Find's Treasure Forums
Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!
You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.
Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.
Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.
Click here to register!
Need Support Help?
Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you
Minelab 13" Ultimate DD Detech coil
- Thread starter jspoon
- Start date
Critterhunter
New member
Do a search in this forum. I did a huge write up thread on this coil and so have others reported field reports on it. I like this coil, but it is more prone to EMI or minerals than the 12x10, and I'm not sure yet if it's as deep or deeper than 12x10. I do like it though. Even though the 12x10 without a coil cover is a bit lighter than the Ultimate with a coil cover, the Ultimate feels even lighter, and I would guess due to it's round shape for more distributed balance on the shaft. Not that the 12x10 is heavy though. Without a coil cover it's much lighter than the stock 10" Tornado, and even a full half ounce lighter than the S-12 without a coil cover as well.
So search for "Ultimate"....Do a 1 year search span. About 2 to 4 or 5 months far back you'll see a huge thread, and also a bunch of other field report threads to. The 15x12 I owned was too much of a duplication of the 12x10, so I will replace my loaner Ultimate with one of my own, as the 12x10 is my most every day coil, and after using that all the time I want some "strange", and that's the Ultimate over the 15x12 for wide open areas on land or beach where coverage is primary.
So search for "Ultimate"....Do a 1 year search span. About 2 to 4 or 5 months far back you'll see a huge thread, and also a bunch of other field report threads to. The 15x12 I owned was too much of a duplication of the 12x10, so I will replace my loaner Ultimate with one of my own, as the 12x10 is my most every day coil, and after using that all the time I want some "strange", and that's the Ultimate over the 15x12 for wide open areas on land or beach where coverage is primary.
deepdiger60
New member
Dont waist your money on the 13" it is a piece of crap on the beach as is the 12x10 they cant even come close in depth or seperation to the S-12 great beach coil second to the Tornado 10" !! . Jim
Critterhunter
New member
Deepdiger, the vast majority, on both FBS and BBS units, who have owned the 12x10 say it's better in all respects than both the 10" Tornado and the FBS Pro Coil. Either you had a bad coil or your minerals just rub the 12x10 the wrong way, but that would be a rarity since the 12x10 is known for handling both EMI and minerals much better with a smoother ride and higher sensitivity levels than all other coils it's been compared to. Stable as a rock, deeper, sharper more crisp tones, unbelieveable separation, etc...
So far the S-12 is showing me it's not as deep as the 12x10 or the Ultimate *in my soil*, and also seems to like to null instead of sound off at the first reaction to a fringed depth target until I gain about another half inch less depth on it. Never seen this happen before, and no...I'm not just basing this on my air test video, but also in my experience with it in the field against the 12x10. The S-12 seems to take much more effort to work up the proper ID/tone of a target at fringe depth when wiggling over it *for me, in my soil*.
The separation also, while I can't obviously "see" the DD line, doesn't seem nearly as sharp as the 12x10 or Ultimate. That's not necessarily a snub towards it, because the 12x10 is so laser like in how sharp the DD line is like no other coil I've ever owned. The Ultimate also seems rather sharp with it's DD line as well. The S-12? It's got more of a "broad" or "base" type audio report, which I suspect is due to the thicker DD line maybe? Like strumming a guitar with your finger versus a pick.
Again, not necessarily a snug, as some might prefer those audio characterists for their particular hearing. But I have noticed it takes more effort to wiggle up the proper ID/tone with the S-12 at depth. Does that mean it's less deep? Not necessarily. What I suspect is that maybe if the DD line is more broad like I feel it is to me, has me "out of tune" with how to time the width and speed of my short sweeping or Sovereign wiggle to work the best ID/tone out of a target at depth. The guitar pick thing maybe...
The Ultimate versus S-12? To me the S-12 is more like a conventional round DD, just bigger in size. Feels like I'm just using a bigger version of the 10" Tornado to me, which again ain't a snub, because the 10" Tornado is the best stock coil I ever owned. But on the other hand, the Ultimate is so unlike a conventional round DD in it's traits that that alone is reason enough for me to own one. It also feels much lighter, like the 12x10, to me on the shaft over the S-12, and I suspect it's due to the more backward mounting point of the S-12 of the shaft, because all 3 coils are very near each other in weight in various with or without coil cover configurations.
All these are great coils. You just have to figure out which one suits your particular needs and hunting style, and in particular too hearing preferences. The 12x10 is louder to my ears than the stock 10" coil or S-12 at depth. The Ultimate is even a bit louder at depth, but that doesn't mean it's deeper. Just louder. Still figuring out if it's as deep as the 12x10, but it for sure looks to be deeper in my soil than the 15x12 was. I like the more "crisp" "trebel like" audio of the 12x10 and the Ultimate. It seems to suit my ears better and gives me more notice of potential coins mixed in with a bunch of junk as I work a spot. No mistaking that extra sharp bark when these coils speak coin to me...
So far the S-12 is showing me it's not as deep as the 12x10 or the Ultimate *in my soil*, and also seems to like to null instead of sound off at the first reaction to a fringed depth target until I gain about another half inch less depth on it. Never seen this happen before, and no...I'm not just basing this on my air test video, but also in my experience with it in the field against the 12x10. The S-12 seems to take much more effort to work up the proper ID/tone of a target at fringe depth when wiggling over it *for me, in my soil*.
