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Nox coin ring video
- Thread starter KyJoe
- Start date
Neither beach mode or field 1 would hit any of my silver quarters or rings that would come in over or at a quarter on the VDI while on edge! It seems all my smaller silver rings (zinc to dime range) and dimes can be hit in park1 so its got to have something to do with making the higher conductors wrap around as they seem to hit in the lower digits.
Hits it just fine in park 2 and field 2 with accurate ID.
Thank you for this insight.
Hits it just fine in park 2 and field 2 with accurate ID.
Thank you for this insight.
sgoss66
Well-known member
That's my video, KyJoe.
From what I can tell, it likely has to do with the high conductivity of the coin ring, and the orientation of the ring, combined with the particular electromagnetic field produced by the coil, all resulting in the ring "wrapping" from "silver" ID numbers into iron numbers. I plan to do three other tests. 1 -- in Park 1 again, but this time with no disc. so as to see if it is IDing solidly, but as an "iron" target (which would indicate wrap-around). 2 -- in other modes, to see (as TN Mike noted) if other modes will hit the on-edge ring better/properly. 3 -- adjust iron bias up and down, to see if that has any effect (in Park 1 mode, where the machine was struggling).
If I were you, I would not worry about this "quirk" or "oddity." I am VERY pleased with the machine, after about 5 hunts/20 hours or so on the unit. It has impressed me in more ways than one -- including pulling good finds that have most definitely been missed (including by me, with FBS machines). A silver quarter I dug Sunday was DEFINITELY swung over, by me, with an Explorer, multiple times. The nail that was next to it in the hole must have been what led to me making a "no dig" decision on the coin before. Despite this "peculiarity," the machine is QUITE capable...
Trust me, it's a very good machine. You won't regret getting one.
Steve
From what I can tell, it likely has to do with the high conductivity of the coin ring, and the orientation of the ring, combined with the particular electromagnetic field produced by the coil, all resulting in the ring "wrapping" from "silver" ID numbers into iron numbers. I plan to do three other tests. 1 -- in Park 1 again, but this time with no disc. so as to see if it is IDing solidly, but as an "iron" target (which would indicate wrap-around). 2 -- in other modes, to see (as TN Mike noted) if other modes will hit the on-edge ring better/properly. 3 -- adjust iron bias up and down, to see if that has any effect (in Park 1 mode, where the machine was struggling).
If I were you, I would not worry about this "quirk" or "oddity." I am VERY pleased with the machine, after about 5 hunts/20 hours or so on the unit. It has impressed me in more ways than one -- including pulling good finds that have most definitely been missed (including by me, with FBS machines). A silver quarter I dug Sunday was DEFINITELY swung over, by me, with an Explorer, multiple times. The nail that was next to it in the hole must have been what led to me making a "no dig" decision on the coin before. Despite this "peculiarity," the machine is QUITE capable...
Trust me, it's a very good machine. You won't regret getting one.
Steve
Next time you get out to do some testing try this with some coins too. Take 2 half dollars and lay them flat and see what you get, then turn them on edge and see what you get. Try it with quarters too with 5 or 6 of them and feel they will hit when they are flat, but on edge they may not. I was told this by a older guy that detected a lot as he had a Mark 1 and had me try my Explorer and sure enough it hit them flat, but on edge it does the same as you ring did. I tried this on different detector too, but havent on my Equinox yet, but feel I will get the same results too. If I dont forget and get some time I will try this with my Equinox and my Makro Kruizer on Thursday but will be a air test and not in the ground.
Rick
Rick
dewcon4414
Well-known member
Steve you didnt just say not to worry about it? Id be concerned if my machine didnt hit on big silver on edge. The Exp...... thru CTX all hit on targets on edge and dont wrap around in those conditions. Steve have you tried disc out those top two digits? Wonder how much its considering size?
PHIL C. MOORE
Member
what about Button on edge, anyone try that. I know flat button" sometime or hard too hit on edge.
dewcon4414
Well-known member
Phil.... I think we got spoiled on the BBS/FBSs ability to like silver and dislike iron/bottle caps.... im sure its just a learning curve.
sgoss66
Well-known member
dew --
What are your thoughts, in terms of "discriminating" the top two digits? Curious to know what you are thinking there...
