NEL 12" for MXT Pro?

[Daniel Tn]

I am a fan of the NEL coils for other machines. I don't coin hunt so I have no use for a hockey puck size coil. I relic hunt and like bigger coils. I have the MXT Pro and a Ultimate 13 coil for it. I just saw where NEL has a couple of coils for the MXT/V3 series. They have an 8 inch and 12 inch coil available. They are claiming 19 inches on a large coin. That's a great deal more than I am seeing with the Ultimate and D2 coils. I hunt in heavily mineralised soil...concentric coils really suffer in it. DD coils have really brought the machine to life for me. I'm thinking of getting the 12 inch NEL but thought I would ask if anybody had tried one. I also hear the SEF coils are nice but the only ones I hear people raving about are the 10x12 and the smaller ones. Never hear any mention on the larger SEF.

 

[therover]

Daniel,

I searched several dealer sites and the only NEL coils I see for Whites are for the Coinmaster series. Did NEL just come out with one for the MXT ?

 

[OregonGregg]

Yes I was wondering the same. As far as I know the NEL coils made for Whites were only for the Prizm 3, 4, 5, 6, & Coinmaster but not the Coinmaster GT

 

[CalvinD]

Maybe he means this one.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coil-12-DD-for-Whites-Spectra-Vision-V3-V3i-VX3-Whites-DFX-Whites-MXT-MXT-Pro-/301445171042?pt=US_Metal_Detector_Accessories&hash=item462f884762

 

[therover]

n/t

 

[Flintstone]

Maybe he means the 6x8 SEF coil. I have one for my MXT and it is a grate coil. I get 9" on a dime, and it dose good in trash.

 

[Daniel Tn]

They are on NEL's main website and a few are on eBay as well. They must be fairly new. They only offer a 8 inch and 12 inch. And they do not carry any of the names that the other NEL coils are (Sharp, Hunter, etc). I'm thinking of getting the 12 inch one and giving it a go.

 

[Aarong81]

http://nelcoil.com/index.php?route=product/manufacturer/product&manufacturer_id=12
They say V3 & DFX which should work on the MXT. I'd feel better buying from a company that didn't use advertizing like...

I invite you to the most stable for coil Whites v3.
&
The coil is made to limit a single counterparts, and has been very careful tuning.​

Included is no protection of the coil and bolt​

I am guessing that last line should be 'coil cover and bolt not included'? Maybe 'no packing peanuts included'?
They should add...."All your money are belong to us"

 

[Daniel Tn]

If you've used their other coils you'd know their quality is second to none. They build very good coils. I've had a lot of factory and aftermarket coils over the years from all manufacturers and the NEL coils are top notch. The English translation is not the best though. All their other coils come with a coil cover and coil bolt..from the pics I don't think these two come with covers. Thus what it probably means is...they are not including a coil bolt and coil cover.

 

[therover]

I saw those coils but did not know for sure if they were part of the NEL line.

 

[vito]

Those are not nel coils to me, as they're not advertised as nel. They invite you to a coil for DFX/V3.
On their home page there's a tab left beside white's which reads [other manufacturers] and there in is a link to the V3/DFX which will bring up these coils.

Happy Holidays.

 

[Aarong81]

From what I can tell both the 8" and 12" are probably concentric coils. There is no indication of them being any specific type, even concentric. The 12" has a center design similar to some DD coils but even the front and rear leading edges are rounded whereas all the NEL coils have an indention on the front and rear. The perfectly round coil shapes appear to be concentric but that is the only hint as to the coil type. Even with poor english they could indicate the coil type on their main website. The first picture shows NEL coils and the next two show some non-brand coils of unknown origin but NEL makes the claim they are Whites brand.
http://nelcoil.com/image/cache/data/coils-500x500.jpg http://nelcoil.com/image/cache/data/12%20inch%201-500x500.jpg http://nelcoil.com/image/cache/data/DSC00393-500x500.JPG

 

[Aarong81]