The separation also, while I can't obviously "see" the DD line, doesn't seem nearly as sharp as the 12x10 or Ultimate. That's not necessarily a snub towards it, because the 12x10 is so laser like in how sharp the DD line is like no other coil I've ever owned. The Ultimate also seems rather sharp with it's DD line as well. The S-12? It's got more of a "broad" or "base" type audio report, which I suspect is due to the thicker DD line maybe? Like strumming a guitar with your finger versus a pick.
Again, not necessarily a snug, as some might prefer those audio characterists for their particular hearing. But I have noticed it takes more effort to wiggle up the proper ID/tone with the S-12 at depth. Does that mean it's less deep? Not necessarily. What I suspect is that maybe if the DD line is more broad like I feel it is to me, has me "out of tune" with how to time the width and speed of my short sweeping or Sovereign wiggle to work the best ID/tone out of a target at depth. The guitar pick thing maybe...
The Ultimate versus S-12? To me the S-12 is more like a conventional round DD, just bigger in size. Feels like I'm just using a bigger version of the 10" Tornado to me, which again ain't a snub, because the 10" Tornado is the best stock coil I ever owned. But on the other hand, the Ultimate is so unlike a conventional round DD in it's traits that that alone is reason enough for me to own one. It also feels much lighter, like the 12x10, to me on the shaft over the S-12, and I suspect it's due to the more backward mounting point of the S-12 of the shaft, because all 3 coils are very near each other in weight in various with or without coil cover configurations.
All these are great coils. You just have to figure out which one suits your particular needs and hunting style, and in particular too hearing preferences. The 12x10 is louder to my ears than the stock 10" coil or S-12 at depth. The Ultimate is even a bit louder at depth, but that doesn't mean it's deeper. Just louder. Still figuring out if it's as deep as the 12x10, but it for sure looks to be deeper in my soil than the 15x12 was. I like the more "crisp" "trebel like" audio of the 12x10 and the Ultimate. It seems to suit my ears better and gives me more notice of potential coins mixed in with a bunch of junk as I work a spot. No mistaking that extra sharp bark when these coils speak coin to me...
Hi Critter, I read alot of your posts, very informative thanks! You mention "your soil" where are you located, I'm in CO and a few years ago I bought a whites 10" DD coil for my M6 and to my surprise I got better depth with the 9.5 stock coil so I sold the DD. I suspect my soil would be more mineralized in the mnts. but here on the front range I don't think so much? This gets confusing, WOT, Ultimate, S12, 1210... &^%#$@!
Thanks, HH all the way!
Thanks, HH all the way!
deepdiger60
New member
Critter there is nothing wrong with the 12x10 in fields works great best coil i had was on my DFX 12x10 ,with the GT in salt water or wet salt sand no way it,s terrible other people i know who had !! one on the ocean beaches out here said the same thing they sold the coil you need to get on a salt water beach and try your 12x10 then comment on it . JimCritterhunter said:
Critterhunter
New member
Many fans of the WOT coil for sure, especially on the beach or even in the water. S-12 also among Excal hunters too. I suspect both for good reason- round shape equals less drag in water than the squarish shape of the SEFs. I used my 15x12 and 12x10 in the water. Far more drag than the 10" Tornado. Ultimate coil isn't rated waterproof so I won't dare using my future one to replace my loaner in the water.
I like extra coverage in the water to insure I don't miss stuff and faster coverage since I can't always see the coil, so down the road I plan to pick up a used S-12 to replace my 10" Tornado in the water, but that'll be based on my continue field testing of the S-12 against the 10" Tornado depth/separation wise. I only use the 10" Tornado in the water because I prefer the 12x10 for all respects over the 10" Tornado on land. Not that the Tornado ain't the best stock coil I ever used on a machine. Fantastic coil. I just think the 12x10 steps all respects of performance up a notch over it for land hunting.
About the only other coils out there in the size class of the Ultimate, WOT, 12x10, 15x12, and S-12, would be the open framed Excelerator coils. If memory serves Detech (the makers of the SEFs/Ultimate) make those in 12.5" (matching the S-12 size wise), 14" (exact size?) to compete with the 14.25" WOT, and then a 16" (exact size?) and also I think an 18". However, those coils are no longer sold in the US (Kellyco is exclusive US outlet of Detech coils), and though they've been around far longer than the SEF coils, the Excelerators you hardly hear anything about, which to me might say something about them.
But, way I hear it for several years there were a version of these coils that weren't very stable, and then down the road they replaced them with an improved version they continue to sell. That newer version, if true, might very well do very good, but perhaps it had the odds stacked against it with the prior version turning people off? Still not sure about there being two versions but that's what I've heard. Also, how to tell the difference if there is? Not sure, but I think the newer ones say EQ2 or something on them, or maybe even Excelerator II on them? I have read of one guy who compared the S-12 to the 12" Excelerator and he said the weight was about the same and the Excelerator was equal in performance to him.
Only thing I can say of the S-12 compared to the 12x10 that I've heard from one beach hunter, is that they owned a few S-12s for years and then got a 12x10 and found in tests the SEF was more sensitive to fine gold. If I remember right they mentioned finding a thin gold chain they thought they'd never have hit with the S-12, and then compared them on some small stuff to see what is up. However, in my fine gold comparisons of various coils, I suspect there was no real difference between coil choice on items like tiny earings or thin chains. Not sure on that though until I finish editing the video to post.
