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ML suing XP

norvic

New member
What can we, as customers, do to these manufacturers to send a message if we feel this is not quite right? I have and love both of their products.
 
norvic said:
What can we, as customers, do to these manufacturers to send a message if we feel this is not quite right? I have and love both of their products.

What's not right about it? If XP infringed on Minelabs patents then Minelab has the right to pursue legal action,,,period. A court and jury will decide , if you don't feel the action is "right" then don't buy their products.
It's business.
 
Seems like a flimsy case: http://md-hunter.com/minelab-sues-xp-the-war-between-manufacturers/

Why hasn't Minelab countered with a NEW MACHINE, since the Deus has been out for more than 5 years now?

It's funny how an AUS company is suing a FRE company in the USA....figure that one out! :clapping:
 
Coincidentally, I just found a plate for the Selden Patent of November 5, 1895. In researching it I discovered the fascinating story of the first patent troll case. George Selden was a patent attorney/inventor who filed a patent in 1877 for a small carriage powered by gasoline engine. He proceeded to try and force every manufacturer of automobiles pay him royalties. Henry Ford refused and sued. After seven years of courtroom warfare Ford prevailed and the rest is history (actually it all is). Selden never made a production vehicle and when the court forced him to produce a prototype it was total crap. People are still using his patent troll model to mine profits and inhibit competitive product advancement over a century later.
 
This may be the reason for the V4 delay??
 
It was a "flimsy" case against White's also but they paid up instead of fighting it,,,,same patent.
I suspect Minelab could have sued XP successfully back when they first introduced the Deus(wireless data handling) but deferred until XP decided to try and take market in the gold detecting area from them. Codan just waited until the XP cherry was ripe for plucking with 5 years of profitable sales and a new product coming out that is designed for the gold fields. I have both detector products but if I had to invest in one company or the other , it would be Codan.
 
I know one thing is if this all turns out to be some sham job by minelab to slow down XP, my CTX 3030 will be the last machine I buy from them. The wireless tech for the 3030 is not even close to the XP imo. If they did infringe on minelab patent then I understand but if not I will loose all respect for them.
 
Just read the complaint on pennrecord stating that XP is manufacturing and selling metal detectors that can store data, allowing them to be upgraded which is infringing on minelab patent. So this is why the delay on the version 4.0? As far as I know XP has had a couple of download upgraded since it came out in 2009. Has minelab ever did an upgrade download to any of there machines? The judge is probably going to laugh at them.
 
I doubt the V4 is delayed by the suit and suspect XP honestly found some flies in the ointment before they released the upgrade,,,otherwise they would be guilty of simply lying to the public through their surrogates/dealers , which I doubt is the case. Minelab is most likely hoping the upgrade and new products are a raging success as it will be a bigger pot to pick in. They proved their data transfer capabilities in 2012 when they updated the CTX but I think that is the only occasion. Minelab has precedent , I don't think the judge or jury(if they get it) will be laughing.
 
The CTX was just released in 2012, the Deus in 2009 a full three years before minelab nade a machine with upgrade via Internet capabilities. Unless minelab has another machine that can be upgraded via the Internet that came out before the Deus?
 
When the CTX came out is irrelevant .
The patent in question was issued in 2007 if I remember correctly.
Etrac has data transfer capabilities as well.
XP is in deep do do , I doubt corporate Minelab would spend the big bucks for these attorneys if they didn't have the goods.
 
sprchng said:
norvic said:
What can we, as customers, do to these manufacturers to send a message if we feel this is not quite right? I have and love both of their products.

What's not right about it? If XP infringed on Minelabs patents then Minelab has the right to pursue legal action,,,period. A court and jury will decide , if you don't feel the action is "right" then don't buy their products.
It's business.

True, tis a dog eat dog world. Minelab being a Public Company anyone can buy shares in, whereas XP appears to be a Private Company from my brief search, if this is so probably has a much larger shareholder number to pay the court bill and compensation should they win. As we are customers of either one manufacturer or the other or both. We probably have more numbers then manufactures but that has no influence on the courts outcome but it does on the bigger court, the market place. Maybe by just voicing our opinions and our reaction (to what this will probably do to XP and their innovative product if they take Whites way) here might have some influence on the manufacturer, probably zilch on the court, except if a jury member is a member of a detecting forum.