I found more description on ebay for the 12" and it is advertized as a DD. Whats more, I found a video comparison between the D2 and this 12"DD...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh1yHlIkuu0
The same user compares the D2 to the 8"DD mentioned....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDPNlHU7BFY
He also compares the 12"DD to the 950.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqFN_52shWA
Apparently, only the 8"DD and 12"DD can detect any of the test targets. while every other coil cannot.
I find the results surprising, suggesting the D2 is useless, as well as the 950. The D2 will make you dig some targets that another coil will accurately show as junk(bottlecaps, rust leaching off iron, ect)....but I've not had the impression that it is...BLIND! I have the D2 mounted all the time and it has found many things my 950 could not, but that should not be surprising. When an 8" and a 12" both can see what the D2 does not...THAT is odd.
My conclusion is that the "targets" are not good targets. They certainly sound good. Are they junk or even ground minerals? Why would the comparison coils be so blind to good targets that similar sized and style coils can see? I think the coils are making bad targets sound good.
Ebay LINK to the 12"DD.
Ebay LINK to the 8"DD.

 

[PSS1963]

From what I can tell both the 8" and 12" are probably concentric coils. There is no indication of them being any specific type, even concentric. The 12" has a center design similar to some DD coils but even the front and rear leading edges are rounded whereas all the NEL coils have an indention on the front and rear. The perfectly round coil shapes appear to be concentric but that is the only hint as to the coil type. Even with poor english they could indicate the coil type on their main website. The first picture shows NEL coils and the next two show some non-brand coils of unknown origin but NEL makes the claim they are Whites brand.
http://nelcoil.com/image/cache/data/coils-500x500.jpg http://nelcoil.com/image/cache/data/12%20inch%201-500x500.jpg http://nelcoil.com/image/cache/data/DSC00393-500x500.JPG

Hey Aaron,

All of the coils in the pics you posted are DD with the possible exception of the one labelled "Sharp" and the one in the lower right pic (is that just another shot of the "Sharp" coil?). What counts is not whether the over-all outline is perfectly round (a DD can be, a concentric will always be) but whether there is an inner circular ring. That will be the receive coil in a concentric and its usually about 1/3 to 1/2 the diameter of the outer (transmit ring). Its easy to tell in an open-frame coil and impossible to tell in a closed, round style of coil - you just have to know what you're getting. The indents often found in the outline of a DD coil are largely a matter of style but not really an essential feature. In a DD coil you have more of an equal left side / right side arrangement of the transmit and receive coils with a narrow overlap in the middle, while in a concentric the smaller receive coil is centered completely inside the transmit coil. As a point of example, I have an early DD style coil, my Blue Max 256 Widescan which is in a perfectly round disc style housing. It looks just like a larger version of my 6" concentric but has the troublesome traits of a DD, like more difficult pinpointing and susceptibility to EMI. So in summary, to tell DD from concentric (if its an open-frame coil) pay more attention to the center - if you see this: () or this: || its a DD, if you see this: O its a concentric. For the closed, round housings you just have to trust what the manufacturer says.

-pete

 

[Daniel Tn]

When I got my MXT Pro, it came with a new D2 coil and a DeTech Ultimate 13. In my testing...the D2 showed that it would not be accompanying me on any hunts. If you didn't have any other DD coil, I suppose it would do in a pinch. But there are better ones out there for sure. I keep hearing the 10x12 SEF coil is better than the Ultimate 13 too by some heavy hitter users. I may end up with one of those, but right now the Ultimate 13 is letting me get on down to the 12-13 inch bracket in some pretty harsh soil on Civil War bullets/buttons. I can only attest to what I've used though, and having had the first run of the MXT with that 950 coil...I CAN certainly see where it falls short in the ground...especially if it is bad ground. I couldn't get mine to hit a Civil War bullet beyond 5 inches in the ground with the 950 coil. It wasn't until I tried one with a DD coil that it began to show muscle and started to be able to pull things deep.

So getting back on topic of the thread.

I guess that means nobody has tried one of the coils I asked about.

 

[Monte]

a couple of hours ago [size=small](regarding the 10" D2)[/size].

Where I hunt I mainly use smaller-than-stock coils. When I have worked with an assortment of search coils, both in size and type [size=small](Double-D vs. Concentric)[/size], the smaller-than-stock coils general are favored due to the trashy conditions I deal with, and often also some dense brush and/or building rubble. Some DD coils have done 'OK' but Concentric have been the more frequently favored designs.

To your most recent comment below, I have used the 10" D2 DD coils since a pre-production prototype, to those that came on the Vision, a Vision replacement, a couple of coil replacements, a Spectra V3 then a V3i. I never liked the 10" D2 and never had enough favorable field performance to even make me want to have one in my search coils accessory bag. We are on the same page there.

