More on Manual verses Auto....

[Ray-Mo.]

I have several places here in south west MO that I would like to see anyone hunt in 28-29 manual without serious problems.What works well at one site or area may very well be nearly useless at another area.That is why I hesitate to post my settings when posting finds or lack there of.I have some sites that any thing over 20 manual is out of the question unless you just want to hear a constant,solid garbled blast of beeps,pops and crackles .I think one of the most common problems many people have with a new machine is to crank the sensitivity way up like the so called pros do and are unable to manage the results.It is far better to start in auto or lower manual settings and work your way up to max. usable sens. as you gain experience with and understanding of what your new machine is telling or not telling you regardless of brand or model.
I wonder if any of you have noticed the when running in auto +3 at a given number and then switch over to the same number in manual ?I have tried this many times and almost without exception the E-Trac will get noisier with more falseing and become less stable.Not by a large margin but enough to be noticed,Ray.

 

[moseng]

Thanks Ray. Couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[Chris(SoCenWI)]

I can hardly ever run in 28-29 manual unless I'm way out in the boondocks. Many times in town have to turn it down to to under 15 or so to get a usable machine. And depth DOES suffer. Even though the area is just as old and there should have been much more traffic over the years as opposed to many sites out in the boonies, I seldom find as many old coins or dig as many deepies. If it is construction and they come and scrape a few inches of soil- then the deepies appear. (And yes this is both due to trash removal more than raw depth)

The point is if I had to turn it down to 15 manual to get a usable, though jittery machine, my experience has shown that in Auto the explorer turned it down even farther than that, maybe way lower. We've been saying for years that the machine sacrificed depth for stability.

And all this was pretty much guess work until the ETRAC came out, now it displays the suggested Auto sensitivity. From what was posted earlier by Minelab the sensitivity algorithm works the same in the ETRAC as the older models, but just displays and gives the tweak below/above options.

From what I've seen posted most people that have played with this have seen the Auto level is running less than what they can run in manual, though your results seem to suggest differently.

I agree with you that cranked to the verge of stability is not the place for beginners to start out.

The biggest point is that the machine turns down the sensitivity in regions of high electrical interference. That is why in town we generally can run less hot than out. But.. I'm not sure that the detector is smart enough to be able to differentiate between noise caused by power lines and the noise of zillions of targets in the trash infested areas we tend to hunt. Which means the detector could be desensitizing itself way too much in trashy areas. I know I have experimented with both and have had times when I had a silky smooth threshold in Auto when wading through piles of trash. And didn't find anything until I went back over in manual.

I believe Auto does work quite well, otherwise we would not be debating this for almost a decade. It's kind of like the ferrous/conductive camps.

Bottom line some people seem to like seeing a 26 or so displayed in the sensitivity box. But if they are running in Auto this is a "Feel Good" number only. They may really be running at 11 most of the time and don't realize it. And if they switched over to manual they might be able to bump it up to 17-20 or so. Nothing wrong with that as long as one realizes the bigger number you are seeing in auto doesn't mean that much.

Chris

 

[Ray-Mo.]

Bottom line some people seem to like seeing a 26 or so displayed in the sensitivity box. But if they are running in Auto this is a "Feel Good" number only. They may really be running at 11 most of the time and don't realize it. And if they switched over to manual they might be able to bump it up to 17-20 or so. Nothing wrong with that as long as one realizes the bigger number you are seeing in auto doesn't mean that much.
Thanks Ray.

 

[Chris(SoCenWI)]

Before the ETRAC we really never knew what the real time sensitivity setting was in Auto. Many people have said over the years that they ran Auto because they couldn't turn it up as high in manual without getting lots of falsing. They felt that they were running at a higher sensitivity this way. What they need to realize is that in auto the machine turned down the sensitivity for them; and probably much lower than they would have done so manually to get a reasonably stable machine.

The opposite works at low sensitivity levels. At 1 manual you can detect a coin maybe an inch or two from the coil. Switch it to Auto and you will get 5-6 inches. About the same as if you turned it up to 15 or so in manual. Basically changing sensitivity settings in Auto is like fiddling with a knob that has the set screw removed.