I like extra coverage in the water to insure I don't miss stuff and faster coverage since I can't always see the coil, so down the road I plan to pick up a used S-12 to replace my 10" Tornado in the water, but that'll be based on my continue field testing of the S-12 against the 10" Tornado depth/separation wise. I only use the 10" Tornado in the water because I prefer the 12x10 for all respects over the 10" Tornado on land. Not that the Tornado ain't the best stock coil I ever used on a machine. Fantastic coil. I just think the 12x10 steps all respects of performance up a notch over it for land hunting.
About the only other coils out there in the size class of the Ultimate, WOT, 12x10, 15x12, and S-12, would be the open framed Excelerator coils. If memory serves Detech (the makers of the SEFs/Ultimate) make those in 12.5" (matching the S-12 size wise), 14" (exact size?) to compete with the 14.25" WOT, and then a 16" (exact size?) and also I think an 18". However, those coils are no longer sold in the US (Kellyco is exclusive US outlet of Detech coils), and though they've been around far longer than the SEF coils, the Excelerators you hardly hear anything about, which to me might say something about them.
But, way I hear it for several years there were a version of these coils that weren't very stable, and then down the road they replaced them with an improved version they continue to sell. That newer version, if true, might very well do very good, but perhaps it had the odds stacked against it with the prior version turning people off? Still not sure about there being two versions but that's what I've heard. Also, how to tell the difference if there is? Not sure, but I think the newer ones say EQ2 or something on them, or maybe even Excelerator II on them? I have read of one guy who compared the S-12 to the 12" Excelerator and he said the weight was about the same and the Excelerator was equal in performance to him.
Only thing I can say of the S-12 compared to the 12x10 that I've heard from one beach hunter, is that they owned a few S-12s for years and then got a 12x10 and found in tests the SEF was more sensitive to fine gold. If I remember right they mentioned finding a thin gold chain they thought they'd never have hit with the S-12, and then compared them on some small stuff to see what is up. However, in my fine gold comparisons of various coils, I suspect there was no real difference between coil choice on items like tiny earings or thin chains. Not sure on that though until I finish editing the video to post.
Critterhunter
New member
The sites I hunt tend to have one or all issues with ground matrix- Heavy limestone clay which is very mineralized, tons of microscopic iron washed into the soil, black sand or hot rocks, or other forms of mineralization. Not all sites have any of these, with some a combination of all or one or two. And I also have sites with great rich neutral black soil. As a whole though I'd say probably 75% of my sites have some form of mineralization that makes ground penetration an issue. All single frequency machines I ever owned above about 8khz got lousy depth and stability in my soil. Only a couple of my non-Minelab single frequency machines could muster about 7.5" max on a silver dime in my soil.
That's cake work for my GT, and even with the tiny 5.5" S-5 coil it's punched me a silver dime that deep with perfect/hard ID and tone. That's impressive to me. Imagine, a little coil getting as good of depth as a 8 to 10" coil on my non-Minelabs. Just blows my mind. What I'm hearing of the 7.25" Tornado getting 10" on a silver dime, at least in some people's soils, has me anxious to try it out.
By the way, post office said delivered to a friend's house yesterday according to my tracking #. She's always home so I wanted it sent there like I usually do with shipped items. Bad news then, because my friend got no mail or packages yesterday. Either the mail lady has it in her truck or somebody swiped my coil.
I suspect it's in her truck though. Just can't figure out why it'd say "delivery confirmed" if it wasn't? Here's hoping I get it today. I'm going to find that mail lady while she's on that street and ask what's up here. If it should be stole, what are my options then? Paid cash so credit card theft insurance won't help.
Just do this on coil choice- Rather than take any one of our words on which to opt for, do a search over the past few years in this forum. Ignore my posts because obviously I'm a big fan of the 12x10, and instead read that of others who have compared it to other coils. Most opinions are it's the best coil they ever used. Also, while seems most think the Ultimate is not as good as the 12x10 (I pretty much concur, but feel the Ultimate is unique in it's own way to own for other reasons), there are at least a few posts of WOT owners I think saying the Ultimate was better for them, and conversely posts saying the 12x10 was better for them than the Ultimate, so read into that chain of logical progression what you will...
All these coil picks are largely based on many things- personal hearing (coil choice can alter audio report), your particular soil (mineralization limits coil size), and how you hunt or what your after. Different tools for different jobs. With the right "tool" (coil), I feel any Minelab can out do the other, based on the proper tool for the proper site. When we are talking about any Minelab, GT included, these things are pretty much so maxed out in performance that to see any real edge in depth, stability, or separation (unmasking), one only need to look to proper coil choice for any given site for the day.
You don't try to cut a tomato with a butter knife (separation/unmasking, meaning use a small coil or one like the 12x10 with a razor sharp DD line), and you don't try to drive a post into the ground with a ball pean hammer. Instead, you'd use a sharp knife the the tomato, and a sledge hammer (bigger/deeper coil) for the post.
As for DD coils on the Whites, used the 10" a bit on a friend's M6...We both weren't impressed with that coil. In low minerals a concentric of the same size might have a slight edge over a DD at the very center of the coil, but in most soils, since most tend to have mineralization of some level, or at least in my soil...A DD of the same size as a concentric gets much deeper for me. More stable too, because it rides on and sucks up less ground than a concentric, and also isn't washing out the target at depth due to too much "ground stew". The coverage from tip to tail of a DD is also better, and due to the DD line nature of a DD, provided you are using a quality coil it'll outshine a concentric in left/right wise separation from shallow to deep. Concentrics tend to do their best separation near the deepest part of the field where it comes more to a "point". All these things aren't hard and fast rules though. Plenty of bad concentrics out there and plenty of bad DDs, and some of which can seem to have overlapping field characteristics of each other...