I have used the 10" DD Excelerator coil and like the performance I got from it in more open areas, better than the 12" DD Excelerator or the 10X12 SEF. I have done 'OK' with White's 12" Concentric in open areas, eve very mineralized conditions. I have enjoyed the field performance of the 9" 'spider' Concentric coil, which is similar to the 950 but balanced much better. The MXT Pro/MXT All-Pro and 9" 'spider' coil have helped pull a lot of post CW era bullets and cases and whole cartridges, plus military buttons, from a couple of favorite sites that date to an 1968/1869 beginning.

Henry cases, some .45-70 cases a lot of 2 and 3 ringer bullets, and complete cartridges, cuff buttons and coat buttons, anywhere from 2" down to about 8". I have enjoyed using it more than the DD coils I have owned and worked over that same old site. I keep a 9" spider mounted on a lower rod in my accessory search coil back-pack bag. I haven't used the Ultimate 13 but a friend has one and I hope to use it and some other DD coils, larger than 8X10 or 10", in the next few months on an MXT All-Pro when I am working with an upgraded Teknetics T2 and Nokta Fors Co/Re.

We have a couple of sites that produce deeper-than-average targets for us where we plan to evaluate them, plus some old favorite homesteads and stage stops, etc., where we'll also compare results with standard coils and smaller-than-stock coils. It is going to be an interesting mid-January through May hunting period as I will be traveling and meeting up with friends in several western USA states, and I would likely place a bet on which make/model detector is going to produce the most results and provide the best all-purpose performance.

Yes, I am even going to add another Double-D coil equipped detector to my arsenal because it is multi-purpose performance that counts. I didn't like the 11" BiAxial coils from Teknetics so I eliminated them from my coil arsenal, too. I will report down the road how the bigger-size DD coils perform in my travels.

Monte

 

[Monte]

Hey Aaron,

What counts is not whether the over-all outline is perfectly round (a DD can be, a concentric will always be) but whether there is an inner circular ring.

Tesoro's 8X9 'egg-shaped' Concentrics are not round. Nor are their 10X12 Concentric coils, or the roughly 4X6 elliptical Concentric they made for their original Lobo and Diablo models.

The Fisher 6½" elliptical Concentric for their F70 & F75 is not round, nor is the similar-size Concentric they made for their Gold Bug 2. They made a 10" elliptical Concentric for their CZ series, and have a 10" elliptical [size=small](5½X9¾)[/size] for their F5. A similar size 10" elliptical Concentric coil is also made for some of the Bounty Hunter models, and for the Teknetics 'Greek series' and the Euro-Tek Pro models, so those Concentric coils are not round.

White's made an 8X14 elliptical Concentric for some of the Gold Master models, too. [size=small](I have one for sale at a bargain price, if interested.)[/size]

I am sure there are more odd-shaped Concentric coils that were not/are not 'round' shaped. Quite a few people have been confused to think all Concentric coils have to be 'round' in shape.

It's easy to tell in an open-frame coil and impossible to tell in a closed, round style of coil - you just have to know what you're getting.

No, you can turn the detector on and easily check the search coil to see if it has a amore uniform Concentric winding or the narrower front-to-rear and somewhat center-length Double-D configuration.

The indents often found in the outline of a DD coil are largely a matter of style but not really an essential feature.

Some indents are formed due to a "double-O" type of DD design, but others are designed, as you state, for 'style.' Garrett promoted theirs as being handy to help balance the detector when it is set down on the ground or a table. That's only logical for the shape at the rear or 'tail' or 'heel' of the coil, but not for the front or 'toe' of the coil because we don't set the detectors upside down. That served no purpose. Some models are more intently designed with coils that have that 'dip' at the 'heel' of the coil for balance, but the front portion of the search coil is still rounded, such as the Nokta Fors Co/Re. The Coin / Relic model has their not-round Double-D coil so shaped. So you're mainly right when it is for improved balance when it is set down.

In a DD coil you have more of an equal left side / right side arrangement of the transmit and receive coils with a narrow overlap in the middle, while in a concentric the smaller receive coil is centered completely inside the transmit coil.