Ray, next time you are out with the ETRAC set it to 1 and switch between auto and manual and see what it runs at. I know what my XS does, would be curious if they changed the algorithm for the newer detectors.

Chris

 

[rbholt80]

well i use what works best for me but i know i hit deeper with manual as high as i can run it but days like today i ran in auto +3 on the beach but it was running in the mid 20's so that's why i ran it in auto. if it had dropped below my magic number 22 in auto i would have put it in manual and ran with the noise.
i may be hard core about running it hot with long tones but that works for me but may not for others.
i think it would be wise for people to play with settings and learn and to find there style. nothing will be perfect all the time and being able to adapt and use the settings to get the best out of the etrac is the best thing a new user could do.
thats my 2 cents on sens lol this has been a good read thanks Ray for posting this.

 

[Digger]

I think the reason you notice a noisier machine when trying to match up the manual Sensitivity with what the Auto Sensitivity indicated is because they use different parameters. The Etrac has three channels that it uses to identify targets. When you set up in Auto Sensitivity, the Etrac adjusts the sensitivity for each of those three channels separately. When you set up with manual Sensitivity, all three channels are set at the same level. For example, if the Etrac determined that the high channel would be set at 20, the mid channel set to 15, and the low channel set to 10, the Sensitivity number displayed will be 20, even though the average Sens is at 15. So when you manually set the Sensitivity at 20, thinking you are matching the Auto setting, you are actually putting more Sensitivity into the mix than was being done automatically. You'd actually be setting the Sensitivity at 20 for each channel. 20, 20, 20. That higher level of "all around" sensitivity is likely the reason your Etrac has more falsing, is noisier and is less stable than in the Auto Sens mode.

Another thing to keep in mind is that when you offset the Sensitivity (-3 to +3), the Etrac will compensate each of those three channels with the amount you chose. In other words, in the example above, if you added (+3) three to the Auto Sens, it will display 23. But the channels would actually be running at 23, 18 and 13. You can't set the manual mode to match that because in manual mode, all three channels get set with the same value. In this case, if you set manually to 23, your actual sensitivity to each channel would be 23, 23, 23. Much higher than the 23, 18, 13 that you actually have in Auto Sens for this example. And again, the probable reason for falsing, noise and instability. JMHO HH Randy

 

[Ray-Mo.]

Thanks for a very informative post Digger I find that the auto sens. numbers gives me some extra info about soil conditions and changing soil conditions at each site.It has been my experience that while running in auto I get better separation in the more extreme trashy areas.In these areas I am usually not striving for that last 1/4" of depth any way.I do not worry all that much about the tech part of a machine any way as it keeps me fully occupied just figuring out what settings help me find more old coins at any given site
I do know that when I hunt in some hot soil like this evening where auto is hard pressed to get up to 14 that depth falls way off no matter how I set it up,Ray.

 

[Digger]

I use the Auto Sensitivity +2, most of the time. What continues to surprise me is how "low" it operates at some of the sites I've hunted for years. Makes me think twice about hiking up the Sensitivity on my other detectors, when I use them at those same sites. Glad to hear you were out this evening. With another 5 inches of that darn white stuff today, and more forecasted for Sunday, it is going to be several more weeks before I can get back out swinging the coil. HH Randy

 

[McNickle]

I got ET in Sept of 2008 when it first came out........... I trusted the Auto Sensitivity & + or - and still do.............I normally run my ET at auto +3 when the site will let me............when a bit unstable..........I will even go Auto to -3................But when I get Auto that gets in the single didgets.........( I used to lower my sens even more........till I discovered something in my own back yard)..................In the case of extreem E.M.I. Interferance....................Check out the included video...............I learned something That day................DirtFish DAVE the (219erman).......AKA......(McNickle)
http://www.youtube.com/user/219erman#p/a/39B8C65B42A5F5D0/0/SwhTk1RXQjg

 

[John LA]

I don't ever remember reading that. Thanks