I haven't tried power balancing with my vaquero and idk if I will try it. Shouldn't manufacturers set the machines to where they have the best chance of finding silver and gold? I haven't found any deep silver with my vaquero yet and im really hoping I'm not missing it. My discrimination hasn't really been workin like it should so i might be sending my machine in once it starts snowing here.
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Not wanting to sound dumb, but what is power balancing?:confused:
- Thread starter 2 Much Trash
- Start date
Bobby s said:
With the Vaquero you have controls that allow you to set up for a fairly wide variety of ground conditions and hunting styles. That is one advantage of controls. One disadvantage is that you can also set it up to give pretty bad performance. Learning the detector and the controls is important. Sometimes going back and self evaluating what you are doing with the set ups and the conditions you are hunting in is important too.
Cheers,
tvr
tvr said:
Yea I know that part, I've had it for awhile and have gotten some pretty deep targets. Most of the places I've gone prolly just didn't have a lot of silver anyways. The reason I asked that question is it was said that thresholds are set a little too positive or whatever which is why "power balancing" helps. It's just weird that an idea that wasn't intended by the manufacturer seems to be helping people get more depth.
Hey Woodnick.
You asked a ? and I tried to answer...that's all.
Monte is like the magic 8-ball of detecting and all his answers are always pretty much spot on... It's just people like Steve shake the thing really hard and stur him up so that a simple (You are correct) wont come up....It's more like the Encyclopedia E'l Monteca throws up.
MONTE I LOVE YOUR INPUT AND POSTS....Just busting on ya for sh-ts and grins
HH
Gary
You asked a ? and I tried to answer...that's all.
Monte is like the magic 8-ball of detecting and all his answers are always pretty much spot on... It's just people like Steve shake the thing really hard and stur him up so that a simple (You are correct) wont come up....It's more like the Encyclopedia E'l Monteca throws up.
MONTE I LOVE YOUR INPUT AND POSTS....Just busting on ya for sh-ts and grins
HH
Gary
Did you power balance with the ground or a mineral sample at the factory? I found I had to go back to "normal" sites in my area and power balance there. And while I'm here, Robert-Whenever I tried it with my Compadre, I could NEVER get it to where it would sound off on the UPLIFT of the coil. I could, however, get sounds on the UPLIFT and the Downstroke and I set it to where it went silent on both. Am I still a little positive? Thanks.allcav said:
slingshot my friend, when you are power balancing your Compadre make sure that while pumping the detector that you hold it right side up not up side down like when you are trying to beat the control box of your yeller tecter on the ground to try to knock the nasty noise out of itslingshot said:
.
Bucksport
Active member
I don't care who you are, that's funnySkiWhiz said:slingshot my friend, when you are power balancing your Compadre make sure that while pumping the detector that you hold it right side up not up side down like when you are trying to beat the control box of your yeller tecter on the ground to try to knock the nasty noise out of itslingshot said:
Bobby s. said:
The actual characteristic is that the ground balance setting appears to have a small offset between the all-metal mode and the discrimination mode when no change has been made to the ground balance knob position (just swithcing from all metal to discrimination). The observation of the difference in setting the detector up by power balancing in the discrimination mode can be noticed in the response of the threshold when switched back to all metal. In my observations, it seems to make less difference in depth if the ground balance is off a little when I am hunting mild ground and more different if it is off a little when hunting more mineralized areas.
In slingshot's case, with the Compadre, there is no threshold to listen to, so I think SkiWiz may have a point!
Cheers,
tvr
I have enough trouble with that guy without ya'll encouraging him.tvr said:Bobby s. said:
The actual characteristic is that the ground balance setting appears to have a small offset between the all-metal mode and the discrimination mode when no change has been made to the ground balance knob position (just swithcing from all metal to discrimination). The observation of the difference in setting the detector up by power balancing in the discrimination mode can be noticed in the response of the threshold when switched back to all metal. In my observations, it seems to make less difference in depth if the ground balance is off a little when I am hunting mild ground and more different if it is off a little when hunting more mineralized areas.
In slingshot's case, with the Compadre, there is no threshold to listen to, so I think SkiWiz may have a point!
Cheers,
tvr
First comment is I'm one of those 'older' guys who's not up on the modern texting type thing and it took a minute to figure out what the 'idk' was.Bobby s said:
I have found 'Power Balancing' can achieve the best functional performance in the Discriminate mode, especially if hunting in a more iron mineralized environment. Is it always necessary to Power Balance a detector? No, but you can get better Disc. mode performance, especially in 'bad ground' if you do. You just don't want the GB setting to be too positive.
Technically, they do ...... if they offer a true, conventional All Metal mode, because they we can find everything.Bobby s said:
Most of us hunt a site in the Discriminate mode, so the results are going to be based upon how WE have the detector set up and how properly we sweep the search coil. If the detector, in this case a Tesoro, is a factory preset GB model, and of the GB is set too positive, then yes, we can have some impaired performance. If we tweak the GB for peak performance, or use a model such as the Vaquero that has manual GB, the advantage is in our hands to achieve the best all-around GB setting.
With the best settings for the conditions, and if we use a proper slow-motion sweep speed and not sweep too briskly which can cut in on performance, the odds will be in our favor.
Facts: There's not as much silver coin age to be found as there used to be. Any detector maker or promoter can say what they want, but most of us who were out avidly detecting in the "early days" (and that would be me from March of '65 on through the '70s and early '80s), most of the silver coins and older coins that were easy picking we plucked. There just aren't that many old silvers or other oldies available.Bobby s said:
Oh, there are some out there, but there's also a much greater abundance of modern-day trash. Trash that is higher conductive, like pull tabs and screw caps and more foil type and aluminum type junk, than what we ever experienced way back when. Thus, the shallower positioned junk, or trash too close to desired finds, masks the good targets. And it makes more people increase the Discriminate level, all of which adds up to masking and missing a lot of desired targets.