What I mean by "don't worry about it" would be in terms of a buy vs. no-buy decision. To me, this is nothing close to a "show stopper." Given my experience thus far with this machine's ability to pull coins from in-ground scenarios where other machines might struggle to see them, or miss them entirely, the idea that I may likewise "miss" a few targets oriented in a certain way with the Equinox is not a show-stopper for me, by any means. Just like FBSs inability to see tiny gold is not a "show stopper," the Equinox struggling to see large on-edge silver is just something to "know about," and adjust for-- from my perspective.
Steve
What are your thoughts, in terms of "discriminating" the top two digits? Curious to know what you are thinking there...
What I mean by "don't worry about it" would be in terms of a buy vs. no-buy decision. To me, this is nothing close to a "show stopper." Given my experience thus far with this machine's ability to pull coins from in-ground scenarios where other machines might struggle to see them, or miss them entirely, the idea that I may likewise "miss" a few targets oriented in a certain way with the Equinox is not a show-stopper for me, by any means. Just like FBSs inability to see tiny gold is not a "show stopper," the Equinox struggling to see large on-edge silver is just something to "know about," and adjust for-- from my perspective.
Steve
The problem only seems to be with park 1 and field 1 and both beach modes, though from what Im seeing, not as severe in the beach modes as there is some vdi jumps in the high teens and twenties. Park 1 and field 1 both having frequencies weighted in the same or similar manner makes me think this maybe the reason for this effect as all single frequencies in these modes seem to hit fine. From what I saw, depending on the orientation of higher conductor silver rings caused a 3 - 11 on the vdi, so this might not be wrap around. But with two one oz silver bars together on edge I get a sold wrap to about -4 and with a single bar I get mixed results with numbers bouncing from iron to zinc range.
I tried this on coins this morning before I forgot to, this is a air test.
I took my Equinox, the Kruizer and my wife Whites MX7 and use them for this test. Waved a quarters, halves and even a silver dollar across the coil on a indoor test. Each one using a single coin read right on, now I took and turned the coins on edge and the silver dollar was not reading as good. Now I tried 2 of each of the coins and straight flat and notice now the half were not as nice reading and when I turned them on edge the signal wasn't that great and braking up.
Now with 4 halves flat on top of one another the signal was broken up and nulled mostly, the quarters need 5 to not read well and the dime too took 5 of them to not give a good signal and the dimes were the only ones that flat or on edge sounded the same.
Like I had said before a older guy told me about this and I haven't tried this for a few years, so I did the same test with the last 3 machine I got and all did about the same. The MX7 ran the quiet, the Equinox did a little chatter being indoors while the Kruzier was so noise I had to turn down the gain to around 20 so it wouldn't chatter as much. I think it was seeing electrical interference as the breaker box and several outlets were in this room.
Don't know the reason why these do what they do, but seem like the more silver depth wise versus the diameter makes a difference on how the detector sees the target. This is could be why the coin ring read flat and not on angle like the silver dollar read flat, but not very good on edge and why the more halves and quarters stack up the worst the signal got until it was lost in the null.
Now I know of several cases where a bunch of coin were found in one spot, but they maybe spread out more so they are not seen as one group.
Now I would like to have some others try this and see if you can come up with the same thing, just try and add one coin at a time and try flat and then on edge and see how many make a difference. My dimes it too 5 or 6 stacked on top of one another and seem to sound the same on edge..
Rick
I took my Equinox, the Kruizer and my wife Whites MX7 and use them for this test. Waved a quarters, halves and even a silver dollar across the coil on a indoor test. Each one using a single coin read right on, now I took and turned the coins on edge and the silver dollar was not reading as good. Now I tried 2 of each of the coins and straight flat and notice now the half were not as nice reading and when I turned them on edge the signal wasn't that great and braking up.
Now with 4 halves flat on top of one another the signal was broken up and nulled mostly, the quarters need 5 to not read well and the dime too took 5 of them to not give a good signal and the dimes were the only ones that flat or on edge sounded the same.
Like I had said before a older guy told me about this and I haven't tried this for a few years, so I did the same test with the last 3 machine I got and all did about the same. The MX7 ran the quiet, the Equinox did a little chatter being indoors while the Kruzier was so noise I had to turn down the gain to around 20 so it wouldn't chatter as much. I think it was seeing electrical interference as the breaker box and several outlets were in this room.
Don't know the reason why these do what they do, but seem like the more silver depth wise versus the diameter makes a difference on how the detector sees the target. This is could be why the coin ring read flat and not on angle like the silver dollar read flat, but not very good on edge and why the more halves and quarters stack up the worst the signal got until it was lost in the null.
