--which I do a lot of--because the caller thought I was burying something. Other times (previously) I've had police pull up near where I was to see what I was doing and then drive away, perhaps after sitting there a minute or two.
In one town next to me I tried a different approach and walked into the police station and asked them before detecting in a small part right next to the station. The officer at the desk went into the back for 5 minutes and came back and said it was fine. In that town I've had park employees double-check I wasn't leaving a mess but that's been it. That's also in a town another detector that belongs to a metal-detecting club says the police has chased them out of. In that case, I didn't ask about bylaws but just asked if it was okay. That way if an officer stopped by and started giving me grief I could say I'd checked at the station and they'd said it was okay.
This weekend I called the police at another town next to me and asked. They replied there were no bylaws against and I was fine as long as I didn't detect on private property without asking. (Funny thing is this town has some federal lands that they arrest detectors on and he didn't mention that.) After work last night, I went detecting in one of their parks into the dark which I probably wouldn't have done at night without having asked ahead of time.
I also called another town this weekend that looked like it had a promising spot and asked about their bylaws and they said it was fine. Went to the spot and ran into two other detectorists for the first time (except for the beach). That was pretty cool. Real nice fellows. One even drove me around and showed me some other spots to try out. (Still trying to figure out their names on the boards--here and TN--though.
I think part of it might be who you ask and how you ask. Other than in my town, my thinking on asking the police is they're likely the ones to be doing the enforcement--at least the serious part of it--and, also, while they're supposed to know the laws they enforce, they don't always. (Found that out pretty clearly when asking about gun laws at one point.) That way if they've said it's okay, at least I have plausible deniability and am much less likely to get in any serious trouble if indeed the town has bylaws the police I've asked don't know about.
As the Brandenton problem illustrates, I sure wouldn't ask park/grounds employees, unless warranted. For example, in Mass. one has to get clearance from the manager(?) of state parks to detect on them. Only place I've asked so far--which has cellar holes from back into the 1600s--I've been turned down (except for their sand beaches).
YMMV.
Southwind
Well-known member
Just yesterday I asked a park official if I could detect an area in the park and was told "Sure, go ahead." I'm sure things will change as more people start hunting, but I think being a small city helps. I hunt all the time with park officials not far away. I would rather they see me detecting and doing it with care than to think I'm the one leaving holes.
Hi BlackX and Southwind. Whenever the subject comes up as to whether md'rs have to "ask" at innocuous regular parks/schools (ie.: barring obvious historical monuments), someone is sure to come on the thread with examples of how they "asked" in their town, and got a "yes". I guess the inference is: "I got a yes by asking, so therefore all md'rs should ask everywhere" My answer to that is two-fold:
1) You could just as easily have gotten a "no" (from a place where perhaps no one really cared or thought about it). I have heard equal # of stories of persons waltzing into city halls and park's dept. getting "no's" as well.
2) Whomever gave you the yes, was obviously ill-informed. I mean, depending on how you worded it, could get you a variety of answers. For instance, if you showed up with a shovel in your hand, and a printed-out copy of ARPA laws in the other hand, and asked "can I dig for buried treasure in the city parks?" what do you think their answer would have been? Also, don't forget to hand them a search and salvage agreement to sign, and hold-harmless contract, etc... Lest they not fully understand the impact of your question.
There was a state park campgrond near me (Santa Cruz, CA) that used to be detected routinely all the time. No one ever had a problem. Then one day, a friend of mine, a detector dealer, got booted! He was booted by a ranger who he'd seen before, but who had never stopped to talk before. Others too now were also getting booted. A week or so after this happened, he was talking to a fellow whom he'd sold a detector to a few weeks earlier. The newbie commented that he'd gone to that state park's entrance kiosk and asked "can I metal detect here?". The ranger on duty apparently had never given it thought before. So he tells the guy "hmm, lemme check". The ranger must've found some wording he though applied, like "don't disturb the vegetation" or "objects of antiquity", etc... and tells the guy "no". When my dealer friend heard the newbie telling him how he'd gotten a "no", he asked him "when did that occur?" When the compared dates, it became apparent that the bootings began right after the guy inquired! My friend couldn't help but feel that the newbie's question had done nothing more than draw attention to something that was .......beforehand ... an innocuous pastime. Now all of the sudden, since it's fresh in folks minds, they subconsciously start to see others they hadn't paid attention to before, and booting them. I have seen this played out again and again at different places.
I'm glad you got some yes's, and maybe you're batting 100% so far. I just know that I've seen it work the other way too.
1) You could just as easily have gotten a "no" (from a place where perhaps no one really cared or thought about it). I have heard equal # of stories of persons waltzing into city halls and park's dept. getting "no's" as well.
2) Whomever gave you the yes, was obviously ill-informed. I mean, depending on how you worded it, could get you a variety of answers. For instance, if you showed up with a shovel in your hand, and a printed-out copy of ARPA laws in the other hand, and asked "can I dig for buried treasure in the city parks?" what do you think their answer would have been? Also, don't forget to hand them a search and salvage agreement to sign, and hold-harmless contract, etc... Lest they not fully understand the impact of your question.
There was a state park campgrond near me (Santa Cruz, CA) that used to be detected routinely all the time. No one ever had a problem. Then one day, a friend of mine, a detector dealer, got booted! He was booted by a ranger who he'd seen before, but who had never stopped to talk before. Others too now were also getting booted. A week or so after this happened, he was talking to a fellow whom he'd sold a detector to a few weeks earlier. The newbie commented that he'd gone to that state park's entrance kiosk and asked "can I metal detect here?". The ranger on duty apparently had never given it thought before. So he tells the guy "hmm, lemme check". The ranger must've found some wording he though applied, like "don't disturb the vegetation" or "objects of antiquity", etc... and tells the guy "no". When my dealer friend heard the newbie telling him how he'd gotten a "no", he asked him "when did that occur?" When the compared dates, it became apparent that the bootings began right after the guy inquired! My friend couldn't help but feel that the newbie's question had done nothing more than draw attention to something that was .......beforehand ... an innocuous pastime. Now all of the sudden, since it's fresh in folks minds, they subconsciously start to see others they hadn't paid attention to before, and booting them. I have seen this played out again and again at different places.
I'm glad you got some yes's, and maybe you're batting 100% so far. I just know that I've seen it work the other way too.
jim cluster
New member
I went back to the Bradenton park today, for my birthday. I was going to use a guilt trip on them if they gave me flack. I stayed to the edges, away from people and had a really cool day. I got a 925 cross. and 76 coins. I guess the admin. forgot to address the problem.
If you ask permission you could create suspicion. If you ask permission the police and park people are forced to start thinking about it, even if they have seen hundreds of detectorists over the years and never cared. Park officials may ask themselves, why is this guy asking permission to detect, and, is their something about the hobby i should be concerned about. The first thing the park officials will think of are big sloppy holes. Even if their are no rules against digging its easier for park officials to say no than to look up the rules. Ounce you get a no from the park officials it could snowball in a bad way. These are just sum ideas. .....Good Hunting
Magicman
Member
The city manager and all the park rangers I have talked to have told me that anything I find I keep, all they would like is to document the items and take some pictures. It is a little different at county and state parks. Better off checking, then getting a ticket or landing in jail.