That's cake work for my GT, and even with the tiny 5.5" S-5 coil it's punched me a silver dime that deep with perfect/hard ID and tone. That's impressive to me. Imagine, a little coil getting as good of depth as a 8 to 10" coil on my non-Minelabs. Just blows my mind. What I'm hearing of the 7.25" Tornado getting 10" on a silver dime, at least in some people's soils, has me anxious to try it out.
By the way, post office said delivered to a friend's house yesterday according to my tracking #. She's always home so I wanted it sent there like I usually do with shipped items. Bad news then, because my friend got no mail or packages yesterday. Either the mail lady has it in her truck or somebody swiped my coil.
I suspect it's in her truck though. Just can't figure out why it'd say "delivery confirmed" if it wasn't? Here's hoping I get it today. I'm going to find that mail lady while she's on that street and ask what's up here. If it should be stole, what are my options then? Paid cash so credit card theft insurance won't help.Just do this on coil choice- Rather than take any one of our words on which to opt for, do a search over the past few years in this forum. Ignore my posts because obviously I'm a big fan of the 12x10, and instead read that of others who have compared it to other coils. Most opinions are it's the best coil they ever used. Also, while seems most think the Ultimate is not as good as the 12x10 (I pretty much concur, but feel the Ultimate is unique in it's own way to own for other reasons), there are at least a few posts of WOT owners I think saying the Ultimate was better for them, and conversely posts saying the 12x10 was better for them than the Ultimate, so read into that chain of logical progression what you will...
All these coil picks are largely based on many things- personal hearing (coil choice can alter audio report), your particular soil (mineralization limits coil size), and how you hunt or what your after. Different tools for different jobs. With the right "tool" (coil), I feel any Minelab can out do the other, based on the proper tool for the proper site. When we are talking about any Minelab, GT included, these things are pretty much so maxed out in performance that to see any real edge in depth, stability, or separation (unmasking), one only need to look to proper coil choice for any given site for the day.
You don't try to cut a tomato with a butter knife (separation/unmasking, meaning use a small coil or one like the 12x10 with a razor sharp DD line), and you don't try to drive a post into the ground with a ball pean hammer. Instead, you'd use a sharp knife the the tomato, and a sledge hammer (bigger/deeper coil) for the post.
As for DD coils on the Whites, used the 10" a bit on a friend's M6...We both weren't impressed with that coil. In low minerals a concentric of the same size might have a slight edge over a DD at the very center of the coil, but in most soils, since most tend to have mineralization of some level, or at least in my soil...A DD of the same size as a concentric gets much deeper for me. More stable too, because it rides on and sucks up less ground than a concentric, and also isn't washing out the target at depth due to too much "ground stew". The coverage from tip to tail of a DD is also better, and due to the DD line nature of a DD, provided you are using a quality coil it'll outshine a concentric in left/right wise separation from shallow to deep. Concentrics tend to do their best separation near the deepest part of the field where it comes more to a "point". All these things aren't hard and fast rules though. Plenty of bad concentrics out there and plenty of bad DDs, and some of which can seem to have overlapping field characteristics of each other...
Finderskeeper
Active member
I've owned all the coils mentioned here installed on my Excalibur II. I had the WOT and it was a great coil. I had the S-12 for a few days recently and it was OK..nothing stood out...It was on loan to me from a friend who was nice enough to let me use it on the beaches of Florida for a few days.... I wanted to see if there was anything better.
I then tried the 13 Ultimate. It is a good coil but not in the same league as the WOT. It is not too good in salt water (from what I have heard as I did not have it when in Florida) But it was prone to RFI around power lines and cell phone towers where I hunt in Ohio. So I sold it.
I then tried the 12 x 10 SEF. So far I would say that the SEF is the best of the bunch although not by a lot. The SEF I like just a tad more than the WOT especially in the salt water and salt sand. The SEF seems to be a bit more stable and I just have more confidence in it than any other coil I've used so far. I would put the SEF above the S-12 too. But that is just my opinion and yours may be different. I am keeping the 12 x 10 SEF and won't be changing anytime soon.
What is the deepest of them? Who knows! Everyone is scurrying around trying to find the deepest coil. Depth is so dependent on so many things that change from place to place and day to day and even minute by minute. I've been to beaches that in one spot was perfect for a coil and machine and then move just a bit down the beach and then started thinking that this coil or this machine is just not very good. So generalization is probably the best way to rate a coil. Will it perform in most places with a certain machine.
So using that logic, the SEF 12 x 10 gets my nod as the best of those mentioned. I've found it to be more stable in more areas and performs where I hunt the best. Of course, that is just my opinion and may not be yours. You may hunt in an area that the SEF and my machine may be a bad choice. Like I said, there are just too many variables to make a blanket statement about which coil is best. Maybe the answer is to have several coils to match the areas that you hunt?
I then tried the 13 Ultimate. It is a good coil but not in the same league as the WOT. It is not too good in salt water (from what I have heard as I did not have it when in Florida) But it was prone to RFI around power lines and cell phone towers where I hunt in Ohio. So I sold it.
I then tried the 12 x 10 SEF. So far I would say that the SEF is the best of the bunch although not by a lot. The SEF I like just a tad more than the WOT especially in the salt water and salt sand. The SEF seems to be a bit more stable and I just have more confidence in it than any other coil I've used so far. I would put the SEF above the S-12 too. But that is just my opinion and yours may be different. I am keeping the 12 x 10 SEF and won't be changing anytime soon.
