New tactics for iron

[james1969]

Well I was back on my old site today where I've had a lot of good finds in the past,one part of this site surrounding an old 19th century house is iron laden to the extreme,mostly the GT goes into a solid null and I rarely hear a threshold for a second or more,well even with my GT and joey coil combo I've had little successes in this 40x30 yard patch of ground.Today I thought I try different tactics,instead of turning the sensitivity way down to 3 o clock or clicking into auto I decided instead to leave the sensitivity in the 12 o clock position and raise the joey coil 3-4 inches(or more) above the very short grass,now I usually scrub the ground ground with the coil to get maximum depth but all this was doing here was to cause the machine to null,I figured that if I kept the coil high enough above the iron it would give the machine a chance to detect a good target lying above the iron.well what followed was the best day I ever had on a site like this,signals appeared right away,some were fairly clear but most sounded like croaks,burps and even wet farts!,always the best signals were a low croaking sound like you get over circular iron,if the signal was repeatable it was nearly always a good target lying above or beside iron,in all I pulled 14 targets from the iron,this is sensationally better than I was doing before,the best was an 18th century copper penny,this coin was being masked by piece of corrugated iron and it was very satisfying to see it in my hand considering I'd gone over this ground with 4 different machines before and missed it,one of these machines was a Compass goldscanner which is no slouch in the iron,still it did miss all the targets I dug today!
Well now I'm excited to go to my other iron laden site and see if I can repeat this success,I'll keep you informed.

 

[james1969]

n/t

 

[Piero franchi]

I to have tried many a thing to get the GT to read next to iron, in the end I gave up and got a new detector.
Gt with a suray 8 inc, gt with a platapuss, gt with the joey.

Best thing I ever done was to give up trying and except it just cant do that job well.

grate detector of beaches, but how many times have you swung that coil and it has just nulled and you could have misssed the find of a life time.

I dont want to think about what ifs, I want to find them, not miss em.

 

[james1969]

Well Piero I thought 14 good targets from that site was more than good considering 4 other machines were over the same ground countless times,however I accept that it is not an easy machine to use in iron but that's true of the Explorer as well but maybe you know Slow-n-low from the UK who wipes the floor with detectorists using other fast recovery machines,I believe he always uses a WOT coil as well which is pretty amazing,so maybe you should say that the Sovereign is hard to use in iron for beginners to intermediate users but can do well for advanced users who know the machine inside out.
Anyway what machine did you get?

 

[Jeff (IL)]

James,

Nice work. It's strange that turning down the sensitivity didn't accomplish much of the same thing, but I'm sure there's a reason. Just goes to show you how important the operator is in the whole equation....

HH,

Jeff

 

[Piero franchi]

I hate to say it, as SO SO SO many detectorist get to attached to there detector!!!!!!!
Its onlt a item, designed to find targets, but once some one has bought some thing, the last thing they want to here is its not much good for what you want it to do.

and the sov next to iron is not my first choice,
And dont forget, I still have one, so to say they are not much good, it is me atmitting I made that mistake also.

There is not much out there to better the sov on the beach, and a lot of advise and defence of the sov comes from beach detectorists, keep that in mind.

 

[james1969]

Well considering the Explorer gets the same criticism for being slow I guess thousands of people have made a mistake,amazing that Minelab are still the number one metal detector company in the world!

 

[Piero franchi]

Look how big mac donalds is.

dont mean they make good food!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So your point is????

If you dont want to find more targets, carry on closing your eyes.


funny that all the detector shops push there most profit making detector.

 

[Rick(ND)]

Piero,

How long have you owned the GT and what experience do you have with a Sovereign? The reason I ask is it take some time to get to know a Sovereign and get good with it. On the beach I know they run very smooth and not a lot of nuilling so you can swing faster, but in land they all do a lot of nulling and you have to go slower if you want to find good items in with iron. I seen where you wanted to do mods to make it faster instead of learning how this detector works and feel once you take the time to learn it you can see where it does work well in iron unless it is big big piece of iron everywhere.,Show me a detector that will work in there and get only the non ferrous and not the ferrous targets.
I have used my Sovereigns in many places other will not detect as there is so much iron and found some nice coins and other non ferrous target, but had to go slow, listen and have patience to do this. I also had to use my 8 inch coinsearch coil or the Sun Ray S-8 coil as they seem to work the best for me.
In my 35 years of detecting I find the Sovereigns one of the better ones out there once you get to know it, the Explorers too with the 5 inch coils work well in iron too I have seen picking out good target next to iron and yet get good depth, but these you have to go slow with. The Troy Shadow X5 also did well for me in iron and with this one you got a lot of falsing only to see by swinging the coil faster iron would not repeat like a good target. I now and trying the Fisher F-75 and it loves iron and I seem to not do that well with it around iron, but only used it about 80-100 hours and need to use it more and get to know it as many say it is one of the best detectors around iron, that is those that spent the time to get to know it well.
Good luck with your GT or what ever detector you are going to use.