Basically correct as the DD coils have more closely-sized Tx and Rx windings which overlap.

As a point of example, I have an early DD style coil, my Blue Max 256 Widescan which is in a perfectly round disc style housing. It looks just like a larger version of my 6" concentric but has the troublesome traits of a DD, like more difficult pinpointing and susceptibility to EMI.

Some DD coils, certainly not all of them, can handle EMI a little better than some Concentric designs. Your BM 256 is even more difficult to Pinpoint with, and is more susceptible to EMI, partly due to its larger physical size.

So in summary, to tell DD from concentric (if its an open-frame coil) pay more attention to the center - if you see this: () or this: || its a DD, if you see this: O its a concentric.

No, the elliptical DD coils tend to show an overlapping of the left-and-right Tx and Rx windings, which is how those wide scan designs got called a Double-D in the first place [size=small](with one 'D' reversed)[/size]. In some cases the center area with a narrow-width overlapping might appear to be more of an I. But the () appearance is what you see in an exposed elliptical Concentric design, like the Fisher/Teknetics 10" elliptical (5½X9¾) Concentric, while the Tesoro 8X9 and 10X12 coils have a less oblong and more out-of-round or egg-shaped appearance.

For the closed, round housings you just have to trust what the manufacturer says.

Often a coil maker might not clearly describe their search coil. That's why you just plug it in, then turn a detector on and quickly check-it-out. It's pretty simple to classify the coil type of modern search coils.

Monte

 

[PSS1963]

Hey Aaron,

What counts is not whether the over-all outline is perfectly round (a DD can be, a concentric will always be) but whether there is an inner circular ring.

Tesoro's 8X9 'egg-shaped' Concentrics are not round. Nor are their 10X12 Concentric coils, or the roughly 4X6 elliptical Concentric they made for their original Lobo and Diablo models.

The Fisher 6½" elliptical Concentric for their F70 & F75 is not round, nor is the similar-size Concentric they made for their Gold Bug 2. They made a 10" elliptical Concentric for their CZ series, and have a 10" elliptical [size=small](5½X9¾)[/size] for their F5. A similar size 10" elliptical Concentric coil is also made for some of the Bounty Hunter models, and for the Teknetics 'Greek series' and the Euro-Tek Pro models, so those Concentric coils are not round.

White's made an 8X14 elliptical Concentric for some of the Gold Master models, too. [size=small](I have one for sale at a bargain price, if interested.)[/size]

I am sure there are more odd-shaped Concentric coils that were not/are not 'round' shaped. Quite a few people have been confused to think all Concentric coils have to be 'round' in shape.

It's easy to tell in an open-frame coil and impossible to tell in a closed, round style of coil - you just have to know what you're getting.

No, you can turn the detector on and easily check the search coil to see if it has a more uniform Concentric winding or the narrower front-to-rear and somewhat center-length Double-D configuration.

The indents often found in the outline of a DD coil are largely a matter of style but not really an essential feature.

Some indents are formed due to a "double-O" type of DD design, but others are designed, as you state, for 'style.' Garrett promoted theirs as being handy to help balance the detector when it is set down on the ground or a table. That's only logical for the shape at the rear or 'tail' or 'heel' of the coil, but not for the front or 'toe' of the coil because we don't set the detectors upside down. That served no purpose. Some models are more intently designed with coils that have that 'dip' at the 'heel' of the coil for balance, but the front portion of the search coil is still rounded, such as the Nokta Fors Co/Re. The Coin / Relic model has their not-round Double-D coil so shaped. So you're mainly right when it is for improved balance when it is set down.

In a DD coil you have more of an equal left side / right side arrangement of the transmit and receive coils with a narrow overlap in the middle, while in a concentric the smaller receive coil is centered completely inside the transmit coil.

Basically correct as the DD coils have more closely-sized Tx and Rx windings which overlap.

As a point of example, I have an early DD style coil, my Blue Max 256 Widescan which is in a perfectly round disc style housing. It looks just like a larger version of my 6" concentric but has the troublesome traits of a DD, like more difficult pinpointing and susceptibility to EMI.

Some DD coils, certainly not all of them, can handle EMI a little better than some Concentric designs. Your BM 256 is even more difficult to Pinpoint with, and is more susceptible to EMI, partly due to its larger physical size.