What is the deepest of them? Who knows! Everyone is scurrying around trying to find the deepest coil. Depth is so dependent on so many things that change from place to place and day to day and even minute by minute. I've been to beaches that in one spot was perfect for a coil and machine and then move just a bit down the beach and then started thinking that this coil or this machine is just not very good. So generalization is probably the best way to rate a coil. Will it perform in most places with a certain machine.
So using that logic, the SEF 12 x 10 gets my nod as the best of those mentioned. I've found it to be more stable in more areas and performs where I hunt the best. Of course, that is just my opinion and may not be yours. You may hunt in an area that the SEF and my machine may be a bad choice. Like I said, there are just too many variables to make a blanket statement about which coil is best. Maybe the answer is to have several coils to match the areas that you hunt?
Critterhunter
New member
I thought it was you (?) that I remember said you liked the 13" Ultimate much more than the WOT, and had found stuff at spots that the WOT worked first, remarking that newer technology in coil design sure does show with the Ultimate over it? If I have that in error then I apologize, because then obviously it was somebody else on here that had posted those field reports with it to contrast to their WOT. I'm not very good at remembering names so all on me here if so. 
If so, what made you change your mind of the Ultimate versus the WOT in some respects? Just curious.
I could see where if were primarily hunting beaches, I wouldn't see much advantage of the 12x10 over say a WOT or S-12 or even the 15x12 I owned before, because then it's more about just coverage and stability, where the 12x10 might be better in stability and still a nice improvement over the stock 10" coil, but not really showing it's stuff in terms of what it can do with that razor sharp DD line it has. I mostly hunt soil sites in trashy areas, and in that case I can really see a contrast of left/right separation abilitiy of the 12x10 over other coils I've used. The stability of it around EMI and in heavy ground minerals is also something that I really notice in some situations compared to other coils. More often than not the 12x10 allows me to run full blast manual sensitivity, where as when I've swapped to other coils (stock 10" included) at the same site/same day they often wouldn't allow nearly that high of sensitivity settings due to either EMI, minerals, or both in some situations.
But the 13" Ultimate? To me owning my prior 15x12 wouldn't be worth it due to it duplicating my 12x10 too much. Kind'a like having two somewhat identical cars in the driveway when it's much more useful and interesting to own a car and a truck for given situations. That's the way I look at wanting an Ultimate to replace the loaner I had, because it's so unlike any other coil in certain traits. So are the SEFs, obviously just based on their unique shape alone, but even being a round coil the Ultimate is very unlike conventional round coils to me such as the S-12 or the 10" Tornado. It's just very "different" from all others, just like the SEFs are, but both in their own unique ways.
I already know it's a good coil at finding coins on edge, just like the SEFs are, but mainly I just like the feel of the Ultimate on the shaft for a coil that big and it's even more effortless coverage in large areas when gridding without having to hold my steps back as much. Yes, the 12x10 helps in that respect, and the 15x12 even more so, but the Ultimate just "feels even more right" in terms of balance and coverage. Not saying though the SEFs are heavy or unbalanced. Just that the Ultimate is a tad more "right" feeling seeing that big white coil at the end of the shaft and just not feeling what you see.
The 12x10 without a coil cover is even lighter than the Ultimate, but just the same the Ultimate, I would guess due to it's round shaped balanced at the end of the shaft, just feels even more "effortless" to use than the SEFs due in that respect on the shaft. Yea though, the Ultimate takes more work to position myself among trash to isolate a target to look at, due to it's round shape versus the SEF's. Still not even sure the Ultimate is as deep as the 12x10 but I do think it's deeper than my 15x12 was on coin/ring sized targets *in my soil*.
If so, what made you change your mind of the Ultimate versus the WOT in some respects? Just curious.I could see where if were primarily hunting beaches, I wouldn't see much advantage of the 12x10 over say a WOT or S-12 or even the 15x12 I owned before, because then it's more about just coverage and stability, where the 12x10 might be better in stability and still a nice improvement over the stock 10" coil, but not really showing it's stuff in terms of what it can do with that razor sharp DD line it has. I mostly hunt soil sites in trashy areas, and in that case I can really see a contrast of left/right separation abilitiy of the 12x10 over other coils I've used. The stability of it around EMI and in heavy ground minerals is also something that I really notice in some situations compared to other coils. More often than not the 12x10 allows me to run full blast manual sensitivity, where as when I've swapped to other coils (stock 10" included) at the same site/same day they often wouldn't allow nearly that high of sensitivity settings due to either EMI, minerals, or both in some situations.
But the 13" Ultimate? To me owning my prior 15x12 wouldn't be worth it due to it duplicating my 12x10 too much. Kind'a like having two somewhat identical cars in the driveway when it's much more useful and interesting to own a car and a truck for given situations. That's the way I look at wanting an Ultimate to replace the loaner I had, because it's so unlike any other coil in certain traits. So are the SEFs, obviously just based on their unique shape alone, but even being a round coil the Ultimate is very unlike conventional round coils to me such as the S-12 or the 10" Tornado. It's just very "different" from all others, just like the SEFs are, but both in their own unique ways.
I already know it's a good coil at finding coins on edge, just like the SEFs are, but mainly I just like the feel of the Ultimate on the shaft for a coil that big and it's even more effortless coverage in large areas when gridding without having to hold my steps back as much. Yes, the 12x10 helps in that respect, and the 15x12 even more so, but the Ultimate just "feels even more right" in terms of balance and coverage. Not saying though the SEFs are heavy or unbalanced. Just that the Ultimate is a tad more "right" feeling seeing that big white coil at the end of the shaft and just not feeling what you see.