Now I know of several cases where a bunch of coin were found in one spot, but they maybe spread out more so they are not seen as one group.
Now I would like to have some others try this and see if you can come up with the same thing, just try and add one coin at a time and try flat and then on edge and see how many make a difference. My dimes it too 5 or 6 stacked on top of one another and seem to sound the same on edge..
Rick
sgoss66
Well-known member
I am going to re-shoot the video tonight, using NO discrimination, in Park 1 mode, to try and see if it IS a "wrap-around" issue on my ring (TN Mike, you say it might NOT be "wrap," VERY interesting). Off camera, I will also test more thoroughly in other modes, and with some settings tweaks -- iron bias, recovery, etc. I may also try a couple of larger silver coins.
I am working a bit, behind the scenes, with this info, and without saying more about that, I will say that I have some reason to believe the info might make it into the hands of Minelab's Equinox folks. Now, I don't know if there will be any "fix" for this, as I'm not really sure its a "bug," and I'm not implying anything more than the idea that it may be looked at a little further. But, as has been stated here, and by Steve H. on his site, MANY machines have issues/inconsistencies with targets "on-edge." And I also think that maybe, as others have speculated (Rick Kempf a.k.a. lytle78, for one), this "issue" may be a "by-product" of some of the "magic" that happens with the Equinox. In other words, an "unintended consequence" of one of the "strengths" of the unit.
Bottom line, maybe there is some "improvement" that can be made on this "quirk," and maybe not. But I'll continue to try to lay it out in text and video, and we'll see if anything comes of it.
I WOULD like to re-iterate, though, that I really do see this as a minor "imperfection" that by no means diminishes the really fascinating and high-end capability of the machine. It's easy to "fixate" on minor issues, while forgetting about positive attributes, and I don't want to contribute to that. I don't what I'm doing to result in a focus on the "trees," while forgetting about the really, really impressive "forest," here. I simply ask that folks don't mis-interpret any of this as being more "negative" than what it is. Strengths and weaknesses are always a reality; for now, this is one rather minor "weakness" of the Equinox, from my view, among a "plethora" of strengths...
Steve
I am working a bit, behind the scenes, with this info, and without saying more about that, I will say that I have some reason to believe the info might make it into the hands of Minelab's Equinox folks. Now, I don't know if there will be any "fix" for this, as I'm not really sure its a "bug," and I'm not implying anything more than the idea that it may be looked at a little further. But, as has been stated here, and by Steve H. on his site, MANY machines have issues/inconsistencies with targets "on-edge." And I also think that maybe, as others have speculated (Rick Kempf a.k.a. lytle78, for one), this "issue" may be a "by-product" of some of the "magic" that happens with the Equinox. In other words, an "unintended consequence" of one of the "strengths" of the unit.
Bottom line, maybe there is some "improvement" that can be made on this "quirk," and maybe not. But I'll continue to try to lay it out in text and video, and we'll see if anything comes of it.
I WOULD like to re-iterate, though, that I really do see this as a minor "imperfection" that by no means diminishes the really fascinating and high-end capability of the machine. It's easy to "fixate" on minor issues, while forgetting about positive attributes, and I don't want to contribute to that. I don't what I'm doing to result in a focus on the "trees," while forgetting about the really, really impressive "forest," here. I simply ask that folks don't mis-interpret any of this as being more "negative" than what it is. Strengths and weaknesses are always a reality; for now, this is one rather minor "weakness" of the Equinox, from my view, among a "plethora" of strengths...
Steve
littlenugget
New member
"Minor" weakness of Equinox ????? What?????? well if i buy Nox good bye to big old silver rings and maybe , some big silver coins 
sgoss66
Well-known member
OK, here's another video, this time running the same ring, same mode (Park 1), same settings, but this time I also ran a test where I removed all discrimination. With no disc, the machine reveals that it's seeing the ring largely as "iron," giving iron ID and grunting -- ESPECIALLY when it is above-ground. In ground, it's not as pronounced, but in any case, it would appear that "wrap-around" is at least a part of what's going on.
I also ran the on-edge ring with the machine in Park 2 mode, with only marginally better results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CCxSOVWtBo
I also ran the on-edge ring with the machine in Park 2 mode, with only marginally better results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CCxSOVWtBo
littlenugget
New member
Yes i know , but did you know almost half of coins and rings are on Edge, not all are flat in ground. A Bounty hunter can detect very well a flat ring thats not the point