So in summary, to tell DD from concentric (if its an open-frame coil) pay more attention to the center - if you see this: () or this: || its a DD, if you see this: O its a concentric.

No, the elliptical DD coils tend to show an overlapping of the left-and-right Tx and Rx windings, which is how those wide scan designs got called a Double-D in the first place [size=small](with one 'D' reversed)[/size]. In some cases the center area with a narrow-width overlapping might appear to be more of an I. But the () appearance is what you see in an exposed elliptical Concentric design, like the Fisher/Teknetics 10" elliptical (5½X9¾) Concentric, while the Tesoro 8X9 and 10X12 coils have a less oblong and more out-of-round or egg-shaped appearance.

For the closed, round housings you just have to trust what the manufacturer says.

Often a coil maker might not clearly describe their search coil. That's why you just plug it in, then turn a detector on and quickly check-it-out. It's pretty simple to classify the coil type of modern search coils.

Monte

Hi Monte,

You're absolutely right about the ellipticals - I forgot about those when I was writing this. (I suppose I could have said "all concentrics are elliptical" and that would have been more correct because after all, a circle is a special case of ellipse where the two foci lie on top of each other - we all remember that from geometry class - right?) Also, I was mainly speaking to Aaron's point about the presence or absence of "indents" and whether they are diagnostic in identifying a DD coil. Main point was I've never seen a concentric that had them (do you have an example?) while I have seen DD coils that didn't. Certainly, they may provide some side benefit in helping keep the detector from tipping over when you set it down but I'm going to go out on a limb and say there probably isn't any benefit to electrical/performance side of things. They could just as easily fill out the profile to a circle or whatever it would be without them but it saves weight not to have the plastic molded in areas where it isn't actually needed for structure.

You make a good point that assessing the center overlap area becomes a little more complicated when you include ellipticals in the list of possible shapes - again, I forgot about them. Whether you see a straight overlap area "|" or "||" or a cats-eye shaped overlap "()" it will tend to be narrow compared with the overall outline of the coil and the contours don't really follow those of the overall outline. The (open frame) concentrics I've seen have an inner Rx coil whose outline matches that of the outer Tx coil like two lanes of a road going around a curve (whether that be round or elliptical), and size of the inner Rx is a larger proportion of the overall size of the coil than the overlap area of a DD. I realize this is a pretty subjective thing and exceptions are possible. It helps to understand what they are doing with the coils under all that plastic. Garrett has a pretty good breakdown of this on page 31 of their 2014 catalog. As a matter of fact, the concentric they give as an example is elliptical.

I realize too that turning a detector on will very quickly tell you if you have a DD coil or a concentric but I was talking about what you could tell from a photograph alone - sorry, should have been more clear on that.

My 256 Widescan is not very good on the pinpointing and EMI susceptibility but it's also 27 years old. I'm completely open the idea that there are better ones available now and I do intend to add one to MY arsenal this year, $ permitting. Don't worry, I want the 5.3 eclipse as well - might even get that one first. Anyway, lots of people say great things about the 8x6 SEF for the MXT and the few comments I've seen regarding the 10x5 SEF are mostly in agreement that it is even better than the 8x6. Anyway, I'd like to have at least one good-sized DD in my bag for covering lots of ground in low-EMI sites. Anybody with experience in this, please feel free to chime in.

Thanks Monte for the expert input!

-pete

 

[Daniel Tn]

The Fors CoRe is a neat machine. If you like pulling things from thick iron, it will be fun to use but it does like finding tiny non ferrous things. The stock coil is very similar to the 11" biaxle coils on the F75/T2 though. In fact, the CoRe reminded me a lot of the T2 with how it behaves...just its faster response helps it in iron and thick trash. I personally didn't see that great of depth with it; but I hunt in heavily mineralised soil. Most of the people that are loving it, are using the smaller coil for it and hunting heavy iron sites.

I got my MXT Pro used but it came with a D2 and Ultimate coil. The D2 looks unused to me..I put it on and tested it, and then tried the Ultimate 13. I actually just ran some air tests on it and was pretty impressed with what it done. Heading out right now to do a little New Years Day hunting.

 

[PSS1963]

Happy New Year Dan! Good hunting and bring some goodies back for us! The ground just froze up here or I'd be out myself - are you in Tennessee? - hopefully your ground is still soft.

- pete