The 12x10 without a coil cover is even lighter than the Ultimate, but just the same the Ultimate, I would guess due to it's round shaped balanced at the end of the shaft, just feels even more "effortless" to use than the SEFs due in that respect on the shaft. Yea though, the Ultimate takes more work to position myself among trash to isolate a target to look at, due to it's round shape versus the SEF's. Still not even sure the Ultimate is as deep as the 12x10 but I do think it's deeper than my 15x12 was on coin/ring sized targets *in my soil*.
Finderskeeper
Active member
Yes, at first I did like the 13 Ultimate a lot until I started getting RFI and then it sort of fell out of favor with me. At some areas, it outperformed the WOT and then when it got squirrelly on me when I was near power lines or cell phone towers, or wherever RFI was present, I started to think it maybe was a mistake getting it. I first thought it was the detector and then found that the 13 is just too sensitive to RFI and I hunt in a lot of areas that have it. I switched back to the factory 10 inch and the problems went away. The 13 is just too unstable for me. When it worked, it was an awesome coil!
After using it for several months at many other different areas, I discovered that it was a PITA to use while guessing where RFI would be.
The SEF 10x12 on the other hand, it very stable and I like it a lot. I am just more comfortable with it and it seems to be the right coil for me. I originally got the 13 Ultimate because the 10x12 was not available as they were supposedly being phased out. So I got the Ultimate thinking that it would be as good as the 10x12 or better. At the time, the 10x12 had tons of good reports and the 13 had very few. Kellyco had some 10x12's come in so I got one.
After using the 13 for several months, I found that what was starting to be reported of instability by others was indeed the case. That and the poor reports on wet salt sand and salt water sealed its fate with me. Sold it on E-bay.
My preferences on coils right now in order of performance in my areas that I hunt:
10x12 SEF
WOT
13 Ultimate
The 13 may be a good choice for many people. Just not the right one for me!
After using it for several months at many other different areas, I discovered that it was a PITA to use while guessing where RFI would be.
The SEF 10x12 on the other hand, it very stable and I like it a lot. I am just more comfortable with it and it seems to be the right coil for me. I originally got the 13 Ultimate because the 10x12 was not available as they were supposedly being phased out. So I got the Ultimate thinking that it would be as good as the 10x12 or better. At the time, the 10x12 had tons of good reports and the 13 had very few. Kellyco had some 10x12's come in so I got one.
After using the 13 for several months, I found that what was starting to be reported of instability by others was indeed the case. That and the poor reports on wet salt sand and salt water sealed its fate with me. Sold it on E-bay.
My preferences on coils right now in order of performance in my areas that I hunt:
10x12 SEF
WOT
13 Ultimate
The 13 may be a good choice for many people. Just not the right one for me!
Critterhunter
New member
First, after re-reading my post today, it might have sounded a bit coy or trying to catch you in a "gotcha" moment. Not my intent at all, and I apologize if it has overtones of that. I simply was curious, if you were the one I remember comparing the Ultimate to your WOT a while back, why you changed your views a bit on the comparison of the two.
Thanks for the excellent insight as to your thinking process of the two. I enjoy deeply reading others perspectives on machines and coils, just to gauge their opinion and reflect on it in contrast to my own. I'd say I pretty much agree with your summary of the Ultimate- It's more prone to EMI or minerals than some other coils. Having not used the WOT yet, I can't contrast the two in comparison for me, so I'm highly interested in the views/opinions of others on that.
Yes, in say a front yard for me I found the Ultimate was fussy, although not beyond expectations for a coil of it's size, and still I feel it will have a place in my line up to replace the loaner I had, by using it in low EMI environments, which just happens to be my intent for it- wide open fields or beaches, which usually means far from EMI sources for me then.
I had used the Ultimate in a few front yards and found it a handful to adjust sensitivity for stable operation, and even in a low EMI testing site where I always take coils or machines for some air testing, I found that while all other coils compared would run at full stable sensitivity without chatter, the Ultimate at full was just a tad unstable. Not beyond the point of being able to use it, because that slight edge of instability is where I like to ride a coil much of the time, but just the same it was a bit "falsey".
In various sites of low EMI, when swapping between the Ultimate and 12x10 to go head to head on marked undugged targets (poker chips work great for this, but be careful some will cause a machine to null out for some reason...metals or minerals?), I'd often find the Ultimate would have to be lowered a good bit more than the 12x10 to stop it from nulling on ground minerals as I sweeped. That tells me it suffers from both EMI and mineralization more than the 12x10. But then, all in perspective to a coil of it's size. In my soil I would expect a larger coil to start having issues with sucking up too much ground signal for a machine to handle as well.
One thing about the Ultimate, which I haven't tested yet with the 12x10, is that rarely have I used PP mode to PP targets on land until as of late. So usually when I set my machine down to dig a target it's still in disc mode. But, anyway...Had the Ultimate in PP since I used that to PP a target for once, and then when I laid it down I found my digger all the way behind the back end of the shaft was sounding off easily in full volume PP mode and sensitivity only as high as was stable for disc (while they say you can usually run full blast sensitivity in PP mode regardless of minerals). I even pointed the digger directly at the coil so as to present somewhat less of a profile for it to see, and yet it was very easy to hear it waving it about a half foot or so back behind the end of the shaft.
