WV62 said:
Revier I have heard this up averaging deal before but could never prove it on my 2 F75's. I was wondering if you know how I could prove this on my latest F75?
I would think if I had a coin kind of close to some iron my ID number would be lower than a quarter by it's self, but higher than the iron by it's self.
Just wondering what your take is on this.
If my above statement is what to expect, I don't see that it would do anybody any good.
Ron in WV
Ron...You got it wrong.
I see your confusion and I will set you straight and help you find even more than you are now if you have soil that acts anything like mine or if you ever hunt in heavy iron infested sites.
Here is the gist and that novel below will illustrate...
You are thinking of blended signals but not in the right way.
A quarter in a hole with a nickel will usually even out to somewhere around a dime in normal soil for most of us.
A 35 number tab laying n on a 73 dime won't be either but a signal somewhere in between.
A low conductor and a higher one or any combinations of these different conductive metals will skew most signals all the time everywhere if they are in close proximity and all this is just a form of masking.
Here is the difference with iron using the F70/F75/T2 platform and who knows maybe a couple of others.....
The iron will throw off false higher signals for sure, if it is rusty even small nails con false into high coin numbers several inches away from where it actually lays.
Big rusty iron even further.
Then you can get those actual iron numbers mixed in too but you can really nail them down if you search around the area with your coil and use your pinpoint to find their exact location.
Now add a coin in there, let's say a merc that is within the conductivity field thrown off by all this iron stuff when energized by the signals sent out by our coils.
In these cases you are thinking the iron will combine with the dime like that nickel and dime would but this is not what happens.
In reality they remain, for the most part, separate entities with a different relationship yet still combined in a totally unique way.
Think of a lava lamp filled with a translucent liquid and colored wax that makes up the rising and falling bubbles.
They are not actually combined, the light source in the bottom heats the wax which changes its density so it rises.
When it gets high enough it starts to cool and gets heavier so it sinks and so on.
The iron is the heat source and non ferrous targets near iron can be thought of that heated wax.
Iron causes the normal conductivity readings to rise, NOT combine with that dime and make a signal that would be somewhere between like two different coins.
Iron lifts up that merc signal into non normal areas, it doesn't lower it at all like other coins or trash could.
These higher than normal signals are there although they might not be easy to notice at first unless you have the right settings and know what you are looking for.
Using monotone, low disc and very high sense can do it, this is the essence of Dankowski's monotone, disc on 6 method.
High gain on these units will actually give you higher resolution around iron, not cloud the issue like many think...the high headlights in a fog theory.
My maxed out blast through settings will do it too and way more than well I have found.
Those high settings will also see those better targets as way higher than normal, what took me so long to get good at doing it this way is maneuvering that coil at a slow enough speed to notice this block of higher numbers,(never a single or two numbers...always a larger block of at least 5 or 6), and then moving that coil ever so slowly from 2 directions to get them to repeat efficiently.
If indeed a good target is laying there masked at all.
In my rough soil I don't need to use high gain at all, all targets are up averaged around here and the deeper they are the higher they are.
Many examples and experiences below.....
I never air tested or set up a test garden with iron but I have seen the proof multiple times in the field in both good soil and bad...the best way to gain good data is by hunting in the wild I would think.
I have no doubt that it is a real thing and because it can lift all non ferrous targets up into a higher range than normal...literally lift them up and out of a combo signal of not only a small bit of iron in the vicinity but a blanket of thick iron of any kind and help you notice them easier I am going to call this a feature and a great one at that.
6 months after I started hunting with my F70 I noticed this effect big time and it helped me find my first gold of 2014 and I was still deep into the experimenting and tweaking phase at this time.
This was a very difficult site to hunt and I had been their many times.
Really great black mild soil in this park in Missouri, mineralization was not an issue ever back there and I usually GB'd at this park at low to mid 40's numbers and at the most one bar on the dirt meter...if that.
Iron generally was not an issue either in most areas of the public parks I usually hunted although I did come across a little once in awhile plus I did visit a few sites with major amounts where I learned many life lessons...this was not one of them.
This area was at the edge of an old park near a sidewalk and street that had more EMI issues than any other site I ever visited before or since.
It always had this crazy huge constant pulsing EMI problem in this same spot and I never figured out why but this was right next to the parking area so I always walked through here every time I came trying different settings and things till the noise, jumping and chatter drove me crazy and I eventually moved on to much quieter areas in this large park.
I did try very low sense and thresh settings here too sometimes and they worked shockingly well in making my heater a true silent searcher in that crazy place and enabled me to find great stuff but you know me, high crazy settings boy and I happened to be in that mode on this hunt.
On this hunt I had the big DD coil mounted and I was using my blast through all settings maxed out method when I came across this signal.
Hard as it might be to believe those pumped up SL all metal settings were actually quieter than using lower settings in disc and DE here for some reason...again I have no clue why this would be but it was.
I swung over a target and got a mixed signal of iron and something else.
Low iron numbers on the ends on every swing plus higher falsing numbers into the 70's like rusty iron can cause and at first glance this was nothing I should have thought to dig.