Rick

 

[Piero franchi]

Hi Rick

I am Dyslexic and so will try and keep this reply short as I hate wrighting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To make things simple, use what ever coil you like, then get a peace of iron, about a meadium bolt size will do, now swing that over the coil, and within a second, swing a silver hamered coil, bet you wont hear it,

now to say go slow, just aint pratical, even more so, soon as the sov nuls, you need to stop, not go slow.

because as its still nulling, you will miss any thing thats under the coil as your still swinging.

try the iron nut test then think, how many times might i have missed some thing, because my best finds are all in iron infected feilds.

Piero

 

[james1969]

Good post Rick,after one year with the GT I am only just in the last few weeks starting to find in heavy iron,I was advised about lifting the coil in iron a few years ago but forgot this advise,the person who advised me was extremely experienced(Norfolk wolf from UK).I don't believe any machine will find targets easily in iron no matter how fast it is,finding in iron takes skill and I reckon it always will.

So the Fisher f75 loves iron,now that is good info indeed,I've seen a few experienced guys selling their F75 after a few months,many prefer the T2,I think I 'd go with an X-Terra 70 if I went down the single frequency route.

 

[Piero franchi]

Hi James 1969

I only say what I say cos I am trying to help, believe it is not.
I just cant see the point in flogging a dead horse.
I have ask so many people to do the iron test and report back.(with a sov)
NOT ONE TO DATE HAS COME BACK WITH THERE FINDINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have used a sov for many many years, started with what was new at the time, a sov xz2a pro. so I do know the detector very well.

I also have a X terra 70, and I can really rate this detector, my only comment is, you need a lot of its coils to fully unlock whats its capable of.

That ain't a bad thing really, as there is no were you cant go with an extra and the write coil.

In iron, the 10 x 5 takes some beating, even the detector I use almost exclusively ain't that much far in front of it.

ALWAYS run the xtera in all metal, and you cant go far wrong.

 

[adam in cal]

good for you, I am glad you found something you feel is working.......I personally use a different approach, but I am a firm believer that if you feel something is working then stick with it .........

 

[Rick(ND)]

What I have done is use my floor in the bar I own and set coin on the floor and try it. Now this floor is full of nails and other bigger pieces of iron and if you swing the coil at a reg slow speed it is just one solid null. Now I slow up a bit and will start hearing the threshold null most of the time, but it also will give a squeak of a positive signal. Now with the slower speed it maybe a little better so I will then just feel where this target is by swinging the coil over just that small area, it looks like a wiggle over just that small area and find i can get a good signal on it. Sometimes this is just a false off of iron which you can tell as it will not be repeatable or not in the same area. When it is a smaller coin and a bigger piece of iron in actual hunts than it can be missed easy I am sure, but I have also seen where you will get enough of a tone change to check it out too. In areas where a lot of iron you have to go real slow and should hear the good targets close to iron like nails, but wont if the item is big like a railroad spike and the coin is right beside it. There is no detector that I know of that will pick up a coin next to a large piece of iron, you will get the signal on the iron and pick the coin up while getting the iron. The Sovereigns hate iron but unless it is real big you should be able to get a signal of a non ferrous target if you go slow enough. My feelings is you don't want a solid null when swinging the coil and you either have to lower the sensitivity or go slower sweep speed and sometimes both.
Now if you don't mind digging iron there are many detectors I am sure will do OK for you.
My Shadow X5 I had was decent in iron and still get the coins but you would dig iron too sometimes. The Fisher F-75 also is one I have tried and still have that will get a lot of iron, but also will get some nice targets too in with iron, but after around 80 hours I am still in the learning with it. The T-2 also was a very good detector and it too seem to love iron, but was doing better all the time with it until I sold it, will say this one loved very small targets too and maybe a good one for you. The Sovereign being it hates iron will work in most cases, but unless you go real slow you will miss some good targets too along with the iron. This is why I say you have to go slow and sometimes very slow and do more wiggling than anything else. I have dug many of coins that had nails and bolts in the same hole. One right off hand was a franklin half dollar the GTI 2500 went over and got nothing but a null, the Sovereign got a squeak in the threshold of a good target, wiggled the coil and it sounded decent and notice it had a null too with it so i had the GTI 2500 go over it in disc and it didn't get anything, put it in all metal and is showed iron and not a signal he would dig. Tried the Sovereign again and it nulled, but still had that squeak of a good target if you went slow enough and it was repeatable too so I dug it and used my Sun Ray probe in all metal and it was a loud signal and out comes a big rusty bolt around 6 inches deep, but right under it I seen something silver and there was a Franklin half with a big rusty spot across the face of the coin where the bolt had laid. Made a believer out of the GTI 2500 user.
Like I say this is what seems to work the best for me, but there is places I have to go very very slow in order to do any good. If it is big pieces of iron than like i say you may have to use a different detector that don't hate iron like the Sovereign does.