That kind'a blew my mind, and I thought "what fantastic potential for say cache or larger relic/civil war type hunting!" Now, I'm sure PP won't achieve those depths in the ground probably on a similar sized target, but just the same I'm a tall guy so the light weight shaft I built for my GT land rig is rather long. I could see where just wearing a belt buckle or having any other metal objects on one's person as they move while hunting might cause falsing with this coil. I haven't yet tried the 12x10 in PP mode and full volume with the digger behind the shaft like this to judge it's abilities as well, but at least in air tests at full sensitivity on a dime the 12x10 shows me about a half inch more depth than the Ultimate, so I wouldn't be surprised if it gets equal or even better PP depth on a large metal object.
Again, thanks for your insight. One of the things I'm greatly looking forward to is Earthlypotluck's comparison of the S-5 to his 8" Tornado and the Coinsearch coil. I want to hear how he thinks all three of these coils stack up against each other in both depth and separation abilities. His old coin garden might be a great place to start...(hint hint)...
Thanks for the excellent insight as to your thinking process of the two. I enjoy deeply reading others perspectives on machines and coils, just to gauge their opinion and reflect on it in contrast to my own. I'd say I pretty much agree with your summary of the Ultimate- It's more prone to EMI or minerals than some other coils. Having not used the WOT yet, I can't contrast the two in comparison for me, so I'm highly interested in the views/opinions of others on that.
Yes, in say a front yard for me I found the Ultimate was fussy, although not beyond expectations for a coil of it's size, and still I feel it will have a place in my line up to replace the loaner I had, by using it in low EMI environments, which just happens to be my intent for it- wide open fields or beaches, which usually means far from EMI sources for me then.
I had used the Ultimate in a few front yards and found it a handful to adjust sensitivity for stable operation, and even in a low EMI testing site where I always take coils or machines for some air testing, I found that while all other coils compared would run at full stable sensitivity without chatter, the Ultimate at full was just a tad unstable. Not beyond the point of being able to use it, because that slight edge of instability is where I like to ride a coil much of the time, but just the same it was a bit "falsey".
In various sites of low EMI, when swapping between the Ultimate and 12x10 to go head to head on marked undugged targets (poker chips work great for this, but be careful some will cause a machine to null out for some reason...metals or minerals?), I'd often find the Ultimate would have to be lowered a good bit more than the 12x10 to stop it from nulling on ground minerals as I sweeped. That tells me it suffers from both EMI and mineralization more than the 12x10. But then, all in perspective to a coil of it's size. In my soil I would expect a larger coil to start having issues with sucking up too much ground signal for a machine to handle as well.
One thing about the Ultimate, which I haven't tested yet with the 12x10, is that rarely have I used PP mode to PP targets on land until as of late. So usually when I set my machine down to dig a target it's still in disc mode. But, anyway...Had the Ultimate in PP since I used that to PP a target for once, and then when I laid it down I found my digger all the way behind the back end of the shaft was sounding off easily in full volume PP mode and sensitivity only as high as was stable for disc (while they say you can usually run full blast sensitivity in PP mode regardless of minerals). I even pointed the digger directly at the coil so as to present somewhat less of a profile for it to see, and yet it was very easy to hear it waving it about a half foot or so back behind the end of the shaft.
That kind'a blew my mind, and I thought "what fantastic potential for say cache or larger relic/civil war type hunting!" Now, I'm sure PP won't achieve those depths in the ground probably on a similar sized target, but just the same I'm a tall guy so the light weight shaft I built for my GT land rig is rather long. I could see where just wearing a belt buckle or having any other metal objects on one's person as they move while hunting might cause falsing with this coil. I haven't yet tried the 12x10 in PP mode and full volume with the digger behind the shaft like this to judge it's abilities as well, but at least in air tests at full sensitivity on a dime the 12x10 shows me about a half inch more depth than the Ultimate, so I wouldn't be surprised if it gets equal or even better PP depth on a large metal object.
Again, thanks for your insight. One of the things I'm greatly looking forward to is Earthlypotluck's comparison of the S-5 to his 8" Tornado and the Coinsearch coil. I want to hear how he thinks all three of these coils stack up against each other in both depth and separation abilities. His old coin garden might be a great place to start...(hint hint)...
Critterhunter
New member
First, after re-reading my post today, it might have sounded a bit coy or trying to catch you in a "gotcha" moment. Not my intent at all, and I apologize if it has overtones of that. I simply was curious, if you were the one I remember comparing the Ultimate to your WOT a while back, why you changed your views a bit on the comparison of the two.
Thanks for the excellent insight as to your thinking process of the two. I enjoy deeply reading others perspectives on machines and coils, just to gauge their opinion and reflect on it in contrast to my own. I'd say I pretty much agree with your summary of the Ultimate- It's more prone to EMI or minerals than some other coils. Having not used the WOT yet, I can't contrast the two in comparison for me, so I'm highly interested in the views/opinions of others on that.
Yes, in say a front yard for me I found the Ultimate was fussy, although not beyond expectations for a coil of it's size, and still I feel it will have a place in my line up to replace the loaner I had, by using it in low EMI environments, which just happens to be my intent for it- wide open fields or beaches, which usually means far from EMI sources for me then.
I had used the Ultimate in a few front yards and found it a handful to adjust sensitivity for stable operation, and even in a low EMI testing site where I always take coils or machines for some air testing, I found that while all other coils compared would run at full stable sensitivity without chatter, the Ultimate at full was just a tad unstable. Not beyond the point of being able to use it, because that slight edge of instability is where I like to ride a coil much of the time, but just the same it was a bit "falsey".