Makes you wonder a bit for sure V4 delayed around same time as the suing filed, What innovation is contained in Ver4 that threatens Minelab, why didn`t they use it themselves?
 
The Deus has been out since 2009 and minelab hasn't done anything til the eve of the launch of ver 4.0. There must be something in the new gold program they are worried might infringe on the market share they have held strong for so long. Gold prospecting etc. If they can't go after the tech maybe the way they are bringing the tech to the Deus owners is the only way
 
Regardless of what rumors are being postulated, a few things on this thread:

1) V4.0 is delayed due to performance issues that came up at he last minute - saw them at the XP Rally in the UK and Alain is doing the right thing - holding off the release until the issue is corrected. Has nothing to do with some claimed suit which has nothing to do with the pending V4.0 functionality or HF coils.

2) The technology that XP has on the Deus was introduced in 2009 . .. that is 7 years ago. If there was something that XP "stole" from Minelab don't you think something would have come up before XP took over the majority of the market . . . sort of the proverbial "close the barn door after the horses left" no? As far as data transfer - (the 2 way option), Minelab did not set the precedent . . . 2009 comes before 2012 so if anyone claims that the 2-way transfer for software updating was copied, it would be XP claiming Minelab took it from them.

It's interesting that for for years people have posted Minelab patents and claimed that they could reverse engineer the FBS or any other program that Minelab produces. Minelab in fact does not patent all of their code since that would make it fairly easy to alter and make other detectors. There is a reason Apple does not patent all of the OS code - to patent something you need to expose the inner workings and if you are familiar with digital copyright suits, a slight change in the code makes it something that is no longer infringement.

XP will continue pushing the envelope in terms of technology . . . . and it's doubtful it will be done by copying someone else's product.

Andy
 
Thank you Andy, my thoughts exactly.
 
Here is what I understand is the patent in question that Minelab feels XP has infringed upon enough to allegedly sue over: https://www.google.com/patents/US7310586
You can see it predates the Deus significantly so the 2009 date simply reinforces Minelab claims.
Corporate leadership at Minelab changed in that time period.
They probably saw no sense in sticking a fork in what they saw brewing until it was done.:drool:
 
This has to get tossed. Every device we have gets software updates. You can't have a patent on how software gets updated, only the software itself...M2Cts
 
ArnieTX said:
This has to get tossed. Every device we have gets software updates. You can't have a patent on how software gets updated, only the software itself...M2Cts

Who else has an update-able detector besides Minelab , who owns the patent and the idea , and White's (V3i) and XP Deus?
White's paid up and I suspect XP will have to also. That's what patent protection is all about. Pay to use it or pay the price. Might be why Garrett , First Texas , Tesoro , et al don't offer the option on their machines.

Look at it as a win-win for those who own a Deus. Xp will have to raise the cost of their detectors to pay the premium on their future liability insurance , which is what will actually pay the settlement to Minelab. They will also have to cut Minelab in for a piece of their Deus sales , again raising it's price. Those in the U.S. who already own machines will get to recoup some of the value they have lost when the Euro was devalued against our dollar.

It won't break my heart to see the value of used machines go up.:)
 
White's has an updateable detector . . . White's, really? What White's paid Minelab for was not the ability to transfer information between a detector and computer . . . care to guess how development works on detectors? Information / data is transferred back and forth between a computer and the chip and when ready for market, the ePROM is burnt and the unit produced.

There seems to be an undertone of glee that someone is getting sued and done so for a reason that makes no sense based on the supposed technology that Minelab patented. Maybe Ford should patent a truck that runs on Shell gas and then sue other manufacturers that opt to use the same gas?

The comment that Minelab waited for the gold market to be attacked . . . guess what? XP has been selling a modified Deus and other units in the gold fields for years already . . . . or is that piece not known? The Gold Field program on the V3.X Deus was adopted from the version that had already been sold in Africa . . . . so that is not the basis for the supposed claim of a suit.

I guess I need a class on time management since I barely get done what I need to let alone surfing the web for patents that do not apply to issues that are not understood.

Based on my interactions with the XP team I would be extremely surprised to see that any patents had not been reviewed in advance and no infringements made.

Andy
 
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