With your Vaquero, or any detector, site selection is the important key, and then hunting a good potential site with the highest Sensitivity you can w/o noise or chatter, and the lowest Discrimination level you can tolerate. Be slow and methodical, patient, and dig all the good hits as well as the 'iffy' responses.
Odds are that your Vaquero doesn't need a trip to the factory service, just proper settings and a lot of time afield.
Monte
See, the Vaquero is capable and really doesn't need repair service.Bobby s said:
So true, most places we frequent probably lack much i9n the way of silver coins that used to be there. Darn it!Bobby s said:
It isn't the Threshold level being set too positive, it is the Ground Balance being set too positive. Threshold is another part of the adjustments we make.Bobby s said:
We always should first adjust the audio Threshold to a slight audio 'hum.'
Then, the Ground Balance comes into play. If it is set to positive, then lowering the coil towards the ground changes our audio response by INCREASING the audio from the 'proper' Threshold setting. If the GB is too negative (in a Threshold-based All Metal mode) we hear the proper slight audio Threshold hum drop off (null) as the coil is lowered toward the more mineralized ground.
If I am searching with most Tesoro's I prefer (those with manual GB), I ALWAYS make sure I have a slightly positive GB when I am mainly hunting in the Threshold-based All Metal mode.
If I am mainly hunting in the silent-search Discriminate mode, that's when I use 'Power Balancing' to adjust the Disc. mode's GB function for the best setting., and most often the result is a somewhat negative GB in the All Metal mode.
What the manufacturer intended, going back to the earlier Tesoro circuitry designs by Jack Gifford, was to make sure the Discriminate mode's GB reference was just a bit more positive than the All Metal mode GB setting. Manually adjusted models might be balanced just a bit negative, or with manual GB or the factory preset models, you might wanted from kinder ground to worse ground, and if the Disc. mode GB is too negative, you would get a lot of false beeps.Bobby s said:
So, to eliminate having consumers complain about noisy operation, it was simple to just design the circuitry so the Disc. mode was somewhat positive to the All Metal mode GB setting. The problem, however, was that many Tesoro models had/have too much of a positive off-set, and being too positive (more than the manually adjusted All Metal setting) can cause the detector to lose responsiveness, (loss of depth or total loss of detection) of larger, higher-conductive targets like the
silver $1, Silver 50
--- 
--- And in the seminars I have done since 1981, and especially since using motion-based Tesoro's since the 1983 Inca, I have used four different pieces of ferrite, and a half dozen different mineralized rocks, from mild to bad, to an ugly one (minerally speaking) from Australia. I also demon on the ground using average dirt, bad dirt, pea gravel, and worse, and in every case it is easy to demonstrate how a 'proper' Power Balanced Tesoro (or some other models) can perform better in the Discriminate mode. It also shows that in almost every case with a Tesoro, once Power Balanced in the Disc. mode, the All Metal mode's GB is slightly to somewhat negative (nulling out as the coil approaches the ground).
Monte
Monte
Thanks for the responses Monte. I actually took the vaquero out today and found a 1946 rosie, a 1943 war nickel, a wheaty, and a token. The only reason I think it needs to be sent in is that the discrimination seems to be off when rejecting targets, but it might just be because how trashy the ground im detecting is. As for the "power balancing", I definitely dont want to lose those bigger pieces of silver, I guess I just need to see how it is done, trying to figure it out from words is tough. Should you set the All-metal ground balance first before doing it in discriminate mode?
2 Much Trash
Well-known member
Monte said:First comment is I'm one of those 'older' guys who's not up on the modern texting type thing and it took a minute to figure out what the 'idk' was.Bobby s said:
I have found 'Power Balancing' can achieve the best functional performance in the Discriminate mode, especially if hunting in a more iron mineralized environment. Is it always necessary to Power Balance a detector? No, but you can get better Disc. mode performance, especially in 'bad ground' if you do. You just don't want the GB setting to be too positive.
Technically, they do ...... if they offer a true, conventional All Metal mode, because they we can find everything.Bobby s said:
Most of us hunt a site in the Discriminate mode, so the results are going to be based upon how WE have the detector set up and how properly we sweep the search coil. If the detector, in this case a Tesoro, is a factory preset GB model, and of the GB is set too positive, then yes, we can have some impaired performance. If we tweak the GB for peak performance, or use a model such as the Vaquero that has manual GB, the advantage is in our hands to achieve the best all-around GB setting.
With the best settings for the conditions, and if we use a proper slow-motion sweep speed and not sweep too briskly which can cut in on performance, the odds will be in our favor.
Facts: There's not as much silver coin age to be found as there used to be. Any detector maker or promoter can say what they want, but most of us who were out avidly detecting in the "early days" (and that would be me from March of '65 on through the '70s and early '80s), most of the silver coins and older coins that were easy picking we plucked. There just aren't that many old silvers or other oldies available.Bobby s said:
Oh, there are some out there, but there's also a much greater abundance of modern-day trash. Trash that is higher conductive, like pull tabs and screw caps and more foil type and aluminum type junk, than what we ever experienced way back when. Thus, the shallower positioned junk, or trash too close to desired finds, masks the good targets. And it makes more people increase the Discriminate level, all of which adds up to masking and missing a lot of desired targets.
With your Vaquero, or any detector, site selection is the important key, and then hunting a good potential site with the highest Sensitivity you can w/o noise or chatter, and the lowest Discrimination level you can tolerate. Be slow and methodical, patient, and dig all the good hits as well as the 'iffy' responses.
Odds are that your Vaquero doesn't need a trip to the factory service, just proper settings and a lot of time afield.
Monte
Amen to that Montgomery