However, every time I swung I got those iron and falsing signals I also got something else right in the middle...a pretty short but consistent kind of repeatable tone and numbers on the screen that always said 52-53.
I got curious so I stopped and maneuvered that coil a bit more and used my pinpoint butt to see if I could figure out what was going on.
Soon enough I guessed there were three targets here and close enough that they were all under my coil at the same time if I centred on that middle target.
There was a small piece of rusty iron on the left, turned out to be a rusty nail because I dug that one later, and a large piece of iron on the right that was deep enough that I never even tried to dig it curious or not.
What was that low 50's number target in the middle I wondered?
I thought at the time probably can slaw but I hoped it might be a masked gold class ring because I had dug 4 all in the 48-52 low zinc range area in the past.
I stuck my digger in and popped a tiny shallow plug and it was a bit deeper so one more time in that hole with the tip of my digger and I pried up a little more dirt.
I was shocked when a gold ring actually did come up that time!
I was thrilled and then a bit confused after that wore off, this thing was not huge like a class ring, only about 3.2 grams of 10k, so why did it come in so high like those much bigger and heavier class rings always did?
I air tested it out of the ground in my hand and I was surprised again...this time it rang up as a solid 41 on every pass no matter how I held it, a much more normal signal for a ring this size and a full 10 numbers lower than those original repeating numbers.
I swung over the whole area again and there was nothing there at all, no trash, no other signal on anything else except that big iron that was still deeper that I left in the ground.
It had to be those iron targets that caused this, nothing else was around that could have done it.
That was lesson one.
Lesson two was in that iron mine where I found all those great things that were missed by so many including myself for years.
Iron everywhere including more than one piece in just about every hole I dug even the ones with good targets plus huge rusty iron farm junk deeper like chains and rings and rusty tools.
It took me awhile to figure that place out but when I finally got good enough to actually recognize the great stuff masked to the extreme I realized something.
Every target I dug at that place that was old and great and all in the the 4-6" depth level area all came in really really high before I dug them.
Indian heads and old wheat cents, silver dimes and a walker half all came in at the high 80's to low to mid 90's and as you know that is more like silver half to silver dollar range...usually.
Thinking Back I believe that walker was higher than even those numbers into like the mid to higher 90's.
Even the other things I recovered like a tiny slip wheel brass lighter, an aluminum stamping machine token and just about everything else all came in at much higher ranges than you would ever suspect.
Every one of those targets when air tested out of the ground all returned to their normal numbers...every one.
Guess what caused it all...yep, that iron because it was everywhere.
The key to this method was moving the coil slow and trying to notice not stable numbers because there never were any here but blocks of numbers, a small range of about 5-6 that I could get to repeat somewhat and would do it again from a 90 degree angle.
I didn't care where those numbers were as long as they weren't repeating at only iron numbers...if they weren't they got dug which was good.
At another site in another park around an old farmhouse with another unusual amount of iron nails and junk it happened again, I dug wheats and silver dimes at numbers again up into those same blocks of high 80's to low 90's ranges that repeated and had missed so many times before I learned and practiced this iron hunting method.
Cut to my current hunting location here in my red clay mineralized soil in parks in this city with even more helpings of iron besides that normal iron oxide that makes the dirt so red.
Everything I learned in those iron filled sites transferred to all the sites I hunt here.
The only targets that come in normal here are the really shallow ones and sometimes not even then.
An IH I dug a few months ago, you know, the kind that usually come in as a zincoln signal, was only about 1-2" deep but it still came in as a signal between a regular dime and a quarter due to some iron near it deeper.
Out of the ground, normal.
I have dug tons of wheats, several IH's a lot more silver dimes, a few war nickels, tokens galore and more after I moved back at many different sites all around the city, all of them came in much higher than normal and they get higher the deeper they go in this soil and then all returned to normal again when freed.
A silver war nickel dug at about 3" came in at the mid 60's, another one and a few buffs that were more into the 5-6" depth level were all back into those low 80's to low 90's again and a real deep V nickel at 7-8" was in the 90's consistently...yea, even nickels.
A silver dollar at 4" was a solid 98-98 from every direction, I dug that one because I never saw a signal like that before and it was solid, stable and sounded sweet in DP tones.
Again they all returned to normal away from that iron.
Even head stamps, bullets, tabs and other trash soars high here if they are past 3", just a fact in my world and part of the whole new language I had to learn to hunt in it successfully.
The only deep target that I can remember digging here that was deep that was entirely normal was a silver Masonic token that came in at a solid quarter signal every time from every direction ant it was very but of 7" deep.
In this spot was a patch of unusually mild black dirt without much of the normal mineralized properties most other black dirt around here still posses and no iron near it either.
This was fill dirt piled up near a fire station they had built on this site in this park in 1961.
Where the heck that dirt came from I haven't a clue and I have dug a couple other normal signalS in that dirt too but nowhere else.
So to recap....Iron doesn't combine with targets it lifts them way high, up averaging at its very essence.
Understand this and learn techniques and methods to notice these higher than normal signals and the world is yours.