In various sites of low EMI, when swapping between the Ultimate and 12x10 to go head to head on marked undugged targets (poker chips work great for this, but be careful some will cause a machine to null out for some reason...metals or minerals?), I'd often find the Ultimate would have to be lowered a good bit more than the 12x10 to stop it from nulling on ground minerals as I sweeped. That tells me it suffers from both EMI and mineralization more than the 12x10. But then, all in perspective to a coil of it's size. In my soil I would expect a larger coil to start having issues with sucking up too much ground signal for a machine to handle as well.
One thing about the Ultimate, which I haven't tested yet with the 12x10, is that rarely have I used PP mode to PP targets on land until as of late. So usually when I set my machine down to dig a target it's still in disc mode. But, anyway...Had the Ultimate in PP since I used that to PP a target for once, and then when I laid it down I found my digger all the way behind the back end of the shaft was sounding off easily in full volume PP mode and sensitivity only as high as was stable for disc (while they say you can usually run full blast sensitivity in PP mode regardless of minerals). I even pointed the digger directly at the coil so as to present somewhat less of a profile for it to see, and yet it was very easy to hear it waving it about a half foot or so back behind the end of the shaft.
That kind'a blew my mind, and I thought "what fantastic potential for say cache or larger relic/civil war type hunting!" Now, I'm sure PP won't achieve those depths in the ground probably on a similar sized target, but just the same I'm a tall guy so the light weight shaft I built for my GT land rig is rather long. I could see where just wearing a belt buckle or having any other metal objects on one's person as they move while hunting might cause falsing with this coil. I haven't yet tried the 12x10 in PP mode and full volume with the digger behind the shaft like this to judge it's abilities as well, but at least in air tests at full sensitivity on a dime the 12x10 shows me about a half inch more depth than the Ultimate, so I wouldn't be surprised if it gets equal or even better PP depth on a large metal object.
Again, thanks for your insight. One of the things I'm greatly looking forward to is Earthlypotluck's comparison of the S-5 to his 8" Tornado and the Coinsearch coil. I want to hear how he thinks all three of these coils stack up against each other in both depth and separation abilities. His old coin garden might be a great place to start...(hint hint)...
Thanks for the excellent insight as to your thinking process of the two. I enjoy deeply reading others perspectives on machines and coils, just to gauge their opinion and reflect on it in contrast to my own. I'd say I pretty much agree with your summary of the Ultimate- It's more prone to EMI or minerals than some other coils. Having not used the WOT yet, I can't contrast the two in comparison for me, so I'm highly interested in the views/opinions of others on that.
Yes, in say a front yard for me I found the Ultimate was fussy, although not beyond expectations for a coil of it's size, and still I feel it will have a place in my line up to replace the loaner I had, by using it in low EMI environments, which just happens to be my intent for it- wide open fields or beaches, which usually means far from EMI sources for me then.
I had used the Ultimate in a few front yards and found it a handful to adjust sensitivity for stable operation, and even in a low EMI testing site where I always take coils or machines for some air testing, I found that while all other coils compared would run at full stable sensitivity without chatter, the Ultimate at full was just a tad unstable. Not beyond the point of being able to use it, because that slight edge of instability is where I like to ride a coil much of the time, but just the same it was a bit "falsey".
In various sites of low EMI, when swapping between the Ultimate and 12x10 to go head to head on marked undugged targets (poker chips work great for this, but be careful some will cause a machine to null out for some reason...metals or minerals?), I'd often find the Ultimate would have to be lowered a good bit more than the 12x10 to stop it from nulling on ground minerals as I sweeped. That tells me it suffers from both EMI and mineralization more than the 12x10. But then, all in perspective to a coil of it's size. In my soil I would expect a larger coil to start having issues with sucking up too much ground signal for a machine to handle as well.
One thing about the Ultimate, which I haven't tested yet with the 12x10, is that rarely have I used PP mode to PP targets on land until as of late. So usually when I set my machine down to dig a target it's still in disc mode. But, anyway...Had the Ultimate in PP since I used that to PP a target for once, and then when I laid it down I found my digger all the way behind the back end of the shaft was sounding off easily in full volume PP mode and sensitivity only as high as was stable for disc (while they say you can usually run full blast sensitivity in PP mode regardless of minerals). I even pointed the digger directly at the coil so as to present somewhat less of a profile for it to see, and yet it was very easy to hear it waving it about a half foot or so back behind the end of the shaft.
That kind'a blew my mind, and I thought "what fantastic potential for say cache or larger relic/civil war type hunting!" Now, I'm sure PP won't achieve those depths in the ground probably on a similar sized target, but just the same I'm a tall guy so the light weight shaft I built for my GT land rig is rather long. I could see where just wearing a belt buckle or having any other metal objects on one's person as they move while hunting might cause falsing with this coil. I haven't yet tried the 12x10 in PP mode and full volume with the digger behind the shaft like this to judge it's abilities as well, but at least in air tests at full sensitivity on a dime the 12x10 shows me about a half inch more depth than the Ultimate, so I wouldn't be surprised if it gets equal or even better PP depth on a large metal object.
Again, thanks for your insight. One of the things I'm greatly looking forward to is Earthlypotluck's comparison of the S-5 to his 8" Tornado and the Coinsearch coil. I want to hear how he thinks all three of these coils stack up against each other in both depth and separation abilities. His old coin garden might be a great place to start...(hint hint)...