 

[UK Brian]

Well if he's wiping the floor he must be finding lots he's not letting on about. The difference in these posts are that preople are talking about different amounts of iron contamination. I can't use a WOT on most of my productive sites at all because there would be a couple of pieces of iron under the coil at all times...even a 10" is pushing it.
Small coils were made for a very good reason and target masking led to the move towards faster recovery speeds.

 

[Piero franchi]

Uk Brian, please read all the post, I use a joey in iron infested sites, its still nulls under iron, and so it should, BUT it takes TO long to recover, and hence as you are still moving the coil, you might miss some thing.

you cant be expected to stop every time you hit iron, so the detector can recover?????????

 

[james1969]

Good post Rick,did you ever try a 5 inch coil on the gt in the real heavy iron?

 

[Rick(ND)]

I tried it on the XS and felt it did good for me, but didn't have the depth my 8 inch Coinsearch had which was expected. I used the 5 where I had a real bad concentration of rusty bottle caps and pull tabs and found it was a bit noise and had to go slow, but it did pick out some silver that was left for me after everyone else went over it over the years. I like my 8 inch coinsearch coils, the S-8 and the S-12 and now that new 10 inch Tornado coil that is stock on the GT. The S-8 will separate well enough I don't need the 5 inch at most of my area, but if I was in a real bad area I know I will wish I had it.

 

[UK Brian]

Hi Piero. Quite agree with you.
I think I suggested to you a few months back that its far easier to switch to a fast recovery speed machine for the bad sites rather than try and make do.
For those who insist on struggling with their Sovereigns then they can always fit a remote mode switch and use all metal as the primary search mode.

 

[DonNWF]

I'm no electronic expert and not much into the tech aspects of detectors. But I also dont want to be missing stuff that I could be finding.
My personal feeling is sucessful hunting is all about technique and dedication to the search. Then you got to actually get out and swing the coil over something.

I tried the test as I understand it.

My Setup ------- GT disc mode,, zero disc, sens 11 oclock.,Steady low threshold., no meter, no headphones
8inch Excelerator Concentric coil (modified).
Used gavanized 1/2 inch by 6inch iron bolt and a US half-dime ( a very small target).

test 1 - A fast sweep (my beach hunting speed) with the bolt, follows immediately with a pass of the dime.
Result - iron nulled--- dime was immediately picked up with good coin signal.

Test 2 - A slow pass (My dirt hunting speed - not real slow) of the bolt followed by a fast pass of thw dime.
Result - iron nulled----dime signal immediately picked up

Test 3 - Random passes of the bolt followed by the dime so that both were under the coil at the same time.
Results - As soon as the bolt cleared the coil the dime gave a clear coin signal

Test 4 - (Just for fun) Combined bolt with 1/2 dollar coin and passed under the coil together.
Results - Iron null - broken signal, good signal mix
.In the real world I would be on this one like a cat on a mouse. And I would dig it. I tried this with the dime. No signal only null.

I believe that .given the test criteria , in my ground, using my equipment and hunting for coins, rings, relics, I would be able to detect good signals at good speed. Even a scattering of iron bolts as long as I could clear the coil.. Given that the test was a close proximity test,using the concentric in real world hunting I believe I could have both the bolt and the coin under the coil and still get a dig signal. Depending on the position of the bolt relative to the position of the coin.

8in modified concentric coil. In my ground, in my hunting areas, it beats the 10 Tornado hands down. I have run it with maxied out Sens;
The modification My new dog chewed the coil cable almost al the way through and I had to cut of 16 inches of cable to repair it. Works better than it did before. Like I said you got to actualy go look for stuff and I'm gone. Don